Hmm...have you tried checking to see if their conversations extend beyond just talking at work? Does your wife have a cell phone? Can you view the bill to see if she's calling/texting any numbers extensively? What about IM/email services via a computer? Have you looked at her email account(s) to see if there's contact that way as well?

Taken a look at credit card receipts to see if they've spent lunches/etc...together?

Take a look at the "Spying 101" thread that was recently bumped up...might give you some ideas for seeing if there's more to this than you've learned so far.

A private conversation is in order here with the OM.

Bottom linme it is inappropriate for a man to discuss his issues with a married woman....PERIOD!!

The OM is looking for validation and comfort and guess what...your wife is doing this for him. She may feel it's all innocent, but she KNOWS it's not right. Technically it's OK in her mind since "Nothing has happened".

You'll begin to find as this progresses that your W, soon to be WW, will start to treat you differently. She will become indifferent, and accuse you of being insecure, smothering and accusatory.

Check her phone records NOW. I'll bet they are having off-work topic conversations out of the workplace and after work hours.

My FWW had her calls first thing when she woke up...texts all day, another call on the way hoome from work, then sometimes a very late night good night honey call.

Expect to see her guarding her phone and keeping it with her at all times if this goes to an EA which she already has begun the first step.

TM,

For your own good - DON'T let your wife or anyone else know that you are here on this site. This is your place for now. Your wife may come here later, but first you need to learn here.

We're not tying to keep this away from your wife per say, but if she found out right now she would think that you are going behind her back and get mad at you for it.

You are only tying to work on your M.

TM, I was just worried when I read that you "told her she doesn't get it" because it's likely she'd take that as disrespect. So good thing that's not what you said to her.

Married people working with members of the opposite sex need to consciously maintain boundaries at work and not just physical ones. The late Shirley Glass refers to these boundaries and their absence as "walls" and "windows" in her book NOT "Just Friends", which has a sort of emphasis on affairs begun in the workplace. Not rocket science exactly but worth reading.

If your W complained about feeling unattractive to Danny Divorce, then their conversations are getting much too intimate. This level of intimacy in conversation should be reserved for you. With him she should have a "wall" there, with you she should have a "window". For him to have known she feels unattractive before you did... unacceptable. Plus, it seems like she was fishing for a compliment from him, which she got. That's playing with that boundary. Testing the fence, see how it feels to cross it a little.

It is not just about your feelings and that would be a dishonest way to discuss it. It's not fair to call it "jealousy". You have legitimate concerns. Most romantic affairs start in the workplace and your wife does not appear to have kept good boundaries with this dude.

GC

well said graycloud

Well I think I effectively ruined V-Day probably forever.
I delivered the flowers right at quitting time and she was supprised, she immediatly called as me checking up on her.

I met Danny divorce, he was pleasant and we talked about our kids for a little bit. I didnt mention the D, just didnt have the cajones with her listening.

We went to get some food and that is when I asked her in a very polite matter of factly way if she thought that her conversation with him was appropiate.
She said that she didnt got to him asking to talk he offered it her and she didnt want to be rude. I told her that she didnt have to read the docs or talk to him about it, especially after hours with a sick kid at home. She started to get pretty mad.

I did my best and asked her again if she were in my shoes how would she feel, she said she probably wouldnt like it. I asked her about certain aspects of the convo, like the part about there sex life and she said it was in a jokeing manner, I told I didnt think it was funny and that she should be talking to another man about this.

She then started to say that she cant believe that I was acting like this. That he talks to everybody about this and if anyone down there knew how I was acting they would laugh at me and I was embarrassing myself. I asked her if it was too much to ask to have boundaries. She said I was treating her like a ****** and she hadnt done anything. I told her that its a fact that 70% of affairs happen at work, just look at a close freind of ours, 20yr M wasted because WW got involved with a WH.

She said obviously that I have thought about this way more than she has.

Anyway thats how is pretty much went, she thinks I am trying to control her and she hasnt done anything wrong, and that I am going through a mid life crisis. And that she should be able to talk to anybody about anything. The whole time she kept telling me that she hadnt done anything and she got very upset,it was a long night. She said she wouldnt tell me anything or confide in me anymore and that I was pushing her away. And she wasnt going to take any blame in this.

