Tell OMW via letter or phone call about the C, and that you told him never to C you again.

Change your phone #'s today. Some places will let you change once for free if you tell them you have been receiving unwanted phone calls from a person you know. Even if they charge a fee, it probably won't be more than about $30 or so - a small price to pay for peace of mind.

Change all other contact info, such as emails or IM accounts, today.

Send the certified letter to OM, and a CC to his wife, stating that you will call the police if he ever C's you again.

And ditto the wedding ring thing. You can only control yourself, not others. Conversely, they cannot control you. Your ring, your finger, your choice.

you guys are killing me!!!!!!!!

If I do something to upset the GF, H gets mad and it's all a wash....

Placating has ALWAYS been the way to "win" H... I don't know what else to DO with him! He doesn't LIKE me when I'm not "placating" and making everything right with his world... it's all I've ever done... until I stopped!!!!

I need to get some work done today... I'm just going to go through the motions 2day and we'll start fresh tomorrow.

Sorry Jl, but today requires a box.

no it is not a wash

wear your ring
you are married

Pep

Lostsheep... you did the right thing in my opinion. A ring and a piece of paper a marriage does not make. Continue the way you are going and you will stand the best chance of getting your H back.

"Placating has ALWAYS been the way to "win" H... I don't know what else to DO with him! He doesn't LIKE me when I'm not "placating" and making everything right with his world... it's all I've ever done...

until I stopped!!!!"


And about time, too!

Listen, this was me in spades with FWW for 20 years of marriage. I thought I was meeting ENs (well, now that I know they are called ENs) but what I was actually doing was feeding her entitlement.

I was a CA, of course. But fundamentally, I had no problems at all with my taker never getting anything. I had no problem with giving everything all the time. But FWW sure did. She became all taker. Everything became all about her. I poisoned her, in a sense, by not having boundaries and not expecting her to live up to all of her martital obligations.

I empathise with your BH finally taking something for himself. But you need to be careful here. You need solid boundaries in correct places, right now. Moving them around this early in your attempt to recover your M will only harm your own personal recovery, which then harms all your future relationships.

State what you want and why. Be honest.

Let your H look up to your ethics for a change.

It is about time he grew up in this regard, and it is about time he saw some personal integrity around him.

Administer this dose of medicine. How else will he learn to overcome his pernicious-need-for-placation disease?

With prayers,

she stopped when she started her affair... that was her point.



agreed

You aren't in this position because you pissed your WH off, it's because you had a 4 year affair. Show him you are committed to reconciling, and he won't care what the GF thinks. She's just a rebound anyway. Unfortunately, you are going to have to compete with her for now, but he doesn't really LOVE her, he loves you. She just has a clean slate of never hurting him. If your H complains about you wearing your ring, tell him why you are wearing it, and how you don't want to go through with a D. If he wants to, he can file the petition and get it done. Like I said before, placating your H will do nothing. This will just allow him to fence-sit. However, LOVING your H and standing up for your M will.

LS.. If I were your BH and you stopped the petition now, I would never attempt a reconciliation. Never. I would think this is just another way that you are disrespecting me. I would want you to share your feelings and let me make up my mind if I want things to proceed or not.
That you are still vulnerable to other men should tell you that you are not ready yet to be fully back in the M.
I think the plan you have been doing so far is best. Focus on you. Recognize that the divorce petition does not need to mean the end of your time together. Respect your H's right to make decisions that impact his life right now and do not throw him any curves at this late juncture. If he wants the divorce delayed or stopped, he will let you know since you have already let him know your wishes. Respect his right to walk away if he so chooses.... and do not make the whole divorce petition process begin again... he will resent you for that.
Also, do not make assumptions about his relationship... this is about you fixing you right now...not worrying about the nature or status of his relationship....it is what it is. It might be love, it might be a rebound... either way, your work is the same.
Clearly state your wishes, your plan and then follow through with it. After 4 years of emotionally abusing him, your H deserves to have things the way he wants them right now...make it easy for him to choose what he wants and you stand a shot of him picking you. Throw him curves right now... make this more difficult and expensive for him and you will lose whatever chance you have left with him.
Keep working your plan.
I have been in your H's shoes and didn't get the respect that you are giving him right now. It is very important that he knows he can trust you... and if you pull the petition he will most assuredly see that you are going to do what YOU want regardless of his feelings. He will not see that you are hanging on to the marriage, IMO, he will feel that he is being blindsided.

MEDC

I don't see that at all.

Go back and read some of her first posts on her initial thread: HERE

I see very little enabling, but plenty of manipulation. Right up until he left after the what, third DDay.

However, it might be in here somewhere and I missed it. LS, when did you stop being his parent- as opposed to simply disconnecting during your affair?

