I don't know about me and Sis..but OUR Hs are MOST DEFINITELY ALIKE in regards to being SENSITIVE and INSECURE...and having a strong need for ADMIRATION for this reason...

I have to say that the above statement sums it all up for me. I spend the first five MONTHS after D-day finding myself. Now that I have, and by engaging in further self-discovery with the help of people here, I need to put myself out there. 100%. No holding back, no indulging my Taker (except here on the boards, where my Taker has vented plenty the last few days).

This is what I do. Stop. Breathe. Reflect. Open myself up. Be completely vulnerable to hurt and rejection. Look at WH as a flawed human being who, like all humans, makes mistakes...and doesn't really like to admit that. I know I sure don't like to admit mistakes, which = self-righteousness.

So aside from the fact that WH committed the FAR GREATER wrong, what's the difference? I failed our marriage, too. If I expect him to own up to HIS "mistake," shouldn't I be willing to do the same? Shouldn't I in fact MODEL that for him, out of LOVE? A self-righteous LS would just TELL him. Again, actions speak louder...

And in terms of others' suggestions about what ENs might or might not have been met...what else do I have to go on? WH sure isn't going to spell it out for me.
So if both are equally plausible, which can *I* effect? Especially now...while the A is active? Answer: ONLY the first one. And I believe the only way to do that is a good Plan A...meeting his ENs TOTALLY UNSELFISHLY. And since I don't have the luxury of having WH sit down and do an EN questionnaire for me, I gotta go with what I got. (BTW...again, meeting his needs unselfishly does NOT mean that I've taken responsiblity for his CHOICE to have an A. It means I'm taking responsibilty for doing what I should have been doing all along in our M. I still get very angry...see all of my recent vents.)

I kinda don't get how this can be argued with. (nice grammar). If a BS sits on her bottom and waits for the WS to realize his mistake, it's gonna be a long wait. If you REALLY want to recover, shouldn't you be willing to put yourself out there, to take the chance? SOMEONE HAS TO GO FIRST. And if WH is "in love" with RT, it ain't gonna be him...so I guess it's gotta be me.

And I'm good with that...because I am learning A LOT about myself and LOVE myself for who I am becoming.

You've got it wrong, Nia...

SIS IS A LOT LIKE ME..

I could have written her last post...

Sounds like words straignt out of my mouth...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

fine, i was wrong.
well, i am sure that makes you feel better, mimi.
she is exactly like you. her H is EXACTLY like yours.
her situation is exactly like yours.

LS

You really do not give yourself enough credit!!! This was one of the best posts I've read. Plan A (in my opinion) is exactly what you just described. Putting away your taker and putting yourself out there 100% just like you said. Leading by example.

The way you love him right now, through all of this, through all of his awful words and actions will lead him home. He will remember it and he will love you more for it.

And when your taker starts to rear her head (it will, and it's normal) just remember why you are doing this. Something I would ask myself before I started to do or say something I might regret was this "Is what I'm about to do or say going to bring me closer to my goal?". This would really help me through some of those rougher moments where my taker was fighting for control.


I look forward to what this week will bring.

Gosh, Nia...

I'm not good at recognizing or dealing with SARCASM..

But, I THINK I may have hurt your feelings...

Please tell me DIRECTLY..

And if I did, I'm certainly sorry...

I don't want to come on here and do that..it's not worth it to me..

I really was smiling when I typed that...

It is MY TRUTH that Sis sounded like me in her post...

If you disagree with that, it's PERFECTLY FINE with me...

All that matters to me is that Sis gets the help that she needs...

Cause I'm HAPPY NOW in MY MARRIAGE and I soooo PRAY FOR HER HAPPINESS, too..whether she reconciles with her H or not...

I also PRAY for your HAPPINESS, Nia...

I wouldn't want for your feelings to be hurt IF THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING..

You were NOT CLEAR and I might be making an ASSUMPTION...

you didn'treally hurt my feelings, mimi.
i didn't mean to come off sarcastic...just felt like i (my opinions) was dismissed. no big deal.

1 thing i feel sure about is that LS gets it.
she has clarity and she will be able to figure it all out.

I've been wondering Mimi, which of your ENs was your H failing to meet prior to his decision to become adulterous?

Is he aware of the need to meet those specific needs now? Is he doing a good job?

Pep

And NIA:

Of course, we are not ALL ALIKE..we are all SPECIAL...

But one of the things I most LOVE about MBers is that I feel AT HOME here...there are so many SIMILARITIES in our EXPERIENCES because folks here have BEEN THERE... where lots of others in my REAL LIFE have not..well they don't share it with me..

This is like a SUPPORT GROUP for me...

I so loved reading BRAMBLEROSE'S POST this morning..reminding me that I AM NOT ALONE....

I certainly don't come here to hurt anyone's feelings or to get mine hurt...

Of course that's bound to happen..SUCH IS LIFE...

But that's when I back off...

There's enough of that OUT HERE... for me...

Good question, Pep.

I don't talk much about that.

It's the FAMILY COMMITMENT..my PRIMARY NEED..which seems to be a weird one..but I grew up in such an EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE family...

And my H is doing WONDERFULLY with that now..working hard on making his amends with our sons..

It's a major focus in HIS LIFE right now because he feels that he failed as a parent..

