This is my first post here in a long time but having been lurking every day. I am feeling stuck in my recovery with my FWH. He is really trying and doing pretty much everything I could expect from him and seems truly remorseful. One thing I seem to be stuck at is getting past the horrible things he said to me, the ILYBNILWY speech, the coldness towards me, the way he never defended me, our boys or our marriage to ANYONE, the way he just packed his bags and patted his boys on the head as he walked out the door like he was running an errand with no feeling or emotion (he was out for a month before he moved back). He had OW on such a pedestal! It would have been horrible enough for him to have had the affair but then when caught said that he never stopped loving me and never considered leaving me or our boys, but of course he didn't. He has said MANY times how he is sorry for the things he said and the way he acted towards me. He says he hates and is basically disgusted by OW now when he thinks back. My long winded question is this, did You FW's say horrible and hurtful things, give the "speech" and now truly regret it? Do you have true "in love" feelings for your BS now? Do you say and do sweet things because you "feel" the love to do it or because you are trying to make up for what you did in the past? Do you look back at the OP that at the time you were so "In love" with and willing to walk away from your life and your family for with true disgust?

Never having been on that side of the fence, I don't know what to beleive. I hope some of you will have some insight or me

I'm curious about this to some extent but then I believe that the WS actually doesn't fully love their spouse when they return. I think it's a process just like the BS has to slowly take the journey to recovery as well.

My H said the same things to me that you're mentioning. He now says completely different things but never to this day says anything bad about his OW. In fact if I say, "other women," "Betrayal," "EMA" to this day WH gets offened like he was entitled to go outside our marriage if I wasn't fufilling his needs. To this day I resent the fact that he felt this entitlment and hasn't processed it with me.

I don't know what I'm trying to say but I just felt the need to chime in on your thread.

Speaking from being a FWW: I said things that hurt my FWH and wish I never said the things I did. I went as far as telling him in a coffee shop I wanted a divorce. I am sure I said alot of hurtful things to him then.


I do and say things now cause I mean them now. I feel so much love for him FWH. And that we are getting closer as each day goes by. We do have our set backs though. And those stupid down days....ERRRR


I hate the OM that I had my A with. 1. He made me a mess. Made me think I was someone special 2. He would degrade my family time and time again even when I was talkign to my FWH over things on our child. 3. I have dodged him from here to there. He called me one day and I immediatly called my FWH at work who came home right away. We then changed our phone number. I hope to never see the OM or even bump into him again.

I dont know if this helped you at all but I just wanted to answer you...

I don't know if it will be of any comfort, but ALL WSs say and do pretty much the same things. They ALL use the ILYBINILWY speech. They ALL place the OP on a pedestal. That is the way of the WS. It is simply what they do.

The hardest part of recovery is for the BS to get past the hurt feelings from what the WS did and said while in an A. That is why it is so important to remember that your H is NOT the same person as the WH who was having an A.

It is really hard, but true recovery can't happen until the healing takes place. The WS must do everything they can to make amends, but the BS must also work at forgiveness and acceptance of the present in order to have any hope for the future. If you still live in the past, you can't move forward.

I'm NOT saying forgive and forget. I'm saying realize that when actively involved in an A, a WS isn't even the same person they were before OR after. To get beyond the pain, a BS must stop taking it all personally and just accept it as having been what a WS does by their very nature.

Mark

I don't even know the person I was during the A. If I met her (me), I'd think she needed certifying.

Yes, I love my H, and, yes, I do things for him because I want to.

I don't feel disgust. Disgust is a feeling and I have no feelings for the OM. I feel shame and I feel complete indifference.

I never gave "ILYBNILWY Speech"...But OH did I say HORRIBLE and HURTFUL things...I spewed SO MUCH venom and hatefulness that I am ashamed...I spilled my guts to the extreme, horrid detail by horrid detail...the worst part about that was my motive at the time, it was MEANT to hurt...I have the deepest of regret for that...I was a genuine monster then and my remorse over that will probably never go away...There are times when I just breakdown about it all...sometimes with Mr. W, and sometimes when I am alone...


I honestly have in love feelings for Mr. W...There are times when I literally stare at him in awe...The connection between us is very strong and real...I think he is just the most handsome man ever...He makes me laugh like no one else can...He listens to me...He just "gets" me, and I him...So much would have been lost forever if we hadn't stayed together...I believe with certainty that I would have mourned that loss for the rest of my life...


Truly, I don't think about the OP in the context of an actual person anymore...I never refer to him by name, it's always OM or OP and really the only time that he is brought up is in the context of reading and posting on MB...(Both Mr. W and I post here, so we do talk a lot about this place <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)...I feel extreme disgust at my actions from back then...my choices...the fact that I moved my own boundaries little by little and allowed myself to choose something so detrimental to my whole family...I should have known better, and yet I did those things...Much of it still haunts me...During the breakdowns that I mentioned before, I find myself telling Mr. W over and over just how sorry that I am...How amazed I am at his genuine grace...

Hope this helped some...Please feel free to ask me any questions that you'd like!

Mrs. W

I'm going to chime in here, I did give the speech...but I did not have the intentions of being mean or cruel (no name calling, although I know the A in and of itself is cruel). I just said I wanted to be happy and I did not feel I could ever be happy in the marriage. I knew during the A, after the A...all along, that it was wrong, that H didn't deserve it, etc., but I still carried on with it. At the time, it felt like my only chance at happiness and I just couldn't pass it up. I was not however, willing to walk away from my kids, I thought I could just take them with me...WRONG! When I discovered H could keep them from me, that was a turning point. Up to then, I had been willing to take them away from their father to be with someone else, but when it came to leaving them behind, that was a deal breaker, THANK GOD!