BTW, multiple DDays have a huge, probably permanent, effect on BS. Read this: Overcoming Resentment

Especially this paragraph: "In fact, when a couple goes through a recovery after an affair, and then experience another affair, the resentment is often more intense and more persistent after the second recovery. With multiple affairs and recoveries, resentment is almost impossible to overcome. But then, in those cases I usually feel that the emotional reaction of resentment is not irrational at all. Emotions are telling the person that it's not a good idea to continue the relationship, and I would agree."

Your BH's emotions are yelling something rather loudly at him, not you. Have been for a long time. I wonder if you can begin to defuse his underlying resentment.

With prayers,

my point is... and I think what she meant was... she stopped making "everything right in his world" when she had an affair. Perhaps I am wrong.

LS,

I want you to remember a few things that will score you points when dealing with any BH (I would know).

1. Show lots of admiration to your BH. Tell him how good he looks, compliment him on how good a father he is, thank him for taking care of stuff, etc.

2. Make him feel wanted physically. Always dress up when you see him, flirt with him, let him know that you WANT him sexually in subtle ways, etc.

3. Go out of your way to show your BH that you are no longer in contact with the OM. He is past the point of snooping anymore, so you need to provide assurances that the A is no longer active.

4. NEVER defend the OM. In fact, if the subject of OM comes up, go out of your way to say what a POS the guy is and how stupid you were to allow yourself to be used by him. The more you trash talk OM, the more your BH will think that A is over for good. You also might want to drop in how well your BH treated you.

5. NEVER blame your BH for the state of your M. Your BH does not want to here how he wasn't meeting your EN and how it made you vulnerable to an A. You need to take full responsibility, state how you were completely wrong, and how you know how sh*tty it must have made him feel. A BH will start to think that his WW is a FWW when he hears her say these kinds of things. Do not get frustrated that he is not meeting your ENs or that he just hasn't forgiven and forgotten yet.

6. Fight for him. There is nothing that a BH wants more than to feel wanted by the opposite sex again. If YOU make him feel wanted again, he'll have no use for his GF.

I'm confident that you can pull this off, LS, but you need to let him know how you feel. If you don't say anything and just stall on the D, he may not even know your true intentions. Let him know that you are going to do whatever it takes to win him back and keep from ripping your family apart.

When did I stop being H's "parent"? Ummm yesterday? Really - about three to four months before he left. I was just exhausted. It was hard work keeping things "pretty" enough at home to keep the A secret.

In fact, when I was over there tonight picking up the Punk he got mad b/c I didn't want to drive out of my way (I have a headlight out and didin't want to go through town & risk a ticket) to return movies that he rented to watch with his GF and forgot to take back. Lostsheep has always done things like that - even after he left.
It was just what always "worked".

He told me tonight, he wants me to "honor his wishes this last time" referring to not postponing the divorce. He is willing to sit down with me this week and let me tell him what I have learned and the remorse I feel, etc, but he says, "I did try. I tried for years."

And I told him I have never wanted this, that I want our M, that I know I ****** it all to he!!, but that this outcome was never what I wanted, that I have been telling him that since he asked me to file. But he insists that this is what he wants and he asks me to "honor" that.

So what else can I do, but honor and respect him - finally - after four years.

JMWC,
He very much enjoys the fact that I am still attracted to him... and he wants nothing to do with me.
It does not sway him one bit. He needs to make sure I know what he felt. And I get that.

I have been doing everything I know how to do - Plan Aish things... and at the end of the day, he wants to be divorced. He wants to drive his new sports car and be with his (10 years younger than him) GF, and not have to worry about me hurting him again.

And this is where he is. And I know this man well.

Listen - I can manipulate him easily - I know all the tricks and I am GOOD at it. If I really wanted to work it that way, I could probably convince him.

But don't we all agree that he deserves better?
Don't we all agree that a sheep trying to live a life of integrity can't go around manipulating people to get her way?

Honor his wishes I will. It will be made clear that it is NOT what I want and that by going through with it I am doing it ONLY to honor his wishes - b/c I think he NEEDS me to show him that.

To the OMW... so that was a fun phone call.
After a string of angry profanity, she suggested that i was FOS and only calling to try and mess things up and haven't I done enough already and if I think this "stunt" is going to get him back I am nuts and don't ever call her again.

So that went well.
Of course, it should have the desired effect - OM will be ticked. Fine - they can be ticked together.

So. Thank you all for rushing in when I had a moment today.
Thank you for all of the advice over the past few weeks.
MEDC, are you my H? B/c you have nearly quoted him.

Working my plan. Planning my work.
Goodnight.

Lostsheep,

There are some things missing here, and I think they lead to why? You said
LS, I think you are hearing from a man, that probably loves you but who is DONE. He did try and he tried for years during your A. It did not make any difference. WHY?

Further, you admit you can manipulate him, he knows you can manipulate him. You and he know you did it during your affair so that he would not leave while you had your affair. WHY?

I think he has to leave because you are someone he loves and fears. And the fact that he fears you is very very evident. Do you want to be someone that your loved ones fear? If not, WHY did you do this to him? Yes, that dreaded WHY?


