Advice needed: (am I doing the right thing?)

Two of my daughters have left me to go stay with their dad.
They have done this a few times before and have never stayed away long - they only end up staying with him about a week.

They want me to relinquish any and all authority over them because they think they're 'old enough' now (15 & 19).

PLUS they think they're old enough to have authority over me and my home (not just themselves) trying to boss me around.

They threaten to leave and go stay with their father and when I don't back down they sometimes call him to come 'rescue' them.

I know they have used the obvious fact that I wanted so much to keep what's left of our family together and happy as leverage.

When they want to come back they verbally agree to the household rules and to show me respect... and even behave for a while... but then they pull the same routine again.

This time I called them the next day to tell them that I was putting all my furniture in storage and moving out of the house. I really can't afford the house anyway and oldest daughter and I could get by in a small apartment.

I conceded that yup they probably are too grown up to need a Mommy anymore. I admitted it made me sad, but just like my failed attempt to keep my husband/marriage, I now need to accept that my attempts to keep the family together simply won't work. That like it or not I was entering the 'empty nest' part of my life and that being a homemaker/(mostly) stay-at-home mom part was over. I said I was a single parent for 5 years - not by choice - and that any additional parenting they might need I was confident their father could handle (BIG FAT LIE BTW) I also said from now on I don't want to live with anyone that doesn't want/choose to live with me. I didn't like feeling as if I had to beg first my husband, then my daughters to stay with me. And it was hurting me too much to have them resent having to live me.

Middle daughter didn't care - says she's just going to live with her dad for a month or so until she gets a job and can get her own place... She'd made it clear over the past couple of years that she was grown up enough to move out but that I wouldn't 'let' her because I wouldn't provide her with: car/computer/cellphone/food/college tuition (like 'normal' parents do LOL)

Youngest daughter was sobbing and saying "No Mommy - I'm coming back home - Daddy's just taking us down to Florida to see his relatives and then I'll be back"

I admit that did cause me to cry and say I was sorry but that obviously I was not capable of supporting her in the way she insists on, and that she should stay with her father - that she needs to let him take care of her now.

BTW she has been telling me for years that she's moving out as soon as she turns 16, hates living with me, but is 'forced' to because she has no other choice.

X called to tell me not to worry about money to keep the house - that he has money (he was recently laid off but mysteriously he NOW has more money to give me than before?!?!? Just as long as I do NOT move out of the house... I told him I didn't need to explain my decisions to him and that I had other reasons besides financial. 'Made' him angry... whatever.

MereMortal,

First of all I think you did fine in not letting teenagers determine rules and such for themselves or the household. They will someday see this for what it was, an act of love.

Secondly, I read something like this and I want to take every WS that chooses to break up a family and say "Yea, right, divorce won't harm the kids, they will be fine, don't worry about it..." That is BS (and this is not betrayed spouse abb.) and we see it here with your two daughters.

Wayward rebellios entitled behavior in authority figures or role models absoposilutely green lights it for children.

Wayward parents have bought their children a one way ticket to lifelong regret with their selfishness.

Doesn't a 16 yo need to be emancipated or something before they can move out on their own?

And why the "done for"?

It's a new chapter.

(((meremortal)))

With prayers,

BTW, at 16 I was a flaming sh** head. I announced my intention to move out, I forget what was so important that moving out on my own was a solution, and my dad just laughed and gave me more chores to do. And he sent me to work during the summer on my uncle's farm. Sure cured me of thinking I wnted to support myself with a menial job.

I thought I probably should add that the way my daughters are behaving is VERY familiar - it's the same way my X used to control me - keeping me in constant fear that he would leave if he didn't get his way. Also X was emotionally, verbally, and even eventually physically abusive with me.

I think that maybe it helps them to think his leaving was all my fault because the alternative is they might have to worry that he didn't love them enough to save his marriage/family from destruction?

If they admit I am somebody it is possible to get along with, live with, love even, then he didn't have a good enough reason for leaving us.

They seem to need to believe that he never would have left them if I wasn't their mother. It's a way for them to not deal with the hurt of his rejection? And they can only love/forgive him if they hate/blame me?