I definitely look back on that period with extreme disgust and will still cry about it from time to time. Honestly, I think when a FWS starts doing "sweet" things, it is probably a combination of things, I did feel (do still) horribly guilty but also very grateful that H saved me from myself. Like anyone in this situation, the FWS is sorting through a wide array of emotions, they probably can't explain exactly what they are feeling at any given time. I think what's important here is that the FWS is doing the right thing, even if at first it is out of guilt, over time it will be because of love. The FWS has so much guilt because the have realized how they have brutalized someone they "love." The love is there regardless...?

Mom

Yes I said a lot of things that were very very hurtful to my DH. It was actually before the A, though very much at the heart of the A.
Did I mean them? yes at the time I did and wanted to hurt him. Thats what the A was for as well.

After some time now of help with IC & MC I see things VERY differently. I was in severe depression after our son died and lashed at the person I felt let us down. Of course rubbish but thats the way I was thinking or not as the case turned out.

So do I do things out of guilt or love? well truly a lot was guilt at first though I did realise I loved my H very much even then. As time goes on I do things for love, simply because it gives me pleasure to make him happy, sometimes in just the littlest things.
Its almost physically painful to be apart from him these days. Its not that I need him to live and survive, it's want, a love of all that he is.
I'm not sure when the guilt turned into a wish to do all I could for my H happiness, its blurred and I couldn't give you a thing or time it happened. It just did.
There are trust issues still but I'm ok with that, a simple rule is that I do NOTHING that he doesn't know about..I probably bore him with details lol ... and do nothing as if he's right beside me even when he's away.

I'm very sorry to hear about the loss of your child. I can't even imagine...to get through all that you two have is really a testament to the strength of your marriage.

I never said horrible, intentionally hurtfull things to my H or tried re-write our marital history, but after my H discovered my EA, he told me there were many times he could feel something was wrong – he said I started acting “different” and distant towards him. This was during the time I developed "feelings" for OM. I also acted more distant & aloof towards my H during withdrawal and while I was in a fog. I gave my H the ILYBNILWY speech during one occasion. My H found this extremely hurtful and I truly regret that I ever said that to him. Please read more what I have to say about the “ILYBUILWY speech on this post. It will give you insight from the perspective of a FWW.

I do it because I “feel” the love for him. I would best describe the love I have for my H as stable and mature feelings of commitment, deep care and attachment towards him (which are always present), but where feelings of “passion” and “excitement” are sometimes lacking and comes and goes in natural cycles.

The thought of leaving my life and H for OM never ever crossed my mind, but I do feel very disgusted and very ashamed about certain “boundaries” (inappropriate joking & flirting) I've crossed during my on-line interactions with OM...especially the "boundaries" I've have crossed during e-mail interactions with OM last year when NC was broken.

aussieswife,
I had an A 12 years ago. About 3 years after D-day we had a son who died after 5 days from a birth defect. Needless to say my wife and I were devestated. Obviously my W took it real hard. I thought that since we both had to deal with the loss of our son, that it might bring us closer. We could focus on that recovery together. I tried hard to comfort her as much as I could. I really don't know what I'm trying to say now. Sorry for your loss.

thankyou rb & momaz

I guess we all react differently to such life changing episodes and I know I have many friends here who have suffered this too. Its hard as you know and I am sorry you have also experienced this pain.
I really just wanted to explain why I wanted to hurt my H in such a way and in such depth. It was crazy, I was crazy.

But it doesn't excuse it or help the BS does it? Its now a fact of our life & we have to live with it.The facts are I did say very hurtful things to my H, I did tell him a load of horse hockey, (just been watching MASH repeat <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ) and I can't claim I didn't mean it because at that time I did.
You see, as a FWW, you can give your spouse all the explanations in the world why, some perhaps even making sense, some medical perhaps, perhaps a lot of pure selfishness, they can even understand and accept those explanations, BUT it doesn't take away the hurt of WHAT you said.
That takes time and love and darn hard work by BOTH of you. I sometimes read here and think its so unfair that a BS has to do so much until God willing the WW sees the light through the fog and wants to come home. And then there more work.
I have been granted the grace of forgiveness and I try to forgive myself to be worthy of that gift, and thats hard!
I can understand that many BS may not appreciate that nor feel too much sympathy. I can't blame them. Would I be so gracious if the situation had been reversed? I can't truly say I would be..its so true that you never really know what you will do until you are faced with this horror.

Shack! (Sorry, fighter pilot term, means on target)

One of the reasons I can be so calm during all of this is I know that whatever comes out of my wife's mouth, isn't coming from my wife. The woman I married went away about 6-7 weeks ago. I don't know where she went.

Anything she does and says, I really do not hold it against her.

I just want to thank all of the FWS's that have responded here. It means so much to know that you do hold love for your BS, and this is your main goal now.

I decided, during Plan B, and discussed it with some, that it really SUX that we (BS's) have to do Plan A, then Plan B, then recovery work (basically PLAN A AGAIN) during the withdrawal phase. I told WH yesterday that this is what I must do to recover, and this is MY choice. His choice must be to face his recovery as well as ours. I would much rather be a BS than a WS. I can see why the GUILT alone may keep some WS's from moving toward recovery.