You just took your first step... you asked something and admitted to being lost! Good. Onward and upward from here.

I would say that it should look something like this...

Accept that the divorce will most likely happen. Now, I do not mind you saying to your H that while you are not ready to jump back into a relationship with him at this time... would he be willing to put the divorce on hold for right now in the hopes that you will be in a different place down the road. I would be guided by his answer. But what I would NOT suggest is for you to play on his emotions and to promise him anything since we really don;t have any clue as to what you will be able to deliver later on. Let him make the call free of emotional persuasion on your part.
Next, get yourself into intensive psycho therapy to get to the root of your problems. Marriage counseling or even coaching at this point is not called for since you do not have a foundation to do so.
Focus solely on you right now. Realize that while he may be dating another woman... you cannot and should not involve yourself with any other men. It will show a lack of sincerity on your part as well as cloud what you really need to do.
Give your H the space he needs and allow nothing more than an occasional public get together... dinner would be good. Keep him up to date on your progress with emails and letters. Let him know how you are improving yourself. Afterall, Bossy, this is all about you right now.
Give your H the respect he deserves. He may not be career driven... he may not be Don juan... but really, he should be the most wonderful gift in the world to you.
So, in a nutshell... what is the next step... breath... slow down...find yourself. There is a good person buried in all of the stuff that you have let take over in your life. Realize that divorce is not necessarily the end of your story if you handle this correctly. I would rather see the paperwork go through and THEN have a wonderful woman return to me... ready to rekindle something that was lost many years ago. The alternative would be for you to run in sand trying to make something work without the tools to do so. It would only hurt your long term chances.
Also... please answer the where would you be right now question.... it is important to KNOW what you will do should the OM make himself available to you again today.

Next stop... integrity. Welcome aboard.

I think you are wrong about this. She is not ready to be in his life right now.... she does not have the tools to be a good wife right now. She has a lot of work to do before she is ready. Your suggestion would set her H up for more hurt. JMHO.

you know what?

i ADMIRE my h and he is a WS

-he puts great effort into enverythine he does
-he sets goals and works hard to reach them
-he was a wonderful "daddy" to our 2 four-footed boys
-he took great care of our cars and trucks....they were always show room new
-he made our house into a beautiful home by caring for our yard so that the neighbors always said it looked like a park, and upkeeing and upgrading the inside
-he was a better wife than i was! he cooked like a chef....washed clothes....made the bed

like you, i look back and wonder how i didn't see those things and appreciate them

and let my H know how much i did admire him

it seems that from my reading here, both the BS and WS took things for granted that we should have celebrated

don't think that you're H can't find it in himself to see things differently just as you are

it will just take sincere effort and hard work from you to fill his love bank enough that he is willing to SEE these things in you again

i believe she should plan A also

HI Lostsheep

Better, huh? The name? Feels better.
H just called me. He spent the night reading his Bible praying. He is really unsure - he has feelings for his friend and is really unsure. Plus, he doesn't want to confuse DD. So, he agrees, I keep working on me, he is going to keep going to church and look into talking to someone (although i get he is not real excited about that idea), and we keep being friendly except when the GF is in town. And I guess, for now, that's all I can ask for.

So - on to fixing me... MEDC I struggle with the answer to your question re: what if OM shows up tomorrow...
Honestly, if it is today, I think I am not strong enough to tell him to go away. If it is tomorrow, I don't know, ask me tomorrow. Which is why I can't jump right back in with H because I have to be ready to go all in - and if I can't answer the question re: the OM differently, then I'm not ready for H.
Yes?

Incidentially, I have emailed and/pr talked to H at times I would normally have talked to OM - and he (OM) has really not entered my thoughts much today... of course that's because I've been with you all! I need to get some work done! Check in later!

....praying for a new job opportunity SOON!
~lostsheep

Now Pep.. and Eav.. based on her admission that she is not sure what she would do if the OM comes back.. do you still advocate a Plan A???

Lostsheep.. good for you for being honest enough to admit this. As far as the sentence that included "except when the GF is in town" I would hope that you two are not conspiring and giving this innocent woman lies. She deserves honesty also.

