[color:"red"] sabotage [/color]

as you read the books you bought (all are excellent by the way) ... TAKE NOTES and use a HIGHLIGHTER

the notes will guide you as to what to say to your husband

use the words HUSBAND and WIFE when writing or talking to H as much as possible

the more you use the words HUSBAND and WIFE the more you will focus on your marriage and the withdrawl from OM will fade more easily

the more times you say "OM" or worse, "MY OM", the more thoughts of him will pop into your head ... refer to him as "Mary's husband" ... because he was not ever "yours", was he? It also helps to refer to him as "adultery choice" ... see where I am going? Use honest words in your own head, which helps you move forward.

you are going to be OK, no matter what

Pep

okay, this might not be a good idea but i'm gonna say what i've been wondering as i've read this thread

(i'm asking this to everyone and also to lost sheep)

if you look back, you can see that i've been very positive in my postings since i thought it was a good sign that lost sheep had found her way here

i still feel that way

however, i'm confused

in the beginning she was so critical of her H and justifying her A, not thinking her H could ever meet her needs but that he was really the only choice left

the turn around in her thinking came pretty quickly after the first few posts

and it has come very, very far in a very, very short time

realizing how much she loves her H, how wrong she had been, how the OM is no good for her, and so willing to make changes in herself that she has already started making BIG ones in her thinking

also to go from the tone in her initial posts to now joking and being so ashamed of her past actions and words

so i'm asking

isn't this UNUSUAL?

is this how quickly someone can emerge from the fog when the OP walks away and decides it's over? or is it that by facing the D that is to come in just a few weeks, she has faced reality? or is it that both happened together?

this didn't seem to be a gradual process

by reading the initial posts, i can't see that she was even thinking along the lines of "true recovery" when she found this site

just that she had no better choice than her H so she was wondering how was she going to make the situation bearable

how can it be that in the 4 years of her affair nothing got through and now everything IS? she and her H even separated and it didn't wake her up. He didn't even do plan A or plan B.

the affair just died it's natural death and ended when the OM decided to work things out with his wife

and because she was still married her H became an option, but not even an attractive option, just "better than nothing or the 2nd choice" and now with the very short itme frame, she's gotten herself in gear to try to make this work before the D occurs

i'm not trying to be critical or even questioning sheep's intentions, i'm only asking so that i can better understand
in case my H ever rethinks his choices

this isn't how i imagined the process would be by the things i've read

perhaps i've misunderstood and it really is an "awakening" that occurs suddenly once the WS faces reality they can quickly recover their sanity and values

i'd apprecaite some thoughts about this

ps

sheep, please know that i'm not trying to offend you

my H has been in a long term affair and is living with the OW and i'm trying to inderstand WS and this whole process

and sadly, i'm thinking that like in your case, it might take the OW ending things before my H considers me an option

this is very unusual.

Actually,
If I may offer a rather superfluous analogy here:

2 people, H and W begin a journey together where they are both walking hand in hand down the same path together. At some point on this path, they come to a crossroads. H says no, we need to go this way, and W says no, I'm going this way. H laments and calls after his ww(which she has now become), no no, please return here to where I am.

After countless pleadings, wh(which he has now beecome) sits down on a bench provided at the very crossroads where their jouney together parted.

He waits and prays that ww will return from the WRONG path and return to him, where he is willing to resume the origanal journey they began on together. Time goes by, and soon, one year turns into two, and so forth.

Finally, wh realizes that he can not sit indefinetly on this bench at the crossroad. He wails and laments, but realizes, its time to take the other road(as in the High Road). So wh, reluctanly picks hiimself up, and continues to traverse the high road by himself.

In the meantime, ww has finally come to the end of her road. The OM has drifted away to sway yet another horrible injustice to someone else's M and has dumped the ws. She looks at the end of her road and see's the danger and warning signs everywhere. DO NOT COME ANY CLOSER!! In spite of that, she looks. And what she sees in an abyss. The only left is to walk off the cliff at the end of this this road into the abyss, or turn your path around and attempt to return.

