The sweetest thing I could hear today! I love, love, love, love it when OPs get what they deserve!!

This made my day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

She told me the other night that her heart wants to tell me that she loves me, and that everything is going to be OK...but her brain is telling her otherwise...

But, this weekend she went to the MB website, and filled out the ENs and LBs questionnaires, on her own. I told about the website a couple of weeks ago though. I filled mine out not long after I first came to MBs, and so tonight we discussed them with each other.

Most of the things we put in there, we already knew... But for whatever reason, we just didn't tend to those needs the way we should have...

What does all this mean? Her filling these qeustionnaires out, etc...?

She has also asked me why I am being this way (Plan-A), and why we/I couldn't have been this way for the past 9 yrs. She also asked, "What do you see in me that makes you want to love me and want to work all this out?" The only thing that I could say, was that I have always loved her, and always will, and no matter what we have put each through over the past couple of years, and ESPECIALLY in the last 4 months, I know that if we work together to we will can overcome the hurt that we have put each other through, and have a better life, family, and marriage. She also asked, "Why do you want try to work this out so quickly?" (meaning: so quickly after discovering everything). I replied, "I don't know."

What do I see in her, she cheated on me FGS!!! Why do I want to save our marriage?
What else could I have said, to both of her questions?

She's still extremely indifferant to the idea of starting MC, right now. She still says that she has to work/overcome on the things that are inside of her(i.e. depression, anxiety, self esteem, bitterness, bottled-up anger/emotions)before she can begin to work on us. She told me a couple of days ago that she told her counselor it seems it would take her 5 years to overcome all the things that are wrong inside her and be able to start working on our marriage...

She has it backwards...her brain knows what it wants and what is right. Many times, the heart is what leads us astray! But, it is of no matter! She is talking to you...she is on the fence. This is good!


As usual, this is the case. Have you read the Harley books to go along with this (His Needs Her Needs, Surviving an Affair, Love Busters)? If not, get them and read them. Also, if you have the money, order the home study courses (or get your wife to go to the Marriage Builders Weekend). The home study courses are at MB Home Study Courses. My wife finally bought into MB after going to the weekend. It is a little money...but it will jump start things!


In short, you need to study! Both of you. The weekend would help by giving you an intensive learning environment to understand and buy into the program and be ready to move forward.

But the issue with the questionaires is for you guys to know the top 5 needs. With that, you need to meet those top five most of the time, and the top three all of the time...in the way she needs them met. And she needs to do the same for yours.

If you do this...you will be in love again in a very short period of time (as long as you dont love bust...which is why you do that questionaire and you guys stay away from those things that would withdraw from the other's love bank). I have watched all of this with my wife. I have watched her want to work on things but was wary. Then we went to the MB weekend, and for the first time, she bought in. But still a little wary, mostly due to we hadnt built up enough love units. But after a month, you could see the spark begin. My wife began to be more clingy...more open. She began to say "ILY." She began to call multiple times a day...and both of us could not wait to be with each other. Mr. and Mrs Mortarman are now firmly in love. And the addiction to each other grows!!

But it happens because she now understands what I realized after I came here. That we must meet the other's most important needs, we must not love bust, we must follow POJA, we must have radical honesty and openness. And the more we fall in love, the funny thing is...the more we want to do this!! ultimately, both of you have to understand that it is not your responsibility to have your wife meet your needs. It is not your wife's responsibility for you to meet her needs. All you can do is meet hers...all she can do is meet yours! You MUST rely on each other!


ALL...and I mean ALL WSs that have been subjected to a good Plan A ask this question! This is great! It means she notices...and she likes what she sees!!


Two quick things. First, a question...are either of you Christians? If so, I have an answer for you about all of this. But, the second thing is, suffice it to say, that you two are one flesh...one person. You are bonded by love, by history, by family. And other things. This is a different kind of love...not the cheap kind we get from just dating and getting those feelings we love so much. This is so much deeper than that! What you love in her is that she is a part of you! It is like asking your left arm what you like about your right arm.

Sure, you may not LIKE what your wife has done. You may not LIKE how she has treated you. But love doesnt necessarily have anything to do with like. It will be nice when the two of you like each other again. And that will happen. But, love is a different thing. Like comes and goes...love lasts.


Answer your own question, Marine. You KNOW the answer to this question! You are just afraid to state it...too afraid that if you do, she will take what is left of you and stomp it into the ground. But soldiers and Marines dont fight from the bottom of foxholes. Fear or not...you know you need to lean forward in that foxhole and engage the enemy. Your wife is NOT the enemy...but the affair is. The conditions that led to the affair are. Even you are...if you go back to not meeting her needs and love busting her. You know why you love her. So, tell her. Let down the barriers and tell her.


Tell her the truth. Dont try to protect yourself...or save face. Tell her how you feel about her!