And good for you that you have realized that you are not ready for your H until you KNOW without any doubt that the OM is history in your life. Bravo.

well MEDC

Plan A would certainly change her focus

and changing her focus back to her H would be a good thing for her family

what we focus on becomes more important to us

Pep

Absolutely agree 100%. BUT if she is not sure she will be faithful to her H.. what does that potentially subject him to??? And in reality.. isn't Plan A for a BS that doesn't have that issue?

And what if her plan A works???? What if she winds up winning him back and she is not ready for it yet? What if he decides to take her back and she has not yet broken the addiction to the OM?

The order of this just seems very unfair to the BH.

"What you OWE your H is honesty. Tell him he has never and you don;t think he ever will fill your needs like the OM... see if he wants to be with you after knowing the truth.?"



whoa there... you may have been sarcastic when you wrote this. but that isnt clear to other readers. Your words seem to be advising her to actually do that. which would be very bad advice: deliberately DJ'ing her husband to his face.

to [now known as] lostsheep:

those rememberances you wrote about your husband, are beautiful. Hang on to those. Write them up, and post them on a fridge or something. You may need to look at them every day, for quite a while.

sorry Techie... RH means RH. If she really feels that way she owes him honesty before trying to get him back in a relationship. And what in the world is a DJ in that... if she says he cannot meet the needs like the OM, there is no judgement needed. It is her reality.

All kind of moot at this point since she has backed away from this... but if she truly felt that way she would owe him honesty.

lostsheep...aka Bossy
is no different than other WS

when a WS is in withdrawl from thier ADDICTION they most likely WOULD go back to the OP.....that's why no contact has to be ensured

plan A is still what i advise

as would be advised to anyother WS who says they are committed to trying to recover their marraige

you WOULD NOT advise them to try and take some time out to work on themselves first....that time would allowthem to be too vunerable

she CAN both plan A her H while working on herself

and if her H is in her life...and is her focus due to plan A.....that will help with withdrawl

personally, i think plan A is very important for her to do for both her and her H right now

And Techie.. when taken in context of the post... it meant "Don't drag your H back into the M if you feel this way about him... give him honesty and let him decide what he wants."

That's a good point, MEDC.

I think if "lostsheep" wants to get serious... she should implement her own NC at this point.
Even though she was the one "dumped".

Maybe something like,

[/quote]

OM,
I realize that you were the one who ended things between us, but I was a fool to not do that myself years earlier. I have hurt my family and my husband in ways that i deeply regret. If at some point your resolve changes, and you wish to pursue me again again, I want to let you know that I now am comitted to doing whatever I can, to mend the relationship between myself, my family, and my husband.
Please do not try to contact me in any way in the future.
I shall not be contacting you again.

signed,
lostsheep.

[/quote]

Then send a copy to him (maybe registered mail), and a copy to her husband, giving him the mail tracking number or whatever. (no need to wait until delivery, just give himi the tracking, I think)

She should use the Harley letter ... it is great. Her BH should be copied on this. And the letter should go to the OM, a copy to his wife (certified to her) and to her H.

It will be her first step in assuring this scum does not show up on her doorstep.

the "R" in "RH", stands for "radical" honesty, not "rude" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

saying "you cant" is a DJ.

saying, "I dont feel like you could definately ...", shares the feelings honestly, that she is unsure of what he is capable of, without passing a "disrespectful judgement".

and a reminder to folks: it's not just about using the right words for the other person's benefit. It's also about taking the time to reflect on how you're thinking, and make your thought patterns match your words.

lostsheep... you DONT KNOW what your husband is capable of. To say in words, "you're not capable of..." would be a disrecpectful judgement. To just say the right words, but still think you "know the truth" about him, would be to (wrongly!) sabotage your marriage.

I have found I am capable of a lot of things that even *I* didnt know I was capable of, let alone whether my wife thought I was capable of it.

Okay Techie... so she tells him ... based on our experience I think the OM is a better lover and feel that he was able to meet my needs in a way that you never could.
Still think he would want to be involved with her??? NO DJ in there... message is the same.

Again... you are running with a point that is now moot, so I suggest that if you want to discuss this further we move it off her thread as to no distract her.

