FLT2H

I wasn't trying to bring TM down. I apologize for my flippant "best of luck". BUT, TM has a serious problem on his hand. His wife obviously has no respect for him or their M witnessed by her snide remarks, threats and unwillingness to understand his position. She is on the verge of an Affair, IMO and if not now later as she has all the signs of entitlement, selfishness, arrogant, etc.

I truly do hope TM is able to discern enough good information here that will help him in his situation. Thanks to you and others for helping him.

TM,
How is it going for you? Have you read up on PlanA and are you working on it? This relationship should be considered an Emotional Affair based on your WW threat that if you make a scene, it's over. What she is saying is that at this point, she cares more about this relationship than she does your relationship. It's not too late, but please read SAA, LB and start PlanA'ing her.

i could not agree with you more!!!

Please don't do nothing TM!!!

Work on your marriage and communication with your wife now.
Don't make it just about this one thing, as important as it is. Make it about your relationship with her in general.

Im thinking about getting that book. Im trying plan A, but the first step that I read is total separation, I dont know if i can get that. I have been trying to work on our M, doing stuff for her around the house. Trying to be upbeat, trying to be there for her. Trying not to be demanding. I have been listening to her, not putting anything a head of her.

There is a close family member that went through this as the WS and I think that it was a similar sitch, should I get this person involved by talking to them about it and seeing if they could talk to her? If I do thats basically some sort of exposure and she will be really pissed, and may back fire, I dont know.

She WILL be really pissed. You are raining on her fantasy world where it is always sunshine. I would not involve others at this point, make it about you two. Plan A also includes you assessing yourself HONESTLY and looking at your behaviors that have made this EA possible. It is not your fault that Mrs TM is in an EA, but you share in the responsibility for the state your M where it is possible. Set the stage by eliminating your LB behavior and creating positive feelings in yourself for yourself. Mrs. TM will notice this, she may not "trust" these changes as she may see them as an attempt to manipulate her, but if you have honestly assessed your behavior, you will be making changes for YOU, not her. It will be a a side benefit that she will probably like the changes too.

no, no, no, that is NOT Plan A!!! You must of been reading about Plan B.

Oh, ok, i see what you read,


But keep reading... It's not like you are to do nothing until she agrees. Plan A is a description of things to do to help her decide on no contact.

That entails stopping all LBs and working on knowing and meeting her ENs.

Unfortunately i have to run right now, any others out there able to point TM to detailed explanation of Plan A?

Look at the Carrot and Stick of Plan A, i just bumped it up for you.

ok I been doing plan A for a while and everything was going good for a while.
then I noticed a change a few days ago. she didnt want to talk about them. she said she didnt care about that and that she doesnt go there for gossip. that made me feel good. but then she tells me that he still is talking to her about it sometimes.
then i noticed that she seems a little more distant too. our intimate life has changed a little too. i asked her if she would tell him to stop it and she said no again that it would be rude. she keeps insisting that nothing is happening or will and that I am pushing her away, and I have changed, she wont do counseling, i had a really bad day, my anxiety level is extremely high.

i dont have any solid evidence of anything, but I feel the urge to expose something. i cant afford any real survielance and i'd probably get caught, i dont know what to do. i want to tell him to leave my wife the ****** alone.
why wont she be considerate of me?

also she told me that she is not talking to him about us or any of her problems. she did admit that if she was to go to him and flirt and confide in him that she could probably get with him, but she said that would never happen. i told her that meant she was too close but she didnt see it my way and makes it out like I'm freaking out on her.

anyone have any advice on this? i guess I need to just try to get proof of something since she wont put a stop to it huh? I am trying to make my plan a better but I feel that this threat will never go away and I will always be in fear of that last step on the slope.

TM,

You need proof - we already know what's happening here. Her retreat from you .. from being intimate with you is proof enough to us and should be to you - that you're wife is actively involved in an EA, possibly a PA. She's entangled. I think most of us would agree on that point. You need proof though.

Here is your plan.

1. Continue to Plan A (really, seriously, work on yourself - not just for her sake, but for your own sake - how could you improve yourself - in several areas - where are you lacking? Are you taking care of yourself? Do you respect yourself? .. really get yourself centered!)

