Hi. Hoping to not get things virtually thrown at me here as I am the one who had an affair. It is over - I am in the very beginning and incredibly painful stages of NC, and have so many questions.

My H left almost a year ago, D is to be final in weeks, and now I am thinking we did almost NOTHING to try & save our marriage - because it was easier for me to let him leave than to have NC with the other guy. Is really still easier - I have cried much much more over the loss of the guy than the loss of my husband - stupid, huh?

But this is where we are and I really feel like I need to try & reconcile with him if possible. That said, I have a few questions:

1.) This EN thing... he and I are POLAR opposites on the list, and what is most tricky is my top 3 needs are on the "his" list, and his top 3 are on the "hers" list... and I really struggle with that. I have read the thing about how to meet needs for affection, and honestly, all the stuf fon that list makes me want to puke! Which I know I can learn to do, but the problem is, he wants to do those things to/for me and I want to run away!

2.) He is very heistant to do the counseling thing because he feels like if I had never cheated we wouldn't need counseling - everything would have been perfect. Which is, obviously, crazy.

3.) EN #2 for me is sexual fufillment - and I am seriously doubtful that my husband can ever meet this need, and I KNOW he can never meet it in the way the OM did.... and the A has been going on for 4 years. I don't know what to do about this because it is a difference in fundamental thinking about what sex is, what it means, etc.

4.) I have such difficulty respecting him for several reasons - I tend to view the whole "hold my hand" thing as weak and juvenille, I tend to find his "gentle" approach to sex undesireable, and I am and always will be the bread-winner of our family. When we tried it the other way, we lost our house. So how can I stay married to someone I don't respect?

This is my struggle. I KNOW I have to have NC with the OM, I KNOW the right thing to do is try and reconcile with my H (we have a D), but I am not sure how on Earth I am ever going to be able to meet his needs without having zero of my own met... and no matter how selfless I try to be, that kind of "empty bank" WILL send me looking around again - I just know it!
Help!

No, actually with you attitude about your H not ever being able to meet your sexual needs and the "hold my hand" thing as being juvenille... the best thing you can do is let your H find someone that is more suited to a loving and caring relationship.

You asked how can you be married to someone you don't respect.... bottom line is... how can you BE someone no one would respect?

You sound like a terribly selfish woman... and not because you had an affair. Let the poor man find someone else and leave him alone before you hurt him anymore.

I hope this helps.

If your husband has left a year ago..

why aren't you with the man you had the affair with...

why are you in no contact with him?

ARK

Bossy,

Welcome to MB. Sorry you have to be here. NC is not easy. I see the affair is over, and now you are considering reconciling with your soon-to-be-ex-husband. But, reading your post, it seems only half-hearted on your part.

I see you have a daughter, I have two. They are grown now, and I'm glad you are considering her in your decision to try to make the marriage work. That said, I confess that what you have written doesn't exhibit exuberence in that direction quite yet.....you are hedging your decision. I don't know that you are quite in the "I really want to save my marriage" camp yet, are you?????

The first thing I want to say is that I don't usually throw 2X4's, but I do need to point some things out that just jump out at me about what you've said here. If you want to reconcile the marriage, the place to start is with YOU, not with him. The only thing you control is yourself. If you go in with that knowlege, you can make things much better.

I would like for you to do some reading about Disrespectful Judgements on this website. You talk about his approach to sex and "holding hands" as "weak and juvenile" - this is a DJ. Consider that people have differences, and that having a difference isn't right or wrong, just DIFFERENT. I would like to point to holding hands specifically as an expression of affection - picture if you will, two 90 year old people sitting on the porch quietly watching a summer storm. They've been married for 70 years, and both are in failing health. The storm brings back so many memories, and one reaches over and takes the hand of the other, and they sit, quietly together, holding hands. They say nothing, because after 70 years, the simple touch of their hands says it all......

Not weak, and not juvenile.

Please start over on your thoughts about sex, and the "gentle" approach. Try to understand that love, sex, and connection can come through many channels, and can take a rough approach or a gentle one - or many in between - and NONE ARE THE ONE AND ONLY CORRECT ONE. It is in the hands of the lovers to decide, and to work out. My advice is to take his hand during lovemaking, and guide his hand to SHOW him what you want - teach him. He can't read your mind, anymore than you can read his. It also would not surprise me to find that he is reticent to approach you in sex because you've probably made it clear to him that he is not meeting your needs - have I hit the mark here?