All I wanted was some boundaries, all I wanted was her to stay out of his personal business, was that too much to ask.

No she thinks I dont trust her and that I was treating her like a ****** or like she cant control herself. I never put her down and I never accused her of actually doing anything, I just thought that was inappropiate. She never saw it from my perspective.

She said if I make a scene at her work or "do something I'll regret" its over.
I dont know, I may have shot myself in the foot, but I couldnt just let it go.

She wont go to counseling, she doesnt belive in it.
And I would never tell her about my posting her.
I dont even know where we stand. She mentioned giving her time to find another job, but I dont know if she is serious, probably not.
The past weeks that this has become and issue after my initial break down about it, I started to pray for help in dealing with this. And I was doing good taking it one day at a time. I was trying to be good to her, bought her stuff, took her out, tried to be there for her, maybe too much I guess.
She said she doesnt care about his problems, and that Im pushing her away and I'm gonna mess us up.
So its back on me always back on me.
I dont know what to do.

Damn, this sure does sound familiar. My W separated from me though.

I've been told there is only one reason she is being defensive like she is. My W turned everything back around on me as well. They know what they are doing is wrong but won't admit it.

I'm thinking about confronting the OM this weekend. I'm also thinking about the possibility of exposure at their work. Something's gotta give and I don't want it to be my marriage.

just wanted to say... during all this stress between you... keep being the best husband you can be. Try not to make it always about the conflict you are having.
dont ignore the issue... but i would suggest trying to keep it as minimized as possible. Keep showing her that you love her, and that there are good reasons to choose YOU.
No-one wants to be with someone they fight with all the time.
So try to make sure you have lots, and lots, of positive non-fight time.

I dunno, but from reading all that, my first impression is that she's likely actively involved in at least an EA with at guy, and you're being "gaslighted". Think of what she said again - did anything she expressed suggested that she was even slightly concerned about how you felt, or was she more concerned about excusing her behaviour and chastising you about yours?

I suggest treating her like a WS. Plan A, while trying collecting evidence of the A, then expose if necessary.

Hi TM. I think you should be worried but I also think that your fear has you approaching this the worng way. She is being defensive because you are making her that way. If you approached her the way you said here it would be very hard to make her see things from your prespective.

What you need to do it make it about you instead about her. When you come at anyone in a way that makes them feel like they are under attack do you think they will try and see things from you POV or defend themselves against your attack?

I think the best thing you can do is tell oeher that you know she is doing a very honorable thing that only the sweet woman that you have come to know and love is capable of doing and trying to help someone through a hard time it's not you that I am concerned about it's him. I am a man and I know how we think. I trust you and I know you would not do anything to hurt me and our kids it's his intentions that frighten me. Just like I know how great a woman you are I know I am not the only person that see this in you and I don't want to lose you. So please just to give me peace of mind will you ask him to not involve you in his personal life. I hope this helps. This is just my opinion. Coming from a woman that does not like to feel controlled if my husband came to me in this manner it would get my attention. Also why don't you print copies of the LB q'aire and EN Q'aire for you and your wife and do them with her and met more of her needs and less LB and the other man won't stand a chance with yor wife. It's not really the other man you have to worry about but yourself and if you are doing the things that push her away or bring her closer to you. My .02 cents Goodluck.

MB

"She said if I make a scene at her work or "do something I'll regret" its over."

This just doesn't sound like a normal thing to say. It just strikes me wrong I guess.