I (and the family counselor) have told them they don't have to choose sides, that it's OK to still love their Daddy, and to forgive him. But the (now) prefer to pretend he didn't really do anything requiring forgiveness. And they HAVE taken sides - against me, blaming me. I once read somewhere that there's no such thing as a no-fault divorce to a kid. That they HAVE to blame somebody. Unfortunately many kids blame themselves. I have always assured them it wasn't their fault AND that it wasn't that they didn't deserve better - that Daddy's problems prevented him from providing them with what they need from him. I even at times made excuses for him. I gave X 2nd, 34d, etc. chances, asking the kids to trust him and give him another chance too. But X would end up going back to OW and I was left to try to help the kids deal with it. So I don't understand how they can convince themselves he has no blame?

X was never responsible for anything he said or did - it was always my fault. Now daughters have same attitude.

Daughters constantly criticize me and complain about our lack - but I don't dare respond that the start of our financial problems coincide with when their father left us.
All attempts to make the best of it and try to enjoy what we do have are rejected by daughters.

Amen, amen, amen AND amen noodle......I will be fighting tooth and nail to keep my step daugthter (daughter to me) from becoming like her mother for the next 8 years. She lives with her mother and STILL MOM. I have full custody of my 2 yr old son and I will have much more influence on him. I worry each night at what her mother has and is teaching our "daughter" with her actions and behavior. Well at least she's happy (NOT from what I hear from daughter) and got what she wanted.

"Doesn't a 16 yo need to be emancipated or something before they can move out on their own?"

I'm not sure what the legality is here but I know of two different 16 year old girls who did: One moved in with a friend's family and has never stopped pretending that her friend's mother was a better 'mother'... the other ran away to be with a 30 year old man she met online! The police told her mother (a single mom - her only daughter) that they couldn't arrest the pervert or even make her daughter come back home because he hadn't taken her across state line!

Anyway, my daughters are nowhere near grown-up enough to manage living on their own. They just think by threatening to leave they can get me to allow them to stay at home minus my having any say about anything (even how I drive the car, arrange the furniture, silly stuff they see need to comment on). They apparently also believe it's my responsibility to support them after they move out and my unwillingness to do so (have made it clear that even if I could I wouldn't) is translated as I'm 'forcing' them to stay home.



And why the "done for"?

It's a new chapter.

Explanation for the 'Done For' comment:

I'm done with trying to provide the home-base.
I think it's time now to extinguish the lighthouse.

If/when they can agree to treat me with basice respect and live by the household rules (in no way extreme and the same rules almost all their friends have) then I think they should agree in writing this time. I will make a list...

BUT: I have decided to stop having any hope for that because I really don't think things will ever be the same again. They have known for too long that I was the ONLY one trying to keep the family together. And they have repeatedly exploited my having that as a goal as just some cards in their hand. I'm not a good bluffer. I REALLY had to get to the point that I think it's over now - my raising a family days are done for - before I could pull off telling them I've decided to give up my attempts to try to maintain a home for them.

The youth minister at our church says I should not even consider letting them come home unless they go through counseling with him.

I have also decided that no matter what, even if they totally fold and agree to all conditions (which I'm not even telling them now because I don't anticipate keeping the home anyway) then I will still insist they stay with their father at least a month. I read somewhere that it takes 21 days to establish new habits or break old habits.
They are never disrespectful, critical or rebellious with their father. Either they won't be able to keep that up with him for long and their father will have to start dealing with their problems OR they will get out of that pattern of behavior before they come back to me. No more staying with him only as long as they can pretend they're perfectly happy and then coming back to dump on me about everything they 'hate' about their lives.

I will not initiate any discussions with them over the possibility of them coming back home.

If/when they do bring it up I will not respond promptly.

My guess is they will just tell all his relatives I have abandoned them...

I will never again in my life try to talk ANYONE into being with me in any way.

IF they want to come home will have to try to talk me into it and they will have to describe what they will agree to.

Of course I will start a list but I will not offer up to them what the conditions are. They are not going to get to pretend I 'made' them agree to something they don't really agree is reasonable.