2. Don't LB .. ..ever.

3. Stop mentioning the OM, don't bring him up, don't mention his name, don't probe your wife about him, don't pump her for information about their relationship, let her believe that you've dismissed the whole "OM" concept .. and you aren't really concerned about that anymore..lead her to believe it's a non-issue for you now .. and your past that (Although you're not) .. don't bring it up .. if she' ..brings it up..or even mentions anything regarding the OM ...quickly dismiss it with a nonchalant attitude ..

Theres a reason for this. If your wife is involved..and she knows that your onto it .. she'll up the level of secrecy .. making it harder to detect .. let her relax..if she's relaxed..and she knows that you're relaxed - then she won't be as cautious .. making finding the proof you need all the easier ..

All the while ...

4. Stealth mode. Tap the phones, install key loggers on your computers, go to Radio shack and get a voice activated recorder .. start monitoring your wifes activity..start checking the cell phone records..what routines for her have changed? Does she keep a journal - if so - read it. Search, don't leave any rock unturned .. Is she going on errands more frequently? Girls-night out? etc? Is there a glitch in the matrix? What about her actions..her routine..is it off-kilter and out-of-the-ordinary? Do you find that she's making more excuses to get away .. to be alone .. ?

5. Don't get caught snooping .. it changes the whole dynamic of the plan - making this whole ordeal all-the-more difficult.

6. Don't feel guilty for spying / snooping .. it may be a natural reaction .. but this is for the greater good..for your marriage..and because you love her..deeply...

Good luck to you sir, keep us posted.

inshock

TM,
How are you doing?

I have just re read your entire thread, and I am still very concerned for your sitch. What has been happening in your interactions with your W?



Uncanny!! Exactly what my FWW told me after Dday. She told me that she had known for two yers, that he would have her in bed had she choose to do that. Laughable, isn't it? I simply asked her, why then, didn't you leave this place and find a new job? She had no answer.

This is exactly what I'm trying to convey to you. Your W sits on top of the fence and has erroniosly convinced herself that she is somehow immune to be unfaithful. My W did the same thing. This is exactly what DR. H means by a spouse failing to defend the M from his/her own weakness. The weakness is somehow believing that you are immune from falling into that trap!!!!!

TM, since your efforts to convince your W of the vunerability of this M have been, largely, unsuccesful, I believe it is time to involve a third person, as in a pro marriage counsiler, to assist both you and your W. There needs to be an intervention of sorts, by someone else who will bring a new prospective to what is happening. Your W thinks, as mine did, that you are somehow this crazy jealous H who makes no sence. You will not convince her otherwise, ie, you need an outside party to confront her with the same conclusion. This takes the heat off you, as you will not be LB or heaping DJ on her. It may wake her up!

I do wish you the best in all of this, and will continue to read and post, if you so desire. Your W's sitch is so close to mine that I'm trying desperately to intervene before you end up in my sitch.

All Blessings,
Jerry

I will try ISM's plan, it will be hard though. I've already started stealth mode, its scary, it dont want to get caught. My main problem is if something is happening its more than likely going on during the day. After hours is pretty limited.

She doesnt believe in counseling at all, doesnt think I need one either. I thought about going to the other family member that was a WS and see if they would talk to her without telling her I said anything, but I think thats too risky.
I bought the book by shirley glass, its pretty good, thought about getting another one and dropping it off anonymously at her work in a public area, that would be the ultimate stealth job.

Sometimes I catch her just staring off, seems like something is bothering her sometimes, seems like shes been having some weird dreams lately, doesnt tell me about them but she makes more noise when she just falls asleep. I may be reading more into that, but there is related stuff that I really cant post about.

When I ask her whats wrong she accuses me of trying to analyze her.

ST, if you dont mind me asking, was your M pretty stable before the A?

edit ps: thanks for the replies guys, this has really been my lifeline.

Hi TM,

Sorry I can't be here all day long, but someone has to work and pay taxes, right <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.

I see you have bought into ism's plan. This is good as it is a good plan. Has lots of good stuff in there. Nice going, ISM!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

TM, if you care to answer, could you give a little background info? Like how long you have been M'd, How old are the two of you, any children, etc.... You don't have to answer this if you care not to.


She will see through this in a new york minute! She will know it was you. This would be a bad idea and would represent a LB and DJ to her from you. Don't do it!!!!!!

