What day are you on? I just did the cleanse back at the middle of January.

**thud** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[color:"green"] stolen from AJ_ ... because this is just so awesome! [/color]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

High school chemistry taught me a very valuable lesson: When certain
substances come into close contact they can form a chemical reaction. I
proved that one day during my senior year of high school when I dropped
a jar full of pure sodium off a bridge into a river and nearly blew up
the bridge. You'd think I would have at least had enough sense to step
off the bridge!

What I've learned since then is that many people don't respect the laws
of chemistry any more than I did back then. They mix volatile
ingredients without giving much thought to the explosion that could occur. In
particular, many married people don't understand that a chemical reaction
can occur with people other than their mates. Don't misunderstand me
here-I'm not just talking about sexual attraction. I'm referring to a
reaction of two hearts, the chemistry of two souls.

This is emotional adultery-an intimacy with the opposite sex outside
the marriage. Emotional adultery is unfaithfulness of the heart. When two
people begin talking of intimate struggles, doubts or feelings, they
may be sharing their souls in a way that God intended exclusively for the
marriage relationship. Emotional adultery is friendship with the
opposite sex that has progressed too far.

Often it begins as a casual relationship at work, school or even
church. A husband talks with a female co-worker over coffee and shares some
struggles he's facing with his wife or kids. She tells of similar
problems, and soon the emotions ricochet so rapidly that their hearts ignite
and can ultimately become fused together as one. To those who have
experienced it, this catalytic "bonding" seems too real to deny.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[color:"green"] because ~feelings~ ARE chemical-neuronal activity [/color]

[color:"green"] and that spontaneous ignition AJ is talking about, is not about the MARRIAGE being fulfilling , or not ... [/color]

[color:"red"] " In particular, many married people don't understand that a chemical reaction
can occur with people other than their mates."[/color]

[color:"green"]... THIS is about a lack of a good fence protecting the marriage ~~~> leaving the gate open for an affair of the heart [/color]

which is why ARKIE won't have an affair ... she carries a picture of her H in her heart at all times ... and THAT functions as a fence for her M

Pep

Pep,

Just began reading this thread, so sorry for the late response.

Vows - what a topic.

Again with the "in my field", but I have to say there's some interesting stuff here, regarding the taking of vows and the perceptions "in my field".

Vows are subject to interpretation of the TAKER, and idiosyncracies and peculiarities of sociological/personal issues, as well as cultural issues within the vow taker.

So, let me give an example, just for thought.

A highly religious man takes vows of celibacy and silence in becoming a monk. The likelihood of his follow-through is very high, if he has a religious background, and personal inner motivations that support his beliefs that these vows are very important to his personal growth and further religious experience.

Conversely,
If the man were taking the vows to hide his identity from a criminal investigation, what do you suppose the likelihood of his keeping the vows would be?



Regarding marital vows, we would expect to get an EXTREMELY wide range of response to what the taking of vows really means. I would say that among those responses you might find:

1. Vows are simply a traditional part of a ceremony, and really don't mean a lot. Marriage is a legal arrangement, just a "piece of paper".

2. Vows are sacred and holy, and to be taken with the name of the Lord in your heart. Kept as though they are the most precious gift given to another.

3. Vows are taken, but people are human and we will probably have to deal with it if we break them.

4. We take vows when we are married. Have you ever read them? Don't they say something like the wife has to do what the husband says????? I can't remember what my vows said.


And lots of stuff in between there..........you get the point!

The problem with vows is that we each enter marriage with an idea of the vows, and their meaning. (Or, for those in Vegas, with the intent that if it doesn't work out, the quickie divorce joint is just up the block...) This leads to problems later, especially with RT-types, who like to "hedge" their bets. "Well, you know, those vows are just tradition, they are archaic, and besides, YOU didn't really keep your end on the the 'cherish' part, because on Valentine's day in 1959 you didn't cherish me, did you? Which means you BROKE your vows first...."


Lots of wiggle room.

Which makes the idea of pre-marital counseling a very good one!!!!! Clear-cut communication on exactly what is expected, and what those vows mean.

SB

Pep,

I hated that chemistry post then and I hate it now.


Then those married people must be blazing idiots!!!!!!

Or they live in a cave or in Shreks swamp. Or they are completely physically and mentally and morally repulsive.

Just because I said I do doesn't mean I am oblivious to the outside world and other women. Heck my FWW has had men hit on her in my presence and vise versa.

So there is always a danger.

The main thing is when you see there may be a chemical reaction you do not continue to see what happens. You walk away and step off of the dang Bridge so you don't get blown up.

Every A didn't start because of the chemical reaction or a lack of understanding that it may occur. It started with someone thinking they could controll a volitile situation.
Or two people that thought they could. Or one who thought they could and one who wanted to do everything they could to prove them wrong.

I was single once. If the girl was hot enough I could find something in common. I could be her soulmate. It isn't that hard to find something in common with someone if you want too.

The chemical reaction in my pants made it's way to my soul and my heart.

Pep,

I see the difference between not KEEPING the vow and not BREAKING the vow, yes.

Keeping the vow implies an effort to maintain the relationship and marital vows - loving, caring, etc.

Breaking the vow implies purposeful or willful acts which go in direct opposition to the marriage and those vows.

So NOT KEEPING the vows would mean that a person reduced the effort in loving and caring.

NOT BREAKING the vows would mean that a person did not purposely do something in direct opposition to the vows.

However, I would call this "splitting hairs", and if I saw it in an argument or a writing, I would have to analyze it as an effort to utilize semantics to cover up something, or justify something. Actually, the "not keeping" the vows could also have the literal translation of "breaking" vows, and therefore means the same thing.....but a liar may try to escape in utilizing my argument above.

