is somebody saying they don't?
i was thinking this discussion had more to do w/ self discovery.

noodle,

help me figure out why I was so willing to take the blame... i still struggle w/ figuring out why it is so difficult for me NOT to feel resposnible.

i think we might be more alike than you realized.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have tried to get my H to tell me what I DID to hurt him.
i wanted to know so i could make ammends w/ him.
he always goes back to stories of his childhood and how he felt emotionally abandoned and unloved.

???

this is not about you Mimi
this discussion is about ideas/ideals/conflict/measurements/incrimental slippage/etc

this is a general throwing out ideas & seeing what sticks FOR us ourselves

This was true of my H's childhood as well as mine...

nia, if you did things that hurt your DH then you should take responsiblity for that and ONLY that.

but his choice to respond to his life experience the way he did is his to own.

do you have a hard time accepting that??

do you think that if you had only been a better wife, he might not have done this?

it reminds me of how i used to feel with my parents... if only i was a better child....

there are plenty of spouses out there that are not happy, but they do not choose to cheat.

if your spouse was once such person, you would be having this internal fight about his actions. '

but hopefully you would still be having an internal fight about your own.

your actions are what you can control and are what you own!!!

in the last post you wrote... i felt intense pain. i hope you can figure out how to come to terms with it all.

Mimi...sighing...

I know, Pep...

This is TOUCHING ON SOMETHING EMOTIONALLY in me...

mine too. BIG TIME!!!

PEP:

How do I know that it's touching on something?

I've been wanting to FLEE from this....

I'm PRACTICING hanging in here in the discussion.

Yes we do.

When I read LSs thread I see two players.

LS and RT.

WH is portrayed as a clueless schmuck who can't find his @ss with both hands unless he is manipulated into basically Forrest Gumping his way out of an affair and into his marriage by excercising RTs plan in reverse.

Will it work? Probably. It worked before and he hasn't exactly gained wisdom since then has he?

So..how you get 'em is how you keep em.

I could take responsibility for my Hs feelings.

I know enough about ENs to be a world class heavyweight manipulator if I wanted to pursue the title.

Just masturbate here and there and viola...feelings of happiness.

Yet I can't respect someone who would allow me to take that role or shoulder that burden or frankly fall for it.

In the final analysis my core belief is that your feelings are your problem and it is your decision what you will do about them.

This much belated after the fact "you didn't do xyz" is just appalling.

There was ample opportunity for him to enforce a boundary and protect his needs yet he failed to do so.

Then he failed to enforce another protective boundary by allowing a usurper to climb the fence.

He isn't stupid is he? He did know what was going on.

He was tempted...just plain old ordinary everyday tempted and now not only does he want to call wrong right...he also wants LS too foot the bill.

Typical ws.

it's OK to step out of the room until you have a better sense of what is ticking you off ... or NOT! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

i know all this....logically i understand it....but, i still sometimes struggle w/ how i feel. not always, but i would say it is my own little demon, if you know what i mean... i am getting better but i have not managed to conquer it yet.

yes...i do often FEEL like if i had been a better wife/lover whatever.he would not have done what he did.
interestingly enough, i NEVER felt that w/ my parents.
but, i do think my H felt that w/ his.
i am not sure what that means.

what did i say that made you feel intense pain....can you explain?
thanks.

he might have been happier in the M had you been a "better wife"

and he still may have made the decision to cheat

not in your locus of control

But this is not just SOMEONE... this is HER HUSBAND..whom GOD has chosen for her..FORSAKING ALL OTHERS..ahhh..to LOVE AND TO CHERISH..until parted by DEATH...



MY PROBLEMS ARE MY H'S PROBLEMS..AND HIS MINE...I do not have this independent thinking, separatist view of marriage...WE ARE A TEAM...



I agree with you on this...BUT..



with this I see that you do not agree with Dr. Harley's viewpoint that TEMPTATION RESULTS FROM UNMET UNEMOTIONAL NEEDS..clearly stated by him in the first chapter of HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS...

to me that sounded like a painful plea from someone who hurts time after time about the same thing.

something i am really good at doing!!!!

i second what pep said... he might of still chosen to do what he did.

it's so hard to be on the other side of the scenerio than all of you women.

because i realize i am also saying, i might have still chosen to do what i did, regardless....

and i just can't figure out how i became to be a person so different than the person i planned to be...

i agree.
and i instictively always knew this, but struggled w/ my own feeling of......i don't know... unworthiness, i guess.

and that is why i struggle with the BS accepting the responsibility for what led to the affair......i would bet we have ALL been tempted and at times when our ENs were not being fulfilled.....still, not ALL of us cheated.
WHAT do you think is so different about us?

my point exactly. i don't belong here...

wait a minute.....mimi mentioned again...temptation results from unmet emotional needs.

so, what about the BS whose ENs were not being met but we chose NOT to give in to temptation.
why, do you think? Because our Spouse Was meeting our needs better than we were meeting thiers??

i doubt that. i think we had better boundries for ourselves....better values maybe.
when i think of that, it is easier for me NOT to feel responsible.

no,no....please don't leave.....you are very important to this discussion.

No I do not believe that temptation originates from unmet needs.

As for respect...if I can't respect my H we have nowhere to go but divorce court.

I absolutely believe that he [or anyone] is responsible for their own feelings.

If you need more SF it is your job to draw the boundary around it.

If you need DS...ditto.

If you got your little baby feelings hurt and you just won't be right without an apology then it is your job to communicate this clearly.

Failure to recognize these issues or act on them appropriately is only ever our own individually.

After all..if YOU don't know what you need or how to get it then how can you reasonably expect anyone else to?

When we start making excuses we are on the wrong side of the fence..mmanaging someone elses feelings and failures.

he didn't feel safe...his FOO issues...blah blah blah...

Do you know anyone who DOES feel safe in conflict while exposed or has no unresolved hurts or losses?

He failed. That is all. People fail. Whether he cowboys up and faces his choices or cowers in the dark with his mistress manager and activities director is his decision.

Do you interpret this to mean that temptation results ONLY from unmet emotional needs?

TA