I also note there are financial respect issues here. This being the 21st century, I have to question what difference it makes which gender makes more money........and exactly what the ability to generate money has to do with respect. This particular year in fact, my husband had cancer and I out-earned him. Double, in fact. Women's liberation in the 60's made the point that everyone should be equal REGARDLESS OF GENDER - so let's not make reverse discrimination the issue. Give that some consideration, are you guilty of this? Does the fact that a woman makes less money than a man make her less of a woman????? NOOOOO....Please. Step back a moment here. This is probably the biggest 2X4 I have ever given on this website, and I have not ever given one before. To disrespect anyone on the basis of what amount of money they earn is the equivalent of racism at its worst. Think about that for awhile - and you will see the analogy there. (You should be honored, I am gentle in my gifting of 2X4's - I tried to line it with foam...and a warning to step back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

Throughout your post, I see an overtone of your questioning of his manhood. To wit:

"My top 3 needs are on the "his" list, and his top 3 are on the "hers" list"

"I am seriously doubtful that my husband can ever meet this (SF) need, and I KNOW he can never meet it in the way the OM did"

"I am and always will be the bread-winner of our family"


I wonder if the fact that you see him as "less than a man" has a direct impact on your interactions with him, and I will tell you that it will result in him reacting to you much differently - sexually included. I believe that you will not be able to reconcile with him if you do not have respect for him as a human being, as a man. Examine your behavior and thinking in this regard - if you truly wish to reconcile, you must drop your "I don't have any respect for him" talk and thinking, gather up yourself, and fix that, pronto.

Another thing you need to see is that YOU are the person who had the affair, and that despite the fact that there may have been difficulties in the marriage, having an affair IS NOT a solution, and difficulties in the marriage ARE NOT an excuse to have an affair. You don't seem to own YOUR OWN blame in what has happened in the marriage here!

Can you list for me, FIVE THINGS YOU HAVE DONE BESIDES THE AFFAIR that messed up the marriage? I want 5 things that you have done PRIOR to the affair. These would be things that led to the state of the marriage being such that you would have an affair. I would like to see your thoughts on that.


What I see in your first post is you pointing a finger at your husband, and saying - "Look, he's not much of a man. So I don't respect him. He's not good in bed. He doesn't earn much money. He's a failure. But, for the sake of my kid, I'm going to make some attempt at reconciliation. But, I'm hedging my bets...............because I KNOW this man won't be able to meet my needs anyway."

That's why I say that I don't believe you are quite fully in the camp of wanting to save your marriage - what you've written belies that. So, let's try again. For your next post, list the five things you did wrong before your affair. Let's start there.

And sorry for the 2X4. Hope it didn't hurt too much. But honesty is the only way you are going to come through this fog!

SB

It takes courage for you to be here. i for one am glad you came.
you should definately answer ark's questions. i have a comment to add to them..


are you saying "they arent getting met NOW", or "they wont ever get met" ? If you meant the first is.. well... thats's unfortunate. But figure you owe your husband 4 years of not having yours met, since thats how long your affair was.
For most men.. if he's willing to reconcile with you... it probably wont take that long. but setting that expectation with yourself, may help you deal better with however long it does take.

If you meant the second.. well, that's what we call a "disrespectful judgement" around here. you cant know that he will never meet them. claiming that you know that he does, would be judging him, and judging him unfairly to boot.

in the sex department... you're saying you want him to be dominant in the bedroom? sounds like your relationship has a loong way to go before that would even be possible, because you are by your own admission, "bossy". you've trained him that you're the boss, not the other way around.


as far as "breadwinner".. are you saying you cant respect a man who earns less money than you do? if so, why did you marry him?

one positive thing i'll say though; you're right on the counselling.


[on affection....]
"the problem is, he wants to do those things to/for me and I want to run away! "

aha.... perhaps this is actually an opportunity to express YOUR needs to him. I think this sounds kinda like how some women react to sex. their needs arent getting met, so they dont feel intimate enough to have sex.
In contrast... you have a high sex drive.. you want the ACT.. but you arent ready for physical intimacy. To you, this affection stuff is more "intimate" to you than sex, perhaps. And so, you need to have emotional intimacy, before you have physical intimacy with him.

but all this may be premature... you need to indicate clearly whether or not your husband is currently interested in reconciliation.

schoolbus had a great post. it made me think of one more thing that would be relevant.

i've been hearing ads about the "love and respect" marriage conferences. Their core idea being that women need love, and men need respect. The targetted-for-women ad, can be summarized as,
"Dont you want your husband to love you, even when you act 'unloveable' ? In that same way, give him respect, even if you think he doesnt deserve it".

I think that's very appropriate for you.
A man who feels respected, will feel strong in himself.
A man who feels disrespected in his own house, will feel and probably act weak.

schoolbus nice summation.