She does not walk, or even jog, but rather, sprints back to the crossraod, where she last left her H, sitting along on that lonely bench.
When she arrives, panting and out of breath, she finds that he is no longer there. But there is someone there that NONE of us truly ever recognize. IT IS THE ONE TRUE ONE, WHO HAS PROMISED TO NEVER ABADONE US. THE ONE WHO IS TRULY FAITHFUL TO ALL OF HIS PROMISES.

So he takes her hand and says, let us hurry down the high road for that is where your H has continued his journey. If we hurry, we may just catch up to him.

So who do we trust? Our instincts will often lead us astray. That's because we are human and full of fault.

As insane as it may seem, I am praying fot he full restoration and healing of lost sheep and her H. I will not question the faulty or ill conceived motivation, or anything else for that matter, I simply choose to beleive, that there is always grace and forgiveness for those who have chosen repentance.

Sorry, just the musings of a man who has been around the block too many times.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Mr Pep turned on a dime

... and, I did NOT believe him when that happened ...

but he kept up his new attitude

so this sudden change in attitude is not a big surprise to me

Pep

Eav,
I am not at all offended - you are right, I'm sure this virtually overnight transformation seems hasty and perhaps a bit questionable.

When H decided to leave, I let him go because I was still in the midst of the fog & really thought our M was doomed from the beginning.

I have dragged my feet the entire time in terms of the DV, and only filed because he insisted. I have asked him over & over if he was "sure", if we didn't need to explore more counseling, etc. This was while in the midst of the fog. The A has been in the final stages of its terminal nature for a long time - really ever since H left, because, as you all know, an A faced with even the remote likelihood of any permanance will begin to be snuffed out by that "reality". So, yes, when I got here I was desperately confused, torn, and "blaming" H for everything - screaming out for someone to make sense of the lunacy that my life has become over the past few years, and somewhere to place the blame besides at my own feet. But as I have said, as the DV becomes more and more real, I have continued asking H to consider if this is what we both want. I have felt, for months, that it is not what I want - I have just struggled to put a fine point on it - to really examine myself and how I have gotten here.

And, in all honesty, I have been wrestling with God for a very long time over this whole situation. I have been on the verge of handing it all over to Him week after week for almost 6 months. Gradually, the components of the A started changing as I have prayed and wresteld. "susie's" husband was promoted and moved away from the main campus of the organization, resulting in less contact. Opportunites for career advancement with my current organization began drying up, prompting me to look elsewhere and face the reality of relocating. And, serious conversations began happening forcing "susie's" husband & I to begin looking at the reality of being together - which honestly scared the He(( out of both of us.

At the same time, I was cancelling appts with the atty, hesitating to finalize documents, forcing us to seek a continuance. H was seeing things in GF that bothered him, and making decisions that seemed to be more "adult" - which I liked.

So - in truth, I have been considering reconciliation for a long time but really just too full of resentment and feelings of entitlement (I've been reading, LA), to do anything but lament over my situation... and in my lamenting I have been crying out to God to heal me, and finally, very recently, to take away the things I have thought I felt for "Susie's" husband. And in His grace, he gave me a day of you all and your 2x4s to help me see the venom that had seeped into my spirit, and that what I need recovery from is years of seeking to heal things of my past with relationships, and a whole host of things I have not even begun to understand.

Eav, I have to say that I truly believe the ONLY reason I have been able to get to where I am in the time I have, is because God has moved me here. There is no other explanation. The first night I came to MB, I sobbed and sobbed to Him to fix me - make me understand - make the pain go away. And, day by day, He is.

