My W and I have been seperated for 5 weeks now. She moved out of our house and got an apartment.

Long story short I was having an EA through email with an ex-girlfriend over the summer. Combined with pornography issues (downloaded videos on my pc) and some photos of my wife for my personal use (without her consent) and this eventually led to our separation. At first she would not even let me know where she lived. She decided to take a trip to Hawaii with a group of people from her work place that included a guy she claimed to be good friends with. Despite what others thought of the situation, including myself, she went anyways. The day she got back from her trip I discovered where she lived and confronted her later that night when I saw the presumed OM's car at her place. This would be the same guy that went on the trip. I knocked on the door but of course she would not answer. I had to call and we had a lengthy converation. She stated she was doing homework (she had told me she would probably rely on him for help with that particular class). She would not take any part of the blame nor would she see anything wrong with what she was doing. She said it didn't matter what anybody else thought because she knew what she was doing and that was homework.

A couple weeks ago I discovered my last 2 cell phone bills have been outrageous. I looked up the call records and discovered his number way too often. Of course she had an excuse for that as well.

I flat out asked her if she was having an affair to which she replied no. I figured at the least she was having an EA. I said told her she was having an intimate relationship with the OM and she did not like the word "intimate" repeating it with exclamation. I asked her if she'd tell me if she had an affair to which she replied. "yes." But I suppose that would be like asking a chronological liar if he is honest.

This week she went away for training for work. It is legit. I know some of the other people going. The OM is not there (as of yet anyways). I do have people keeping tabs on that. There are rumors circulating around her workplace concerning my W and the OM. There are always rumors about everyone there.

"edit"

Everything I read on this sight and in books concerning affairs lead me to believe she is definately having one. Being as I've known her for 10+ years, married for over 8 of them, I just don't see her as the type to cheat on me. Maybe I'm still grasping for straws.

She stated to me a couple weeks ago that the guy from work she is "good friends" with would not help her or ask for help with homework anymore because he didn't feel comfortable in the situation they were in and didn't want to interfere with our marriage. Not sure if this is believable or not.

At this point I don't know what else to do. We have continuous contact. She's said the common, "I don't love you anymore," and hasn't for quite some time. She doesn't feel she can ever be intimate with me again. She has no hope in the marriage. When I asked why she hung on when she has no hope she stated she didn't want to be the failure in the marriage. She is a devout Christian or was up until several months ago. I asked about her faith and she said it is still there, she said it with conviction even. But she has stopped going to church. There is a schedule conflict but there are still 2 sermons she could attend. Unfortunately they would cause her to rush after work but to me that excuse is not valid enough to miss as often as she does. I just go by myself.

I don't know what proof I need before I confront her. I have caught her lying about her whereabouts. She has definately been deceiving me. But has she been having a PA? I just don't know anymore.

don't have any advice, but i'd be willing to bet she is having an A. sorry.

do you know the password to her e-mail? that's where i got my biggest proof. of course we were not separated.

and i got him to admit it after much worry and crying.

I do but he supposedly does not have internet access, hence part of the reason he goes there. She knows I have her password. If I would have thought things through and not let my emotions get to me I should not have confronted her the first night to see if the OM would have stayed the night.

This whole past year is nothing but hindsight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

another thought, you should assume she is having an A, and start working on plan A immediately! hopefully, she will see what a good husband you are, confess, and want to work it out.

but, you know i'm only 3 weeks into this, so you probably shouldn't take advice from me ;-)

Sometimes I wonder if she HAD an affair and has ended it and is feeling guilty about it. She calls and text messages for no reason but just to chat and sometimes has me doing favors for her. I feel like she is letting me fulfill some of her EN's but maybe she is just taking advantage of me.

I just can't figure anything out anymore. She could be that .001 percent that is just strange and looks like she's gone astray but hasn't. Someone has to take up for that small percentage.

I know, I know, grasping for straws. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

My first clue of an affair was the high cellphone bill with calls made to the OW. An affair was denied. It was a lie.

People in affairs lie. Assume she is in an affair.

It was nearly impossible for me to get concrete proof. We had a couple of separations and false recoveries before the affair finally ended nearly 4 yrs after it started.