Man, the things I could do to make a buck.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
SB

Speaking of chemical reactions, I mentioned on TifferNY's thread that I bumped into the OM (the old b/f) twice during my marriage in circumstances that could have possibly led to an A. The meetings could have led to meeting again, agreeing to talk further etc etc but the thought never crossed my mind/entered my head.

Fast forward a number of years from those meetings and it was from a third meeting that the A started. What was the difference between the two earlier meetings and the third meeting?

You just gave me an idea (horrors)

have you noticed that your personal perception of your veryown vows oh-so-many-years-ago ... has CHANGED over time????

I was just thinking about what you wrote & I realized my vows have become MORE precious to me over time ... I can't be the only one, can I?

.... nah !

Pep

No doubt! That post of Ark's re: "cherishing" is among the most beautiful things I have read. It was just beautiful Ark...I read it to GB last night and he thought it was awesome too.

not the only one.
there is another thread about marriage being a covenant or a contract.
i mentioned i was married young and didn't fully understand the commitment of marriage but it always FELT more like a covenant to me.

20 years later, it can say i understand the commitment and i consider it a covenant.
i understand the marriage vows on a much deeper level and they mean more to me than ever.

OT to Pep:

Pep, I have to tell you that I had the strangest dream the night before last and you were in it. It is so strange that you showed up in my dream because for some odd reasom I never dream about anyone on MB.

In my dream, our town was having Mardi Gras and I took a walk down to the festivities by myself...just mosying around the vendors and watching the parades when out of the corner of my eye I saw YOU. You were standing on the corner of a building just leaning against it watching everyone. For a second I thought about going over and saying hi, but then I decided I would just catch up with you later on MB and didn't really need to stop by and talk. I kept wondering though if you would recognize me and get ticked cuz I didn't stop.

Anyway I ended up ducking into a small mall so you wouldn't see me and ran into my DD who was skipping school. All by herself down at Mardi Gras without a care in the world and I was so upset that she could have gotten herself hurt I woke up.

That's when I remembered the book you had suggested at Susan's suggestion for you to read("Don't Dress Your Six YO Up Like a Skank". You know I completely forgot about it and didn't order it.

You hunted me down in my dream to remind me to get the book and stay on top of good parenting, I guess.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

On the off chance that you may be misunderstanding I'll add a little more explanation.

It's not that I don't HAVE feelings it's that I don't place high VALUE on them or regard them with much respect.

My feelings can change on a dime, be unreasonable, and lead me in the wrong direction very easily.

A recent example of misguided empathy...I empathized with Saddam Hussein...seriously...I disregarded his multitude of victims and crimes and was completely hyperfocussed on how scared I would be if I was gallows bound.

I was ready to object to justice because it creeped me out.

Empathy is NOT always a good thing or at the very least it needs to be regarded with a strong measure of discernment...it must be challenged or it will run amuck.

Feelings also seem to be very self important don't you think?

Do you notice that when you have a strong feeling...you also tend to think that the rest of the world should care?

Yet reality is quite indifferent. I can be as mad, sad, glad, happy, awed as I care to be and you know what happens?

Absolutely nothing at all.

They are of no consequence except what I permit or create.

They are therefore trivial ...I see no other conclusion.

I agree, and it seems to me that this is maturity. It is also taught that to be enlightened, to really be able to be all that we were meant to be we must disassociate ourselves from our feelings. Projection is a result of feelings, and gets in the way of seeing things clearly.

This is still very difficult for me to do, but very necessary for all the reasons Noodle stated.

~feelings~

last night our son was over for dinner

after eating, my H brought up something to son ... something son did not do ... visit Grandma when he was up her way ... H told son that not visiting Grandma was a disappointment

son's reaction : "You don't have to get mad and yell at me!"

he was NOT yelling
he was NOT mad

it was all son's perception ... he was ~feeling~ yelled at ... and actually, the exposure of H's disappointment was really softly done

so, the feelings of being yelled at were real ... but his feelings were not congruent with the reality of what happened

this is the best illustration I can think of at the moment

WEAVER !!!!! HOW DID I LOOK? WAS I DRESSED LIKE A SKANK? LOL

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I just read this wonderful book called THE TENDER HEART, written by a psychologist who has focused his career on studying those with SENSITIVE PERSONALITIES. He insists, based on his research, that this is a GENETIC PREDISPOSITION. Some folks are TENDER-HEARTED and NATURALLY higly EMPATHETIC whereas others are TOUGH. I think that's what was going on yesterday and you openly stated this Noodle. I have difficulty with TOUGHNESS because I am HIGHLY TENDERHEARTED.If this psychologist's premise is correct and it is very convincing to me, that is why we may view things differently, Noodle. It's a DIFFERENCE, not meaning that either of us is better or worse than the other.

I will own that this is MY ISSUE and I certainly don't want to be judgmental if this does not fit with you but that is what I am hearing. I'll speak my truth. I CANNOT TUNE OUT OTHERS' FEELINGS and do not want to live my life that way. That is my strong suit, being EMPATHETIC, and I must use this GIFT in my work each day in caring for very, very sick people...I've LEARNED how to manage this so that it is USEFUL and HELPFUL to me and others and not HARMFUL as it has been in MY PAST.

yes you do

selectively

or you'd be overloaded and outward focuced ... inability to tune out selectively leads to brain static ... you tuned out evil OW's feelings good enough to fight her !

Pep:

This is ME trying to say that I do it SELECTIVELY... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You explained it BETTER....

Thanks.