And - He has allowed me to see - through words of posters like yourself and MEDC, JL, and countless others, as I read and think - the pain, the incredible and tremendous pain I have caused. The way I have abused my H with my lies and hurtful WW words. I have looked him in the face and told him I do not love him (as per the "script") - and that was BEFORE he knew the EA was a PA. As I have said, I was his princess - and I betrayed him. And he is the most loyal person one could ever know. And before any work can be done in me, I have to get a firm hold on that reality - on the knowledge of what can happen when one crosses their own boundaries - or does not have them firmly set. And I have to own the pain I have caused. I think, for me, that has been the missing piece required to cut through the fog. Ownership.

And I own it now. I made the choices - there were others available to me, but I made the ones I made.

And I am where I am because finally I was willing to ask God to step in. And He did. My H has prayed over and over and over for this same thing - but my heart was cold. And God was waiting on me to ask. I, as you all have realized, have serious control issues - and it is very difficult to have a close and intimate realtionship with anyone, but especially God, if you are unwilling to give up control. He was waiting for me to give up I think.

So, now that I have resolved to own my choices and their consequences, resolved to give up control to God, and resolved to learn about how I have gotten here - the fog is clearing fast. I am pouring good input in - I havene't watched regular TV in a week - haven't read anything but my Bible or one of the book I bought about relationships, haven't listened to popular music. When I hear a song or see something that makes my wind wander places it should not - I start singing something praise/worship related. I am putting myself through a "brain-washing" of sorts - because I know I must.

And I'm sorry I can not explain what the one thing was that got me here. It may have started as some sort of hopeless desperation brought on by the adultery choice dumping me. But, I'm not sure I really care what brought me here - not really sure it matters. I'm just glad I'm finding my way.

~lostsheep

Shinethrough - this is a beautiful picture of exactly how I am feeling this whole putrid mess has unfolded. And I am clinging to His hand for dear life. Because I am so so sad that I have lost what probably really was the mate for my soul.

He was not a Christian when we married. he was so resistant to anything of the church. One day I picked up the book, I can't remember what it's called, but it is about being unequally yoked, and how the W's job is not to push her H to God, but DEMONSTRATE God's love to him. Well, my H began to be open, started reading "A Case for Christ", and accepted Christ and was baptized - one year and four months before I started having an A.

Can you imagine, the woman he credits with helping lead him to Christ, becomes a cheating, lying, betrayer. And him, a baby Christian. It is perhaps an even greater betrayal.

And so, at this point, I just pray that his faith recovers. And I am so grateful for a grace that is willing to run back along the path with me, hand in mine, in spite of these horrific truths. And I am, minute by minute, taking every thought captive, and seeking to learn, and trying to show H that I am changing. i don't know what else I can do.

pep

when you say your H "turned on a dime" was that on (or near) D-day? (excuse me for not knowing your story)

my H did also

from the moment i found out about the A he did everything wonderful you would want

(for me though it was 8 months of false recovery because the A resumed)

and i have read of other WS here who did the same

but lost sheep was separated from her H for a year, was close to D and did not intend to end the A...the OM ended it

that's why i find this turn around so surprising

I've read alot of threads here and seen it on D-day or shortly after plan B but i don't recall ssituations like this one

Eav,
It is important to me that you know - I am struggling every minute of every day. This is why I am taking MEDC (and others) advice and not rushing to my H and begging him to take me back and start over. I am not ready. I have MUCH work to do. It is true, I have turned quite suddenly. All I can say is, there has been intervention. But my friend who was @ my house a bit ago this afternoon - she is just as overwhelmed by the change in me - she says it is visible - that it is inside -out. I look different, I am speaking differently, handling my daughter differently, etc.

BUT - I am not ready to be in a relationship with anyone at this point. I still hang on to some feelings of resentment and entitlement - I am working through them - rather working them away, but they linger. It has, as you have pointed out, been too soon for "complete" recovery - if there is any such thing.

You are absolutely right - I had no intention of ending the A. I am so very grateful that adultery choice did - not grateful to him, grateful that it ended.