Bossy....the fact that you searched this site out and have posted means you know you need help. thats a good sign. get ready for the 2x4's but whatever you do, don't go away, and don't be afraid to post the truth. that is the only way you will come to terms with what you have done to your life.

ok, we need more information....where is OM? why did you leave him? or did you?? if you KNOW that your STBXH will not be able to meet your needs, why are you interested in reconciliation? are you just going there because you can't be alone?? because you are afraid?? are you in counseling? have you admitted to yourself that having an A was wrong? or do you think you were justified??

IMHO you sound deeply intrenched in denial...you need to do some soul searching...bringing your M back from the abyss will take an enormous amout of belief in yourself and your husband...I don't hear any of that in your post.

I was completely ready for the 2x4s & not at all surprised. Yesterday someone said to me, "If one person calls you a jacka** shrug your shoulders, if three people call you a jacka** buy a saddle!"... I'm saddle shopping!

Here's the thing - my story is so long.

I met my H when we were both in high school. He was my first real relationship - we fell in love - the sweet kids kind of love. I was going to school out of town, so we did the long-distance thing, when I came home, we broke up for a year, then I chased him down <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> and we got back together. My parents moved out of state, I stayed here, started college, etc. He dropped out of school, and I followed him soon thereafter - I was spending ALL if my time wiht him, no family, no friends, and no reason to go to class... We had fun together, a lot of fun, and eventually decided to get married. Meanwhile, I was feeling very guilty for not having finished college and convincing myself that my "good job" was going to take care of things. He and I both have a hx of poorly discipled decision-making.

After we were married, I started moving up the ladder at my work making an impressive salary for someone w/o a degree - eventually this became an issue because for me to continue growing professionally, we would have to consider relocating. He was completely unwilling to discuss this because then he would have to move away from his parents and that would make him sad. I suppose we should have had an adult conversation at that time about what our 5,10,15 year plan was going to look like, what we expexted our lifestyle to look like, etc. (actually we should ahve done that before we got married, but jeez, we were 22!).

When our daughter was born I waited and watched for him to show some signs of responsiblity growth. For heaven's sake, he drove us home form the hospital - infant car seat in back, post-op me in the front - of a Mitsubishi Eclipse! Have you ever seen the back seat of one of those things? Anyway, for some reason, we decided it would be a good idea for me to stay home with our daughter. We talked about, since I made double his income, should HE be the one to stay home, but he "couldn't handle that". So I quit my job, we got rid of the fancy car, and we actually made it for a while and were really happy.
But then it became apparent that the job he had was just NOT going to meet our needs, and if we wnted me to stay home, he would have to get a different job. I tried to "Gently" help - I would look for openings, make suggestions - but he was completely unwilling to look at most of the things that met his educational status and experience, AND he was uninterested in returning to school. So, we lost our house. And I went back to work.
And there I met the OM.

I love my husband, I have never stopped. But we had a BABY who was looking to us to feed and clothe and HOUSE her, and I just really struggle with the fact that he WOULD NOT do what needed to be done to ensure our family's security.

Now, he has a good-paying job, but he works nights. Before he left, he had switched back to nights again, which was just a really bad idea. But he prefers nights because that's "where the action is".

It is not how much money he makes that i struggle with - because i really don't care - I know my income will always be sufficient, it is that when he was charged with - when he ASKED for the responsibility of providing for his family, he rfefused to do somehting that might involve working weekends, or long hours, because it made him uncomfortable. In his words, he would rather we live in a tiny apartment and he get to be with us all the time than live in a (modest 3 bdrm) house and he works 8-10 hours a day.

5 things I have done wrong:
1.)In recent years, I became highly critical. This WAS NOT the case in the early years of the marriage - in fact, I resisted doing or saying anything that would hurt him.
2.) I helped to develop a pattern in our relationship where I "erased" everything that did not work between us, personality characteristics, different goals, everything, so we could prevet the drama of him getting all upset in a "discussion" and being "hurt".
3.) I gained some weight right after we got married and expected him to want me anyway - then when I got fit again, I was annoyed that he would suggest I was sexy then, AND now - clearly confusing impossible to win message mixing.
4.) I did not talk to him like an adult, did not sit him down and say "Look, either we move so I can have a job that pays the bills, or you get a job that pays the bills." I should have.
5.) I stopped encouraging him professionally because it always seemed to make him feel pressured instead of encouraged.