I predict that after a week or so, when X gets done taking them to Florida to visit his relatives, X will try to just bring youngest daughter home. X has some serious boundary issue distorted thinking STILL almost 2 years after divorce final! This isn't the first time he's tried to tell me where I need to live - that I can't move.

At times I've wondered if I'd have to stoop to conjuring up a pretend new man just to get him to finally realize there is no 'we' anymore and that 'we' don't make joint decisions (always concerning MY decisions of course - not HIS) But as I said - I'm bluff-challenged.

Youngest daughter will be more motivated to want to come home because of her friends here. She has told me many times that if her dad lived in this state and she could still be near her friends she would live with him instead of me.

I told her since my job search here has been so unsuccessful, that I might move to another state myself.

X wants me to stay right here, this house, this car, kids with me. Oh sure he comes and 'rescues' them if they rebel against me but he won't keep them - besides right now he's just renting a room in a former coworker's house and he's wothout a job!

Gives you an idea just how sure my daughters feel that they can coerce me to shut up and put up - running off to somebody who is less capable of providing them a home than I am right now?

X did make a cooment once that if I couldn't afford the house that he would move into it... Are daughters thinking that now that he lost his job he will move back home? They can live near their friends AND live minus Mommy's rules? Hmmmm...

If they think they are grown up enough to live on their own, let them. Start charging them rent, no more washing, cooking or cleaning after them. You will get more time and if they don't pay, then they can do more chores. Sounds like a win win sitch to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Give them the Sears catalog and let them see how much it costs to furnish their 'new place'. Take them shopping for new bedroom furniture and stuff but don't pay for it. Let them drool......

L.

Hi HopeandPray,

"Secondly, I read something like this and I want to take every WS that chooses to break up a family and say "Yea, right, divorce won't harm the kids, they will be fine, don't worry about it..." That is BS (and this is not betrayed spouse abb.) and we see it here with your two daughters."

Oh honey, my poor daughters went through ****** while the OWas still in the picture:

Oldest daughter totally quit skating - the love of her life.
Then she quit going anywhere, then she quit bathing. She ended up in the adult psychiatric ward of the local hospital for over two months. Has had virtually nothing to do with her father since D-day.

Middle daughter fared the best. I honestly feel most of her current lame routine is typical teen rebellion with the added kick of using my wanting to keep family together as leverage.

Youngest daughter was only 10 when her daddy chose OW AND OW's toddler daugther over us. She was replaced as daddy's littel girl and has never been the same since. 'Daddy' even gave her a birthday card about how she was 'all grown up now'! Jerk. She once told me: "When daddy's with the OW and her little girl and he turns his cell phone off, I fell like he's pretending I'm dead" When she told me she felt suicidal WH told me: "That's what suicide hotlines are for - don't bother us (he and OW) and hung up on me! She eventually started cutting herself. I made her start going to family counseling. She eventually stopped that but grew increasingly angry and started targeting me with her anger.

WH refused to acknowledge daughters were upset at all OR IF they were it must be my fault.

He only went to family counselor twice:

Once by himself and counselor told me all he did was sob about how OW might leave him because his job was ending and he might have to move to another state and OW wouldn't move away from her family and friends. (All my furniture was in storage for years while daughters and I moved around with WH's contract work - even lived in an RV for a few years)

Once he attended a session with me and yelled at me that I wasn't doing enough to fix daughters' problems. Counselor told him I was already doing all I could. That I was doing an excellent job as their mother.

Pure evil IMHO

Makes me sick

Hi Orchid,

Actually before WH moved out my daughters were quite proficient at household chores. Each was assigned a laundry color for the month and a meal for the month. For example, one of them might have wash, dry, fold and put away whites laundry all month. And plan, cook, clean-up after breakfast and brunch (2nd breakfast for we hobbits) all month. I helped each of them with everything - teaching them as we did chores together.

Then after D-Day (WH and OW showing up at stadium when we were there too - before that pretended OW was figment of my imagination) things changed.