You need to understand that this has been an on-going drama... H discovered the A 9 months in. There was instant exposure to OMW, but nowhere else, and unfortunately I did not quit my job. However, for alomost 8 months I was perfectly content to be with H, had no desire to be with adultery choice. But, as we did not seek counseling and, more importantly I did not seek to understand the "why" of my choices, eventually I landed back where I was. Which is why I am being cautious now (well, that & the advice I have received here).

There were 2 more times of discovery - where I convinced H it was just a "friendship" (have since confessed), and continued to hide and lie. It was the second discovery that prompted his leaving. And since that time, the A had been very fragile - on and off and on again until it met its death - and although it was at the hands of adultery choice, we had both been moving that direction since H left - as I mentioned earlier.

So, although when you follow my posts, it certainly seems an overnight awakening, my heart has been moving this direction for some time - I just needed something to cut off the offending limb.

And that is not clear form my posts because all I had in my heart that first day, the reason why I was "stuck" with one foot on either side of the boundary line, was because I could not see the venom inside me - could not see who I had become. And, you all helped me to see that. And the fact that you began showing me these things - that various ones of you echoed the same thoughts over & over again, was underscored by what I heard sitting in church that Sunday,

"If one person calls you a jacka**, shrug your shoulders. If three people call you a jacka**, buy a saddle"

(of course the pastor edited a bit <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)... anyway it just all confirmed that in fact - I was a venomous, lying, selfish, cheating, mean-spirtited, emasculating, alien I did not recognize.

And when I read the beginning of my thread now - I am ashamed. I would delete it immediately - if I didn't think there was value for me in reading it over again... which I have done.

Eav - I have read some of your threads, have heard your pain, have hung my head, humbled by it. I almost wrote to you the other night because you have been so gentle in your counsel to me - and that, in light of your pain and "side of the field" if you will, reflects your character.

I am thankful to you and all here for the insight and the help as I continue to be lost, but finding my way.

~lostsheep

Lost:

You have a chance to be a STAR!

At least around here.

Your transformation in just the past week and the tenor of your posts is amazing.

It can be quite startling to "Change on a Dime" as Pep described. I did. EAV WH did. (at first) Ace in Bucket's WH did it seems as well.

When you look in the mirror and decide you really are not going to be that person anymore, It is really easy to change.

And like the alcoholic who can not take another drink, you know, like I do, what you can longer do.

And someone else, or possibly your H, or your soon to be Ex-H, will be the beneficiary of that.

And that is what is real.

Stay on track.

OK?

Be the STAR!

Oh, LG - wrong thing to say to this little lamb! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I LOVE the spotlight - BUT, in this case, this is so not about me and is completely about the power of God.

On a completely other subject - are you really a lousy golfer? Me too - although I love it - AND my H is excellent! Maybe, just maybe, we can start doing the once a week early A.M. 9, when the dew is fresh on the greens... we always walked AND carried - unless carts were required... but he bought me a double strap bag <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
The first time we went out, I shanked it into the trees, and it being summer & the part of the country where we live having issues with ticks - I asked him to go in & get my ball for me... which he did - just that once. We studied etiquette that day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My daughter looks more and more like him every day - it's her eyes. She is sunshine on the first day of spring.

Hey, I shot an 82 the other day.

Didn't do as well on the back 9 though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lostsheep,

I don't think you turned on a dime, although it may seem so by looking at the posts. I have seen many come here and "turn on a dime", but the reality was and perhaps is, they and you were ready to hear what needed to be said. You and they are ready to change and were realizing what was really happening.

It has been my experience that people don't often change there minds unless they are willing to.

LS, I would definitely keep those first posts. Some day you may want to show them to your H. Why? So that he will see how you changed and how thoroughly you did change. It will also be a good reminder for you.

FWS's often forget how they were and what they said, while the BS does remember. You have something to reminde you of how you felt, thus it will help you in dealing with your H.