WHY did you want the marriage, even in the affair? WHY, did the marriage mean so much to you and so little to you? You need to figure this one out. It is part of the WHY?


I agree.


LS, within this post are surfacing the reasons WHY? You are starting to see the issues, but you are not ready to face them yet. You may well, have another chance with your H even after divorce, but it will make no difference until you know the answers to the WHYs I have posted and more. You did something counter to your OWN desires if I am to believe these quotes, but you did it anyway. IT suggests that your desires were no and are not as clear as you think. It suggests that you had strong motivation...internally and perhaps externally.

Please think about these things. Your future depends on you understanding yourself.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Good work on telling OM's W.

lost

i still wish you would reconsider your decision to let him go

my H has done to me everything that you have done to your H

if you've read my threads, i think you'll agree

his affair has lasted for as long as yours, and we had one false recovery

like your H, i have tried and tried for years to show him that I have changed, so that maybe he will want to change his thinking about our marriage

and just like your H, one day, i may have to make some hard choices, not because i want to, but because...

i may grow tired of waiting and hoping and praying and i may just have to accept in my heart that he isn't ever coming back to me

or, i may get tired of being lonely and rethink my beliefs about moving on to a new relationship

who knows, i may even get so angry that he has done this to both of us......that i may file for D

that's NOT where i am or can even imagine being, but.... anything is possible

but if any of this happens, it won't be because I don't love him anymore

i will ALWAYS love him. he is the person that i CHOSE to spend forever with. my FIRST choice. my forever love.

Because of this, i know, that even if any of those things happen,

if he changed his mind and realized the mistakes that he had made and was willing to do the hard work that reconciliation takes.........and he showed me this in his words and actions

if he fought to be given the chance to rebuild our marraige

if he found the strength to do whatever he could possibly to do prove to me that he still loved me

my heart would lead me in the right direction

even if i resisted, even if i tried to tell myself and him that it wasn't going to ever happen

if he didn't give up...if he plan A'd ME

his efforts would make deposits in my love bank. BIG deposits...because i had wanted them for so long, from HIM, they would mean so much

and soon, those feelings of "love" that will always be in my heart for him would increase until my love bank would overflow.....and i believe we would fall in love again

for me, the hardest thing to overcome, would be a final D sought by him

to accept that he was so sure that he was done with me and wantedme out of his life that he was actually able to take that step, well i'm afraid that might be the one thing that could build a wall around my heart so strong that even HE might not be able to break through

just wanted to give you the perspective of a BS who has been in the same place as your H

of course, my thoughts and feelings are my own as are his

but it something you may want to think about

lost

i had an idea, would you be willing to try to call the harley's radio show to get Bill Harley's advice on what you should do?

(the link with the live show call in times is listed on the menu at the top of the page)

you knowwhat, there is someone else here that i'm going to suggest that to also.

if you do call, i've heard him say (on a rebroadcast)that it is helpful for you to send and e-mail with a summary of your situation before your call

think about it.....professional MB help fast and free!

Nope, but I have walked in his shoes. So, that is why I have told you to follow the advice given. That is why I asking you to not follow the advice given by well intentioned people here since it will only be another insult to your H.
But I will also tell you that so long as his relationship with his GF is not a "forever" thing (and I assume it is not... but I don't know)you will have another chance with him so long as you keep working your plan. No more men, counseilng and integrity. I must say I am very proud of you for your decisions and actions of late. Even if things do not work out with him... I will venture a bet that you will make a great partner to someone else down the road.

MEDC

LS:

About this:




Actually it did go well.

Cause and Effect:

OM calls you...

You Call OMW....

He's in trouble, and remembers it next time he wants to call you.

Stay Strong.

Be the STAR!

LG

JL,
I'm feeling even more lost... b/c I'm not sure I know what you are getting at... but I will think about it.

It's worrisome, b/c I feel like many of the other questions you have posed I have been able to understand and have some lightbulb moments....

but these - these really throw me.

LS,

These are not trick questions, but they may be hard to answer. It just seemed that based on the post I was refering to, some obvious Why questions came up. For example tried for a long time, but it made no difference to you, WHY?

Did you not respect his effort? Did you not want his effort? Did you not see his effort? Did you not care if he gave any effort? Were you fed up with him? The WHY is lying in there. You see what you need to grasp is what you were thinking during those times, and why his efforts did NOT make any difference.

I think the same goes for the other questions. I don't have anything specific I am driving you toward at all. NO agenda. But, as you look inward, and the look out toward your H as he was before the A, as he was during the A, as he is now, you should begin to see why you let your boundaries get crossed.

It is really just asking you the same questions in different context.

Hope that helps.

God Bless,

JL

JL

isn't the "why" because she was addicted to the feeling the OM gave her so nothing her H could do would be worth giving up that high

and now that the good feelings from OM are gone she's beginning to recover from the addiction and again able to "feel" good things about her H?