Oldest daughter stopped doing anything, let alone chores, and ended up in hospital. Other daughters started using that as their excuse to not do chores either.

They started doing only their own clothes and would just go make themselves somethign to eat, sometimes cleaning up after.

Now their attitude is that I should do it all - PLUS work to support us. They make it clear they judge me as doing very poorly in both areas LOL

Oh and in their opinion (backed up by their father) the support he WAS paying me (now he's unemployed) translated to them being entitled to just live at home without having to do chores - like he's PAYING me to 'mother' them?

They want me to buy them a treadmill because it's too snowy to go jogging LOL

I think your daughters are just going through the normal "breaking away" from mom stuff. That is their job at this age. Let them go, but be prepared for them to come back soon. Then you can set down boundaries, and ENFORCE them.

The fact that they have a place to go makes it a bit more difficult, but you can do this.

I went through this with my oldest son, who announced he was moving to Oregon to live with the dad who had never paid child support or even bothered to stay in contact. It about killed me, but I let him go, and he begged to come back after 4 months.

Had problems with our step-daughter when she turned 15. She didn't want to go to school, and moved in with her mom, who cared less. She ended up never graduating from highschool.

i have only one thing to say... pleas dont reject your youngest daughter. she needs you. makes me teary just thinking about you saying no to her when she is asking for you.
you dont have to keep them all together. let the other two go if you feel that is right. but dont push away the one that wants to be with you. being rejected by her mother, will hurt her for the rest of her life.

techie,

Youngest daughter does NOT want to be with me - has been making that clear to me on pretty much a daily basis for a couple of years now.

She has told me repeatedly that the ONLY reason she stays with me is because I am the parent that lives in the same state as her friends.

So she 'has to' stay with me to see her friends and makes it very clear she resents it being that way.

She blames me for everything that she thinks is wrong with her life.

She yells at me, cusses at me, openly defies me, and even tries to boss me around my own home.

She wants to live with her dad BUT he doesn't live near her friends (plus he has never seriously considered having her stay with him for more than about a week - just to facilitate and reward her rebellion).

She has been using MY desire to have her live with me as leverage for her teenage rebellion.

What I'm saying now is that I'm willing to concede with her fog-talk that SHE doesn't want/need me in her life anymore, that my parenting days are over, and that she is free to move out, that I will no longer try to talk her into staying.

BUT IF she wants to come back home then she has to finally submit to my authority in my own home.

And THAT is what would be best for her after all.

So are they still with their father? I doubt that it will last long. Have you gone to counseling? This has to be extremely hard for you, and you need some support, because you are doing the right thing?

Are you and your husband still married?

Hi Believer,

I heard from middle daughter yesterday.
They are still with their father, visiting his relatives.
Still planning to stay with their dad.

I have gotten lots of support from my church family and one of my sisters.

The youth pastor at our church has stated that I should not let the youngest daughter come back home (when/if she asks to) unless she agrees to counseling with him. He has known us, and about the situation, for years and we all trust him.

I feel a teensy bit better about having to finally take this stand... I really didn't want it to ever come to this. I feel sort of like I'm having to Plan B my own dauthgter? It seems wrong and incredibly sad. But there was no longer any doubt whatsoever that she was employing the same sort of abusive manipulations her daddy role-modeled in front of her. MY wanting to keep the family together had become merely cards in her hand (in HER opinion). It really makes me feel creepy doing somethign like a Plan B with her but I at least am assured that I did the most excellent, 15 year long, Plan A first.

Still, I have to brace myself for the possibility that she may never come home again.

After all, her daddy didn't...

In that case, although I will be devastated, I will have to try my best to get on with my life: empty-nest phase.

I'm sure she will come home, and everything will be mended. I had varying degrees of problems with all 8 of my kids and step kids. When they hit adulthood (25), everything was fine.

I was the same way with my mom, and now I have apologized to her over and over, and we are extremely close.

The empty nest styndrome is difficult at first. But you need to find things to make you life wonderful again. It is like a rite of passage, and very unpleasant until you get the hang of it.

I suggest you also join a women's support group through your church or somewhere. Mine has really helped me.