It will take awhile for you to fully heal from what you have done to yourself, so give yourself time. However, I would be talking to your H pretty soon about his feelings for the divorce. He is trying new things out, and that really is not good while married, but just as obviously he has NOT found someone to replace you even if he thinks so, one can tell by his actions.

Hope the rest of your weekend goes well.

God Bless,

JL

Hi all! Happy Sunday! I'm going to make this quick b/c I HAVE TONS OF HOMEWORK!!!!!!!!! (can't believe I am 34 and saying that! LOL)

Anyway, DD and I went to church this morning and H was there - I wasn't sure he would be b/c GF is in town and she is not of the same faith. But he was there & we sat together again. He did make it pretty clear that he doesn't think he has anything to recover from - he thinks he's in pretty good shape (??!!)... but he notices changes in me... is happy to see them, but hopes they are for ME and not him - because "it's going to take time - a lot of time".

So, ok. Time I have, right? I have been reding a lot this weekend and learning and thinking and learning more. I have been taking notes (i'm sure my profs wish I had the same focus in their classes tight now!) and re-reading paragraphs. Spending a lot of time thinking about the "why".

I am wishing I could drop a class or two with all that's going on - 12 hrs of grad credit + FT work and single-mom status is a killer, but I think I've missed a deadline - but I'm checking today.

IT IS 50 DEGREES HERE TODAY... ALL THE ICE IS MELTING IN FRONT OF MY EYES! He He! - God has a sense of humor I think. What was, one week ago, a frozen wasteland, is today bright and full of sunshine and the promise of new growth soon to come... literally and figuratively.

I have chosen a new IC - the first one is counseling a friend of mine & I felt there might be conflict... and this one, well I have resisted her b/c she is so "clean" and "good" and I was afraid I would send her screaming in terror at my boxes of worms. But, I read something today, "You will enter into strength through sorrow." (T.D. Jakes), and I figure, if there is shame in the telling of my "stuff" - maybe that's b/c some of the stuff is shameful, and I need to FEEL that in order to get on the other side of it.

...and, I am going to do one more, "are you sure" check with my H before March 7th - share with him what I'm learning and where I am. And, guess what - I'm not going to predict his answer! No DJs here! My part is to ask, his part is to answer, and then we continue walking. He will be in my life forever thanks to DD and we shall see.

For now, I am going to the gym regularly, getting my hair colored next weekend (a bit less hooker blonde), had 3 little girls filling my house with laughter yesterday, and fell asleep with an angel's head on my chest. (that would be the Punk!).

Y'all - there is light and hope and healing.
I am expecting potholes in the path and know this will be a long journey - but for the first time in my life, I am excited for the journey - not rushing to the finish line.

Have a great weekend.
God Bless!

~lostsheep

p.s. when I am sobbing and beside myself next week or whenever reality smacks me in the face again next - would someone please remind me of this post! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ok... I HATE the GF! HATE her!!!
H just came over to get the weight bench - I have a gym membership, he doesn't blah, blah, blah.
Anyway, he brings the GF over, who of COURSE brings a gift for DD - and doesn't have two words to say to me.. and I swear I want to slam the door in her face!!!!

Who the f does she think she is coming into my house??!! And of course I am nice and sweet and all of that b.s. when what I really want to do is shout, "You know he's still married, right? And yeah, I was a cheating wh***, but he is still mine!!!"

Which of course is not true - he stopped being mine the day I gave myself away.

But seriously, what does he SEE in her? I know what he sees in her - the polar opposite of everything that is me. And absolutely zero strings. UUUGHH - my sunny day, spoiled.

This bed that I have made for myself... it sucks a**!

...back to Ethics... isn't THAT cosmic irony - I'm studying Ethics this semester... HA!

Going to re-read what I wrote an hour ago & see if I can't lift myself back up a little bit. I am NOT entitled to have him "back". I am entitled to nothing where he is concerned. Stir and repeat.