I know that differences are just that - and not right or wrong. I got so scared. I handed my life and my daughter's life to him - he ASKED me to give him a chance to be the leader in our home, he ASKED me to let him take care of us... and he did not. And not because he couldn't - because he wanted a job that felt "big" and "exciting" and "interesting". I have never been so scared in all of my life. I was trying to play creative games - how can I spend the least amount of money possible and still feed us? things like that. I would add up the difference between what we were bringin in and what wsa going out and show him - and nothing. When I went back to work we had this whole conversation where I said, "Please don't let my working part time be a reason you stop looking." It was. The DAY I started working he quit looking. ANd if the business he worked for hadn't closed, he would still be there today.

I KNWO I have been awful and I KNOW the A was wrong - completley not justified. Never could be. But I was OVERWHELMED when I met this guy.

The OM wa positioned to leave his wife about 3 weeks ago and then rather suddenly decided to stay and try to make things work. He does not want to leave his family, and I don;t want him to. I know it would not work - not with all the baggage - and I know he would be miserable without his kids. And, I know he loves his wife.

I am "on the fence" about reconciling with my husband. He says he can't trust me - well - I CAN'T TRUST HIM! The A was inexcusable - I GET that. I have said it was wrong and I will make sure my H knows how sorry I am for the pain I have caused. But I don't know how to get back what was lost. I gave up so many dreams so many plans because I wanted to preserve our relationship, because I didn;t want him to be "upset". And now, there is just big ugly pain everywhere.

So, bring the 2x4s - I KNOW I have been a selfish b. I KNOW I have emasculated him to no end over the past four years... but for 13 years I have done everything I know how to do to pick him up and stroke his ego and make him feel ok with who he is and I am exhausted.

It would have been GREAT if he and I could have had any type of adult conversation, but we can't - even now. If he is whining about not having enough $$ to pay temporary child support and I point out that he had enough $$ to buy a $30,000 sports car two days after he left - the I'm being a b****. If I suggest that it might be a good idea for him to not have the new girlfriend spening the night on the same nights our 6 year old D is there, then I'm being a bossy b****. Myabe it's my fault because I never made us live through adult conversation and interaction early on, but now that we are in our late 30s I don't know how to fix it. Not any of it. So, I'm hoping my counselor has eaten her Wheaties!

I am not afraid of being alone - I ma afraid of not having done everyhting we can to look at ourselves and look at the marriage and make sure we know things are irreconcilable. THAT is why I'm seeking reconciliation wiht my husband - because I just let him leave without even trying and at the end of the day, that's unfair to us all.

reality check: "OUR" needs... or YOUR wants?


If that is an actual stable lifestyle given your current income...there's nothing wrong with that. you dont need more than that.

Sounds like you want more, and you're unhappy without it. Ok, time to negotiate. But be fair and honest, both with your husband and yourself, and identify it for what it is: your want. Not a "need".



err, what? what possible reason do you have to not "trust" him? you havent said anything about that.


Sounds like he's already moving on, and isn't interested in reconciliation with you.

Also sounds like you have a mentality that isn't going to make him any more interested in it with you. you sound like you expect him to drop everything in his life, and do his utmost to make things work out with you, just because you dont have anywhere else to go any more.

Wake up call: you're going to be divorced, and he doesn't owe you anything from here on out.


Go find stories about betrayed spouses. Go read up on the ****** they go through, going through a pure, unselfish "plan A", for 3-6 months, putting their spouse first, even though they're being treated like #### by them. Think about how they put in 100% effort to try to meet their spouse's needs, without getting ANYTHING BACK.

That's what it will take. He has his own "other woman" now.. except that at this point, he doesnt have any guilt from "i'm breaking up my marriage", because you've already done that. So if you want him back... you're going to have to work even HARDER than the average betrayed spouse on here, because you dont have guilt on your side.


Are you ready for that? Do you have the strength of will for that? Do you have enough unselfish love in you for that?


if you'd like him back, you'd better drop the concept of "fairness" out of your vocabulary for a long time.

"fair", would be him moving on and never talking to you again.

why did you and the OM break up...

what became of that relationship...

why are you trying no contact with him...

ark

PS: another 2x4: lets be clear in your current circumstances:
you were dumped by the OM.

Your initial post kinda gives the impression it was your choice, but from what you wrote, seems like it wasnt. So you are now suffering from the results of your choices, by having neither the OM nor your husband. That, is "fair".

The question now is, are you willing to work your @$$ off, to try to make up for your bad choices of the past?
No, "ok, i tried for a month", kinda effort. but months of up-front, difficult self-change, and then years of working together on your relationship with your husband every day?

It may be possible for you and your husband to still reconcile. but it most certainly wont be, if you think it's something you somehow deserve, or that it is "only fair".

techie - I like your honesty.
You're right - I got dumped and it sucks and yep - I'm out on the curb and hating it. BUT - I am learning some things about me, about both of the men... and I can't imagine what it would feel like to be the BS. I think I have hardened my heart quite a lot through this.