Irlex, you need to get organized. May I suggest the link in my signature block below that talks about organizing a marital recovery? I think that will give you a place to start. You have some very strong indications your wife is engaged in adultery. From what you’ve found so far, I’d say it’s more than probable she is.

If you want, check out the “Spying 101” thread (also in the sig block below). In that thread, there is a link to a company selling kits to determine if sperm is present on a given sample material. I think that will nail down the question of whether those “hairs” were deposited by another man or not.

Now…let’s deal with another problem. If you find out she’s committing adultery, you’ll need to expose this to “God and everyone” as Grandma used to say. It’s the best tool you have (it’s “shock and awe” caliber) to smash the adultery up. Exposure to the workplace would be paramount in your case. If that doesn’t work, you’ll need to go to Plan A and that will be very difficult for you to do.

Look, Plan A is a process of enticing the WS back to a spouse that is much more attractive than the other person. Understand this; the encouragement to come home is accomplished by you becoming the best you can be. (I see I’m into cliché phrases today.) Right now, I suspect the image of the man you are in your WW’s mind is pretty slimy. Face it; deal with it.

For instance, I’ll be a lot more comfortable thinking you’re actually trying to recover your marriage when you begin telling us about your individual counseling for the Internet porn addiction. Similarly, what did you do to make it possible for your wife to recover from your EA? What have you done to try to regain her trust after using (intimate?) pictures of her for obscene purposes?

Pardner, until you get into counseling and working on your personal problems, you can’t do Plan A correctly, and you’re NOT going to be able to convince your wife to work on the marriage.

Well I go 2 times a week to a Christian counselor. We determined I don't have a sexual addiction. I have been "porn free" since my W requested it back this summer. Though I admit, I did not agree with her reasoning at first. My view was that there was nothing wrong with it, against my Christian up-bringing. I did begin to get back in the grace of God and that has helped me tremendously. I don't have the disire to look at another woman besides my W. Temptation is always there but I know to turn away from it.

As far as what I've done to help towards her. I've honored her requests and asked for forgiveness. She said she wanted time and space to discover who she is, who I am, and what she wants out of life. I haven't been very good at giving her space, that in part is what drove her out of the house. I took the EN and LB questionaire and asked if she'd do the same and she said yes. She took them with her on her trip. Hopefully I'll learn something.

I suggest seeing a secular counselor who is mean, nasty, who doesn’t believe a word you say and who doesn’t treat you with much respect? Find one who is suspicious about anyone who downloads porn, but determines (he) doesn’t have an addiction to that substance. Challenge yourself. Frankly, I see way too much comfort in your words concerning a lack of an addiction. The subject is WAY more complex than what you’ve said about it.

Second, acceding to her requests may be precisely the wrong thing to do. Giving a wayward spouse “space” to conduct adultery, for instance, is almost always wrong.

Sir, I’ll repeat myself. What is your plan to recover your marriage? So far, I see you flailing about without rhyme or reason. If you don’t start working on a program with clearly defined procedures and goals, you’re not going to get anywhere. If you want to salvage your marriage, you have an enormous amount of work to do. It’s hard, it’s painful, and it takes a lot of time and energy. Are you ready for that?

What is your plan? Tell me what you’re going to do in Plan A after you’ve exposed the adultery. How are you going to make yourself into a better man to attract her back into the marriage?

Well, I have no solid proof that my W is having an affair. Everything points to it but of course she denies it. There is the off chance everybody's wrong. If I go about accusing her of adultery and telling our church, family, friends, and her work place, it could get nasty. If I'm right about the affair then it will be totally necessary but if I'm wrong, then what?

As for myself. According to my counselor there is nothing I can do until she figures out what she wants. I feel pretty helpless. Any time I push anything on her she withdrawals. When I give her space she comes to me. In the meantime my counselor has suggested I work on myself. I was very sporadic with attending church, in part because I chose not to believe and felt I was living a lie. I have done some intense soul searcing since then and I have gone every week since this whole ordeal started. Does that make me a saint? No, I know it doesn't. I believe this was a wake up call from God. I don't believe He is punishing me. But I can honestly say I am a better person than I have ever been. I feel I know where I messed up.