~Baaaa <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

LS,

Ah, the rollercoaster. I am going to try and find the posts of a lady that came here years ago. She had a long term affair on her H. He found out, tried everything, but she would not end it. JUST before her divorce was final the fog cleared, but the divorce went through. She spent about a year and half her, working on herself, recalling why she married her H, and being avoided by him for a long time.

Just before Christmas one year they got together to talk about their children, older than yours, and the walls started coming down, and the next thing we know...they remarried. Another "sudden" turn around that took a year and half after the first "sudden" turn around just as she was divorcing after about 4 years of an affair, if memory serves me correctly.

For the life of me I cannot recall her name here on the board but I know it was separated by an underscore. I will think of it and give it to you. Here story was quite similar to yours.

Your H's eyes will open, perhaps after the divorce. But, you must remember that he endured 3 years of rejection before he moved out, and another year of your affair. During this time you had TWO men that loved you, and he had NO ONE who loved him. It will take time LS, and it actually may take the divorce so that things can be started over. It is entirely possible that he cannot face taking you back and appearing to be a spineless and weak as he thinks he would be if he kept this marriage going.

He knows but doesn't know that you know that your marriage died when you had the affair. What we have been talking about is rebirthing and rebuilding the marriage although legally you are still married. He may need a fresh start.

Don't worry about his Other Woman. She will or she won't work out and frankly that is not your call. He is carrying enough baggage that any long term relationship will be problematical.

Your approach should be as you first posted, full of hope for the future. You have a wonderful daughter, you have your work, your school and you are making it. Rejoice in these things while working on yourself.

Just a question that might help with the Why. What are you boundaries today, what are your moral stances, where do you draw the line in various activities. Start there, and then go back to why you see these things differently than you did when you started the A. Something may not have changed, but even your daughter is reaping the benefit of your fog clear days.

You are doing better than you think LS, and your future is brighter than you realize right now.

God Bless,

JL

Don't hate the GF...you do not need to be buddies with her... but she has done nothing wrong. You H was married by paper only and frankly it was just a divorce waiting to happen in your eyes too. Remember, you pushed him away. If he decides to come back... good for all of you... if not... you should try your best to get along with her.... but for now, distance is okay. It was rude of her to not say anything to you... but remember, this is awkward for her too.
And you figured it out Lostsheep... he isn't yours anymore... he may CHOOSE to be yours again... but for now, he is hers.
So, yes, stir and repeat... and add that there is no room in your heart anymore for hate... except for the OM.... learn to hate him. This is his life to live as he chooses right now... your only focus should be making YOU the best you can be... and pray that he will want that NEW person in his life.
MEDC

BTW.. I think you are doing very well.... this post excluded! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

MEDC - you never fail to make me smile...even in the midst of correction. Thanks!

JL - I know. I must let this go. I must let him go. And with it my desperate wish to be able to turn back time and make different choices and have my family back. DD was laying on my chest last night and all I could think is, "Oh baby, I am so sorry." I have told her - i mean not details, but I have told her that I hurt her Daddy very badly b/c I lied to him. And that i am so very sorry to her and to him. Maybe that was the wrong thing to do, but I felt like she needed to know - and particularly b/c of the lying thing.

Anyway - THAT is the regret that tears at me the most. That I have cost her a family.

Sigh. Well, back to homework so I can have some time left to read and learn about me.

Goodnight all. And thank you.

Not yet you haven't... for right now... we will just say that the family is in transition... where it winds up in the long run is what will matter most to her. You can still be your DD's hero. Fight for you! Fight for her... your H will notice... he will most definitely notice.

And remember... NO MEN IN YOUR LIFE. Only confide in women and keep all of your behaviors above reproach.

Breath.

Lostsheep,

I want you to read the posts by hopeful_person. Start with her last post here. It summaries her whole recovery. Then go read her first posts. You can get beyond the 250 limit, by setting time limits in the search function. She came her about 2002 or 2003 I think.

You will see things that will amaze you.

God Bless,

JL