What she doesnt understand is that much of that is BECAUSE of you guys! As Dr. Harley says, you dont need to work on the past to fall in love again. As a matter of fact, working on the past may keep you from falling in love! By concentrating on negative things when your love banks are so low, will only deplete them. You guys need a plan...an OPORD. Dr. Harley has that. Steve Harley can counsel you by phone and give you, the leader, the plan. And then slowly, your wife will come onboard whn she sees that the plan is working so well with you. She will begin to believe!


Then you will be divorced. What she said is a lie! It will take you all very little time to fall in love, if you will get the plan and stay with the plan. Schedule an appointment with Steve Harley for yourself. Then, after talking with him, ask your wife to have a session with him, as it will help Steve help you. Steve will take care of the rest with her!

You have a GREAt opportunity here! Both of you do. You can have what I have now! But, you are also at a point of grave danger. If you allow your wife to lead this, if you all dont meet needs and keep out love busters, if you dont get a plan that works...you both will become discouraged and divorce WILL happen! Or, at the very least, another affair!

Read my link below about the roles of women and men. Get ahold of Steve Harley and schedule an appointment. Take some leave, and get your wife to take a trip with you to the MB weekend.

As I told you before...YOU are in command! This is your fight. All anyone can do is advise. You are the leader of your family.

Do right...always!

Cory, Mortarman, No-Way, I'm new here and can't comment on anyones's sitc til I figure out my own. I just want to say "THANK YOU" to all of you who have proudly served our country. You are very much appeciated. This goes to anyone else in uniform on the site as well!

22D

I'm sorry, if this was one of those "thread jacks"
I'll learn to not get off topic 22d

Cory, you wrote "She told me a couple of days ago that she told her counselor it seems it would take her 5 years to overcome all the things that are wrong inside her and be able to start working on our marriage... "

It may take 5 years for her to get back to the place you want her to be - secure, safe, trusting....

BUT, you think that time will be the "******" it is now and trust me (from experience as the betrayed spouse), it won't feel like this forever -- or even 5 years. Truly the love bank is important - the more you demonstrate your love and commitment to her, the faster the healing will be. You already have read the "major ideas" about investing in the love bank. Let me give you a few simple but good investments, from a female point of view and a betrayed spouse (hate to call myself the BS!!!!) ----

1. In winter weather, start her car and defrost the windows for her!
2. call her in the middle of the workday and ask her to go to lunch with you because you just really want to be with her
3. when away, text message her - not I love you, but thinking about you or a silly love card available on sites like 1,2,3 greetings
4) when you are with her and if intimate, take extra time to just show "care" ie) rub her back, feet etc. Once my husband (long before we married ) painted my toe-nails and it felt WONDERFUL! (it demonstrated that he wanted to care for me, no matter)

Cory, it WILL take a long time for her to "get over it". You do not deserve a "life sentence" in prison - meaning every day she makes the affair the center of your life and causes strife. On the other hand, she needs to feel more than anything that her choice to forgive is not stupid and that you love her (words don't count -- all about actions!!! the simple kinds of things I mentioned above do matter - all are deposits in her love bank IF you refuse to stray again.

I am no expert here, just been there... betrayed wife point of view.

By the way, thank you for serving our country - I respect you tremendously. I am on the board for support because my husband had an affair. I am concerned that we actually know each other - related - your mom's only sister. (board requires we remain anonymous for good reason!) However, if your mom has only 1 sister who used to live in OK, TX, and now in GA, please see my profile "I am I said" for email and contact me.

What a differance a week makes...

Last Wednesday night I was at my house with the kids while WW when was at her college class. After her class, she decided to go out with a girl friend to sing kareoke. I fell asleep on the couch waiting for her to get home. When she did finally get home, for whatever reason, she felt compelled to lay down next to me. It completely took me by surprise!! I couldn't go back to sleep, it felt TOO GOOD to have her laying next me and holding her. We became a little intimate (no sex though), and as bad as she needed to feel the affection, she also felt in her mind that we shouldn't be showing each other the affection, cause it would only confuse things more.

The next day she kept calling me every 15 min, crying, trying to appoligize. I told her that she shouldn't be sorry. She is still my wife, I still love her, and that I wanted to fill her needs... She finally asked me to come home so we could go somewhere and talk. I then immediately left work, and went to the house. We went to the park and talked about everything. She told me that her affair was emotional and physical, and she appoligiezed for betraying me. I appoligized for all the things I had done over the years as well... I asked her again about MC, and she agreed to go. When went to dinner afterwards, and everything looked like it was going in the right direction. I even told her about me going to his command. She didn't get mad about it though. She did say that she felt bad because she feels that his career is ruined because of her...

The next day (last Fri) we both called around to find a counselor, and she found one that she thought we would both like and made an appointment for this coming Mon.

I got off early Fri and went stright to our house. We were very affectionate with each other throughout the day. We laid in bed talking, and I even gave her about an hour massage. After the kids went to bed I told her about some of the evidence that I had gathered. This made her mad... She said that if I loved her, I would have never gone to these lengths to prove her affair. She was mad because I had decieved her in to believing that I didn't know anything, all the while gathering all this evidence. She said I have become obsessed with it...A little later she went to the bedroom, and wanted me to leave...but I didn't. I laid down next to her and talked to her, loved on her, and tried to show her affection without me wanting sex. She became very turned on, and things became very intimate, but we agreed that we needed to stop before it lead to sex, and so I left.