1) I turned my back on God and His word.
2) I didn't listen or hear my W when she said there were problems with our marriage.
3) I waited until my W decided to leave me before I decided to get help for myself and try to save our marriage.
4) I was very selfish through the later part of our marriage.
5) I got caught up in the "modern day" views of pornography.
6) Pornography distorted my views on what a healthy sexual relationship with my spouse should be like, causing increased demands my W could not fulfill.

I truly believe I have fixed those mistakes to the best of my ability. All I feel I can do at this point is hope that my W can see those changes. She doesn't believe me when I tell her so I quit telling her. I quit initiating contact. I continue to grow and work on myself. I admit it is mostly through church and self reflection with my counselor. I went back to how I was raised as oposed to what I turned into during my marriage.

As for plan A and plan B, I don't have proof there is an affair to end yet. She clearly has bad boundry's when it comes to men. But that in itself is not justification to accuse my W of an affair.

If she was just "studying", why didn't she answer the door?

When my W gets back from training should I sit down with her and express my feelings? Should I discuss how I strongly feel she is having or had an affair and really want her to be honest with me? Or is this a waste of time?

Actually I have a more interesting idea. I have opened up my life to her so she can see everything about me. My email, my social life, my computer. My phone. I don't have internet at home. I do at work. Wouldn't it be fair if we both had access to each others lives? I have trust issues with her and she knows it. I've been told I cannot expect anything of her since she separated from me thinking about a divorce. But the tables have kind of turned IMO. She has given me little to no reason to trust her. She probably doesn't care.

I checked the phone bill that came out today and noticed since I confronted her the calls have dropped significantly. Could be she knows better than to run up another $300 bill for the 3rd month in a row. But she did state that the OM told her he was uncomfortable helping her with her homework and asking for her help on his.

So should I ask her to be open and honest with me and let me know what she's doing so I can re-establish trust in her?

Good luck, pardner. I'm very much afraid you're going to need it.

So should I just make a "plan A" and assume she is having an affair and tell her to stop?

Yes, keep the radars up, but be upbeat, no moping, no critizing, accusations, questions about the A. Wait until you have full proof. She knows already you are onto her.

Be nice, pleasant and loving, but keep your emotions about the M in check.

Wikthout full proof, she knows she can deny still and put the issue onto you as the insecure person.

I think these are MrWondering's guidelines for Plan A'ing:
DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

Bottom line is she probably is having an A and wants space in order to not have the A interfered with. Since you are seperated, you will need to accept that you will have limited opportunity to plan A. Focus on improving yourself and being happy with yourself and do not let your desire for positive reactions from your wife be what guides you. Chart your course, and see if it is interesting to her. If she does show any interest, make sure you don't LB.

Get Surviving an Affair and Love Busters and His Needs, Her Needs and read them.

I LB'ed last night. I found out she went to the mall with OM before coming over to my place. That upset me and I accused her of cheating on me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I really need to get my emotions on check. They tend to get me into trouble as I often act without thinking about the consequences. She, of course, absolutely refuses to admit she is doing anything wron. I told her at the very least she was having an emotional affair. She says she's not letting anyone fulfill her EN. She says she has none.

I know what I need to do. Why is it so difficult to do it? I need to just ignore everything she does and worry about myself and be happy. I am guilty with her affecting my mood. When I get a positive or negative reaction from her it changes my mood dramatically. She is so responsible for the way I feel. I try not to show it but I'm sure it shows.

Sometimes I wish I didn't care. It would seem that's when the turning point starts to happen, at least from what I've read on these boards.

As long as she figures that you don't know for sure whether or not she is having an affair, she can continue to deny. Do some more snooping. Get the OM's tag number and find out his name, if you don't already know it. Then expose. Try knocking on the door again when he is over there to see if she answers. If not, then get out your cell phone and call while you are at the door.

If you can afford it, hire a PI to do your snoopimg. But she will continue to deny it as long as you don't know for sure.

Given the circumstances I'm in now, what should I do/say to her when I pick her up at the airport?