How far along into "Not Just Friends" are you? Did you read how the WW in this book had no
intention of being unfaithful to her H? They all say the same thing: "It just HAPPENED!"

bs! Nothing in life just happens. It occurs through a series of events and circumstances that could have been avoided if wise judgement were employed. This is where boudaries come in. Boundaries are what keep us from crossing that line in the sand.


Well as far as I was concerned it was. We had been M'd for 30 plus years and raised a family together. Sure, we had our squabbles from time to time. Show me a M that doesn't. But the bottom line is, my W failed to protect herself from HER WEAKNESS at the time.

Keep Possting,
All Blessings,
Jerry

ST, yeah I know what you mean about working, stuff like this makes it hard though.
I'm trying to keep alot of identifiers out of my story on the off chance that this site gets found out but here is the gist of it.

Married over 10yrs
2 kids (in school)
In our mid 30's
She just started working again after a few years of being a SAHM.

I at pg 86 in the book, I have skimmed through it though. I see alot of parallels.

We have had our share of problems too. I did some stupid stuff while we dated, but I came clean before we got M. it still comes up, but not as frequent as it used too.

My plan A has been going ok with the exception of a couple of convo's that went downhill about the topic. I just dont want to get caught spying, how does one handle that if it happens?

Hi TM.
Sorry about he bio stuff, but if you feel threatened in any way just delete the last post. I understand that you need your own place of connection right now. Don't need another to somehow use it aginst you, OK? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This is a big transition for TM. I saw the same thing in my W. All of a sudden, there out there in a world that has completely changed from what their memory of it was. IT IS A DIFFERNT WORLD TODAY, THAN WHAT IT ONCE WAS!

I used to tell my W that she was naive and blinded by today's world, as she had removed herself from it being a SAHM. She thought i was being ludicrous, but learned the hard way, I WAS NOT!! To her, that was a DJ judgement on my part. Perhaps she was right. But, alas, look what happened in the end.



Look TM, you should not lookl at this in this way. You are a good H, who like any good H, is trying his best to PROTECT your M. You are simply trying to uncover the truth, not spy! You not only have a right to do this, it is your command to do this as a good and Godly Husband. Do you understand this? Yes, GOD wants you to protect and defend your M, no matter what it takes!!

Lose the guilt, and do what you must to somehow become another ME!!

Stay strong and post your Q's, others will be here also.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Ok, possible delima today. Danny D has potentially gotten some bad news on the D. Today is work late day. I'm thinking prime time for another heart to heart.
I'm thinking of going there like I have in the past when she is late, sometimes we go to eat sometimes I just walk her to her car. He has only been there one time (v-day), so she still sees this as checking on her, but she has been ok with it mostly. Today He will prob. be there, and I think she will push me to go on home from wk. Lord knows there is plenty to do there and she will use that.
I'm thinking of pushing the issue anyway and just going, I sorta go that way to go home. I see a potential LB but I also see potential disaster.

Opinions?

The last time we talked about me going there when she is late she said she worried how I would react if I came in there and he was talking to her, like I would freak or something. I told her that I wasnt an idiot. I wanted to say if its a legit convo than what do you have to worry about.
I got about 2hrs sleep last night. She seems to be having some serious dreams for at least a week, almost as soon as she hits the pillow. Making kinda wierd sounds and I think she gets worked up then wakes up after a while and doesnt wake me, if you know what I mean? I know this happened once for sure. I cant sleep for laying there watching her wondering if she is thinking of him. And why she doesnt come to me.
I want to tell everybody what I think is going on. I've been thinking of ways to make it ****** for them at work, but I know it wont do any good. I really need to brush up on my surveilance, just cant figure out how to set it up in the car.
Sometimes, I feel like I'm spinning out, then I come here and I feel better.

S.T. mentioned getting a pro mc involved a few posts back. this is a non option, she just will not do it. does anyone think I should go to her close family member that was a WS and tell them that she may be on the same road?

does anyone think it would be a good idea to contact OMW and tell her what I think is going on, maybe sugest she get a pi? or should i ask a co-worker if they think something is going on?

i hate to keep replying to myself like this but things are just running through my head....over and over...

he pretty much said the same thing I am planning on doing which is good. didnt really understand if they thought it was a good idea to show up at there work or not, one time he said thats a way to find out but then Ms H said if you dont find out she will be embarrassed and pissed off (lb)
I'm thinking about just telling her that Im coming but be there a little early.

changed title to be more relevant. i guess that wont hurt anything