If your wife had NO feeling for OM and only for you, how would she respond to your concerns? I bet a little differently. Something like:

"Honey, I never knew this bothered you this much. Please don't think for one min that I have any feeling for OM. We work togther and thats it. Sure he talks about his life some. I will let him know that I don't want to talk about that anymore and that I'm happy with my H"

Maybe help her look for a new job if she offered.

i agree very strongly with maryamb (and anyone else giving you the same msg.)

it is really imporant that you approach this in a way that does not get her defensive!!

re-reading your post....

i really think it would be good for you to very strongly get the msg across that she has done nothing wrong. In order to help her get out of defense mode.

her responses to you seem very strong "She said if I make a scene at her work or "do something I'll regret" its over"

it's over???

that tells me that perhaps the state of your marriage is shakey...

the fact that she got very upset says she was also frustrated that you were not hearing her.

the fact that she was talking to you before says volumes to the fact that she is not trying to hide anything, so she is not doing anything wrong.

yet at the same time, she is, unknowingly, damaging your marriage and hurting you.

it may sound unfair but you really need to step up and lead the way here.

there is so much to learn on this site.

FL,
I'm not sure i understand your POV here at all??

TM is simply trying to reiterate and define HIS boundaries with respect to his W having these convos with OM. I don't see that as disrecpetful or contolling at all. He has a right to these boundaries, and they are in fact, good ones to live with.

His w is already being defensive of her inappropriate behvvior with OM and hs threatened her H to back off or "it's all over."

Sounds very much to me like a person who know's they are wrong but wishes to continue regardless.

"Controlling" is a synonymn for "exposing" what is wrong and inapporiate. I think TM, as her H, hs every right to hold his W's inappropriate behavior with OM and not be accused of being "controlling."

Wish I had done the same before my W beacame a WW.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

my post came across wrong. I was not telling TM that he is being too controlling. I was trying to say, given that his wife is in defensive mode, the first thing that needs to happen to allow them to have good communication is to get her out of defensive mode.

i agree with you, she is crossing dangerous boundaries. and i absolutely agree that he has every right to define and enforce his boundaries.

i just think they will get no where constructive while she is being so defensive.

does that make sense?

trust me, with all we've been thru, NOTHING would make me happier to see that someone received advice here that helped avoid the A nightmare.

i am really hoping he has spotted this before anything really bad has started and i am really hoping he can find a way to get thru to his wife.

Thanks FL,
I gotcha now.
But here is something to think about:


It's that defensive attitude that has me a bit concerned. TM needs to know that his w is completely willing to give up this R because her M to TM is soooo much more important. This is not individualism or any such hogwash. A M is about two people becoming one. Where is the oneness in this type of behavior???

Thanks for your reply, and TM, Press on my friend, complete yor goal.

All Blessings,
Jerry

her defensive attitude has me very concerned.

and as one woman who screwed up her life so horribly by making really bad choices, i'ld really like to see TM help his W not do the same. for her sake, his sake and the marriage and their kids!!

i can relate to his W, I would not of understood before either. i see now that I caused a lot of damage (outside of the As I had) because i did not get some really important stuff. my DH had some valid concerns early on in our marriage, that i didn't understand and dismissed. the disrespect he felt resulted in him choosing to disconnect, etc etc

ST I have to say that he should worry that his wife is trying to protect the OM but if he goes about it the wrong way by LBing he will get just what he is afraid of.

If he goes about logically w/out the fear of losing her then he will be able to think and handle the sitch in way to get him the results he wants.

My H has a way of treating me like I am one of his childern instead a capable adult, when all he has to do is say for example. Hey baby I feel... I would like...make it about the issues themselves instead of about what he feels I am doing wrong I would be a lot more open to hearing what he has to say and giving him want he wants.

It's about respect he has to treat her like an adult instead of a willfull child who needs to be berated for making a mistake.

If he is really worried she will stray all he needs to really do is state his fears and or concerns to his wife in a third person non threatening manner then leave it alone and Plan A meeting her EN and not LBing and he can't lose. This is what A's are all about anyway. The WS getting a need met just from someone other than their S. Just my .02

MB

How you doing TM??

TM,
Please go get
Surviving an Affair (SAA) and
Love Busters (LB) by Willard Harley

Mrs. TM sounds like she is in an EA with DannyD. In order to restore and protect you marriage, you will need to helpt her extricate herself from this EA. SAA will help you do put together a plan and LB will help you learn how to communicate with her to not put her on the defensive. Please do not hesitate.