I don't talk much about HIS WORK and mostly talk about myself BECAUSE..I DON'T WANT TO BE DISRESPECTFUL OF HIM..go figure...

Here is the slippery slope ... as I see it ...

a reasonable person in a reasonably decent marriage
(excludes addicts OF ANY KIND ... porn, gambling, gaming, booze, drugs RX or otherwise, etc) ... generally would NOT choose the word "you broke your marriage vows" when telling their spouse about their UNmet emotional needs.

If I tell Mr Pep "You broke your marriage vows to cherish me when you forgot to stop off at the store and buy milk like you said you would." (because domestic support is my top EN) ... not really, but let's just say ....

If I tried to paint this as a BETRAYAL of me EQUAL to adultery ... I come off looking like a milk nazi <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Pep

I have gone back to Lilsis' thread and carefully examined all posts up to 26th December (p20 of 181 pages, on my PC). Nowhere can I find any evidence that LS knew anything about her H having a problem with the marriage, apart from:

[color:"blue"]He is also a HUGE conflict avoider and really a pretty poor communicator when it comes to feelings/emotions. There is only one time (@ 5 yrs ago) that he mentioned to me that he was not feeling happy/fulfilled in our marriage, but he couldn't articulate what was specifically the matter or what I could do. I got incredibly frustrated and blew up at him. ("What do you want from me?") Needless to say, he never said anything again, he just drifted away further and further. I was so busy keeping kids, home, work together that I didn't have time, nor did I feel responsible, for prying open his tightly locked emotional box. [/color]

Everything else that LS has 'specifically said' comes from LS's own appraisal of her personal failings, and her best guess about which ENs she might not have been meeting.

There are another 160 pages of this thread, and I may have missed the part where LS described some kind of pre-A hint about problems dropped by her H. Perhaps someone could point me to it?

TA

I'm going back to an original idea pondered in this post...

the vow to cherish....

I am a huge advocate of cherishing one's spouse is the most underated...

I would have said before it is the one vow that gets the least instruction on it's importance...

but as people pointed out..
the definition is different for people...

here's how I see cherishing my husband in my marriage...

I carry picture of my husband in my heart at all times...

when happy
when angry
when whatever I am...

It is the vision I have seen of him thousands of times...

It is him asleep beside me...

My husband has long eyelashes....that cast a shadow when he sleeps..

this strong man

is still
at peace
tiny in the universe
and very very vulnerable (the most ever in fact)

It is at this time that I can see him as he is long before I ever knew him..
long before I ever loved him..

he is a child of God.....
as he is when awake and in motion
but at night when he sleeps is when I can see that most clearly...

so I carry that picture in my heart at all times...
so that even when most angry
even when most frustrated
even no matter what...

I can picture him as having great value on this earth
and I can cherish him....
as does God cherish us all...
of grave importance and great meaning...


that vision tempers me...because I could never wound that person asleep next to me...
at his most vulnerable..

so I carry that vision always....and cherish the picture

ARK

[color:"green"] We're talking ideas here ... so it really is not about you in particular

what if:

the husband is still failing to meet the FAMILY COMMITMENT need .... if that were true ... how much would you be able to meet HIS need for ADMIRATION?

My point being ... the needs are reciprocal in most marriages (to a certain degree)

one of MY unmet ENs pre-A was financial ... H was trying to fly a venture that may or may not pay off eventually ... but I was afraid that this would eat up our FUTURE financial security ... and hence I did not give him the support for his ideas (the red corvette) ... and he felt (FELT) betrayed ... ~~~> as did I <~~~ which is my point

the disappointments in a marriage are ALWAYS bilateral .... and often connected to each other ...


which is where POJA for big decisions comes in ...
Pep

i tried to find it too.
I have been told several times to go back and read the entire thread....that i missed information on LS's thread.....and i still don't find what i am looking for.
i think people just read between the lines differently. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

sorry, i missed this post earlier.
LS has mentioned that she thinks she has failed her H in the admiration EN.
she mentioned a few times that she thinks she didn't fulfill his SF needs.
she mentioned she did not think she met his RC needs.

my perception is that she may have OVERDONE the DS needs and FC needs a bit...which left him disrespected.....and like a failure in some ways.

this has been a great post to read.

i too have often struggled like MrsW posted at the start of this post. There was a huge amount of neglect occuring in my marriage. DH has admitted this himself. He felt he was not getting his needs met and therefore he was not going to worry about mine.

He chose to disconnect.

He chose to got comfortable being disconnected.

and he chose to stay that way.

he chose to do NO action to improve our marriage and fullfill his vows.

IMHO, he completely broke his vows to love and cherise me.

this is NOT a justification of my actions. my actions are mine to own.

just another person's opinion on the topic.

Ding..Ding...Ding..NIA found the answer... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sigh.


This tells us nothing about LS's H's emotional requirements prior to the A. It tells us that LS has made a stab at working out what those requirements might have been, based on her own perceptions and guilt feelings. She may be miles off track.

It also tells us about another poster's analysis of the problem. LS's thread is not short of such analyses. The only concerned party whose view we don't know is...LS's WH.

BSs are often eager to take responsibility for letting the WS down - because it gives them a delusion of power and control, and reduces the emotional burden of rage.

TA

it also provides a working "target" to shoot for

Pep