1.) This EN thing... he and I are POLAR opposites on the list, and what is most tricky is my top 3 needs are on the "his" list, and his top 3 are on the "hers" list... and I really struggle with that. I have read the thing about how to meet needs for affection, and honestly, all the stuf fon that list makes me want to puke! Which I know I can learn to do, but the problem is, he wants to do those things to/for me and I want to run away!

you ARE a runner
this is very clear

what you may not recognize is you are trying to escape things about yourself that frighten you

2.) He is very heistant to do the counseling thing because he feels like if I had never cheated we wouldn't need counseling - everything would have been perfect. Which is, obviously, crazy.

he's crazy
you're not

... riiiiiiiiight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

he is hesitant to risk getting his heart stomped on
... counseling is intimacy (if done right) ... and you are not good at intimacy

... becoming ~emotionally naked~ before your husband is a very scary deal ... which is why you picked an UNavailable MM ... one who is, historically, bad at intimacy ... because...

3.) EN #2 for me is sexual fufillment - and I am seriously doubtful that my husband can ever meet this need, and I KNOW he can never meet it in the way the OM did.... and the A has been going on for 4 years. I don't know what to do about this because it is a difference in fundamental thinking about what sex is, what it means, etc.

this is a fear of intimacy, right here

you have a need for sex
but with an avoidance of bare-naked emotional intimacy

4.) I have such difficulty respecting him for several reasons - I tend to view the whole "hold my hand" thing as weak and juvenille, I tend to find his "gentle" approach to sex undesireable, and I am and always will be the bread-winner of our family. When we tried it the other way, we lost our house. So how can I stay married to someone I don't respect?

[b]the gentle & soft & caring intimacy is way too close for comfort ... it's far easier to run away from intimacy and emotional nakedness when banging uglies with a MM who won't care if you keep your emotional distance (in fact, he prefers it)

Pep

I guess I did that - A NC letter of my own... I didn't really know that's what it was, but essentially, yesterday morning OM sent me an email (he had heard about my reconciliation thoughts), and it said, you know, he was here to talk kind of stuff. And I supported his original decision and thanked him for doing what I should have done a long time ago, and stated I was going to everything I could to get back together with H and I know he wants to help but he just can not. And I would really appreciate him not calling/emailing, etc.

I didn't cc my H - but I told him about it last night - as for the OMW - that's a can of worms I can't go anywhere near yet. She knows about me...and as for his long history - isn't that his to tell?

MEDC.. what you wrote is still a disrespectful judgement.
Because it still has "[ the way you never could ]" in it. If it was clearer about "i USED to believe you never could, (but I shouldnt have made that assumption about you)", then that bit wouldnt be a current DJ.

I'm going to keep replying, because I think there is still something of use to lostsheep in here, of how to apply MB principles.

Changing "You suck", to "I think you suck", is still an insult. It's not just about putting the words "I think" or "I feel" in front of something.


At some point, she will probably have to bring it up to him, because her emotional needs were not being met, and it will be important to him to understand why she was doing this.

To address the specific topic you are writing about... if there comes a time where she wants to bring up the issue of the sexual difference between the two, I think the "honest, but with as little DJ as possible" way to phrase it, might be,

"The OM was meeting my sexual wants during xyz time, better than you were. I didnt think that you could treat me the way he did, and that's what I wanted then, so I went to him for it."

(gah... I wish i had an edit button in real life speech. it took me a few tries to come up with this version)

The question then becomes, how important is it really to her, to be treated that way by her husband?
Based on her more recent posts, it may not feel so important to her any more. She praised how good a lover her husband used to be.

I would guess that there are certain types of dynamics in an affair, or ONS sexual relationship, that just dont belong in a marriage.
(ie: being "dominated" by someone in bed, may be fun in an affair, but may be marital poison, if you want to feel like an equal partner with your spouse, the other 99% of the time. For some couples, it may work. for others, not)

Trying to recreate everything in the affair sex, with her husband, may actually be a huge mistake. It may be best to just try to refocus on their positive past with sex.

(or heck, maybe the dominant thing is something her husband never knew she liked, and he may get into it. who knows? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> the important thing is to be "honest, but with love" with each other, I think, and see what develops)