If I were my H I would tell me to go to he** and not look back. The fact that he is not doing that means he is an incredibly forgiving man. And I get this. He has another girlfriend because he can't be alone - he started seeing her the day he left - which I don't fault him for at all. And yes, if he wants to move on then I have to let him go. But. I think we at least need to look at counseling, if for no other reason than to make us better co-parents.

I AM ready to work my tail off.

<He has his own "other woman" now.. except that at this point, he doesnt have any guilt from "i'm breaking up my marriage">

Umm, but he is still married, is he not?
I never heard anyone else here say it's "ok" for the BS to be seeing someone else while they are still married, or that it is "justified".

Yes - he does, and I am not stupid enough to believe that it does not have just a little to do with trying to get "back" at me. He is hurting a lot and he is a very "acting-out" kind of guy... not in violent ways but in "nah, nah" ways...

well, i'm not saying *I* think it's ok. but it sounds like he is of that attitude, and isnt suffering any guilt about it. divorce is signed, and sealed. If he has some kind of morals, he isnt actually being physically intimate with her at least (until the judge finalizes it).


bossy: "I am ready to work my tail off"

good for you.

PS: dont go the whole "better co-parents" justification, though. If you're in counselling for that... you're in the wrong kind of counselling.

to put it another way; it's counterproductive to go to "divorce support" counselling, and "marriage recovery" counselling. To do well, each of those would have to lead you in a particular direction. You cant walk both paths at once, and make any progress. pick one and go with it.

dang, i find myself with a lot to say to you. i guess I must see something of you in my wife, or vice versa <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but anyways...


Dont make assumptions. maybe HE's just trying to be a "better co-parent". (ugh i hate that term. not that there are any better ones i suppose)

Moving on by having another girlfriend, is not what I'd call any indication of having "forgiven you".

Seems like he isnt talking to you much, and you're not sure he's going to reply to your request to see him.
again.. not very indicative of him having "forgiven you".

I'm unfortunately usually rather heavy on the negative side... i always want to identify the nasties in any "problem", so I dont get surprised later on. habit of being a computer programmer. I dont want to make it all negative. you have a few things on your side. just be careful about not making assumptions about things you think are true, that may not be.

Ok, thanks for clarifying that for me.

Bossy,

OK, you sort of listed five things. You ALMOST got there. But you need to try again. Here's why. In the list, you are NOT allowed to say ANYTHING about your husband. This list is ONLY ABOUT YOUR MISTAKES.

Number 1: You became highly critical. Leave it at that - and don't put in the other stuff about the yadda-yadda-yadda in the past you weren't, and what you avoided trying not to hurt him.

Number 2: This totally isn't about you. Again, you switch gears and make it about what is wrong with your husband. Try it again, and say what YOU did wrong.

Number 3: This one comes close to an admission, and I will accept it.

Number 4: This one exposes one of the biggest, and most basic problems in your marriage, I think. The way you put this shows your disrespect for him! What you are trying to say is that you didn't talk to him adult-to-adult. What you actually reveal is that you think you need to sit him down like a child (not an adult), and force him (like a child) to make a decision between two things THAT YOU WANT HIM TO DO. HMMMMM....Sounds like you earned the name "bossy".

Number 5: You should have stopped when you got to "I stopped encouraging him professionally." The rest sounds like you are trying to justify your poor behavior toward him, and also shows more disrespect of him.

So, let's re-do this list. Get REALLLLYYY honest this time. Pretend you were on a lie-detector that shocked your gonads every time you tried to justify yourself and your behavior, and every time you try to shift the topic over to your husband - and write the list again.

I'm having you do this for a reason. Unless you see what YOU have done wrong, you will NEVER recover your marriage, and you will NEVER have another relationship that is worth anything either - you will repeat this same mistake with someone else.

SB

No, I'm going to see a Christian counselor for myself, he has someone @ our church he is going to talk to someone @ church too, and they are making a referral to a Christian marriage counselor.

...and yes, he is sleeping with her.

So, why do you want to even try to get back together with someone you don't love, don't actually like very much (since you met OM, anyway) and feel you have to treat as a child?

More importantly, why would he?

And this does not even include the long-term emotional effects on him of your Four-Year-Long adultery with multiple D-Days and false recoveries!

That kind of thing builds resentment beyond what you alone can erase no matter what you do. He needs help neither you nor current gf can give him.

With prayers,

PS: Co-parenting is a smoke screen, IMO. He appears to have been parenting quite well on his own, while you cavorted for years.