Early the next morning she called and said that she was very angry with me over all the evidence and stuff. I told I felt as if she had set me up by telling me she wanted to go to MC and telling me about her A, only to get some info out of me so that she could build a rebuttle... She told me that she was only going to MC so that she could get "answers" for herself, to get over all the hurt, and to see if she could infact stay married to me. She knows my goal is to completely recocile, and rebuild our marriage using the MB concepts... I kept the kids at our house that night while she stayed at the neighbors house.

Sunday went well... She came home about noon, and we made cookies with the kids, and just hung out around the house together as a family; it felt amazing... We sat down together after the kids went to bed to watch a movie. We both fell asleep on couch, but woke up to her kissing me and pressing her body up next to mine. We became extremely intimate and somewhat sexual, but never engaged in intercourse... Afterwards, she told me to get out. She said that we shouldn't have done that, that she was extremely confused. So I left.

All this week I've been at the house in the evenings we've talked a lot, and she keeps saying that her goals for MC is not to reconcile/rebiuld our marriage, but to help herself get over her inturnal conflicts etc...

This seems VERY SELFISH to me... MC should be for our marriage not for ourselves... That's what our ICs are for...

Plan A does work!!! I had almost become a master, up until last Friday. It seems even harder now because I feel that she is being selfish, and already has her mind made up that she wants a divorce. I think that's why she keeps telling me that she doen't know if our marriage can be saved and wants MC to try to answer that for her, so that later on down the road when she does decide on divorce she can say, "I told you when we stared MC that I didn't know, and you should have prepared yourself for the worst."

I am prepared for the worst, but I know our marriage can be saved if we follow Harley's concepts, and that it will be a better marriage than before. I'm 100% committed to filling her needs and working through all of this crap we've put each other through. I want to forgive her, love her, and have a passionate life with her... I just don't understand why she doen't want to the same. If not for me, why not for our children...?

You are where I was in late November/early December (except my WW refuses counseling). Keep up the plan A, and don't talk about divorce. Keep meeting her ENs, avoid LB, and avoid R/M talk. She is really confused right now. Part of the justifications she made for her A are still bouncing around in her head, and it will take time for her to let it go. Part of her feels like you'll never forgive her, part of her wants to run away from what she did, and part of her wants to think that is was over between you two before the A to alleviate some of her guilt. Just ride the storm out. Don't bring up the D word, and she will likely bring it up less and less in the future. After SEVERAL months, she will probably start committing to the M again, but take it slow and get her hooked on you meeting her ENs. She isn't going anywhere. And if she brings up your snooping again, tell her you did what you did because you loved her and felt you needed to do it to save your M. Make sure you are going to a pro-M MC.

Cory,

You need to make sure that the MC is a PRO-marriage counselor. Not all are! make sure they understand the principles outlined by Dr. Harley. As I said, if you can afford it, have the two of you counsel with Steve Harley...or even better, go to the MB Weekend togther! Once she is exposed to the principles, you two will have a plan. She will understand. And your odds will go up greatly.

Please dont engage in discussions you know will drain your love banks. Telling her about what you collected in evidence will only hurt...and you guys cant take much bad stuff right now. Save that for later!

Stay on Plan A. If you can, have her read His Needs, Her Needs and to fill out the EN questionaire. Then share the info with each other. Then see if she will counsel with Steve of go to the weekend. Tell her these guys are the best in the country and are able to give you both a PLAN of action.

You have done well. But you are in a very fragile point in this. You cant do this next part without professional help. Get in to see the Harleys. You are going to have to lead your wife a little (dont push!!!).

Good job so far. Charlie Mike.

Do I just come out and ask the counselor is a Pro-marriage counselor? I don't want them to feel as if I'm intarigating/intverviewing/doubting her professional skills... It just seems to me that if they are a marriage counselor, then they are pro-marriage; just doesn't make sense the other way...

How do I know whether or not they are pro-marriage?

This counselor we are going to, she does not use Dr. Harley's concepts...but my wife is set on going to her because she has a gut feeling that she will be a good MC...

I did find one that uses the MB concepts and told my w about her, but she said that if we don't like this one that we are going to, then we can try another one.

I don't want to tell WW that we are NOT going to use the MC that she found because they do use the MB concepts. I think that will only make her feel like I am trying to control her, and make all the decisions... I don't want to do anything that will be considered a LB...

CoryUSMC

You are paying this person for her expertise-and probably quite a bit. You have every right to ask about their education, experience, creditials, licensing, and their approach to marriage counseling.

The biggest question I would have is-do they have experience working with marriages that have experienced infidelity?

Why does your WW have a "gut" feeling that this will be a good MC? Recommendations from others? Because it's a woman? I'm not sure if her "gut" feeling is that reliable right now.

What I would do is compare their experience, certification, etc and present that to your WW. Also, tell her you really want someone who understands the dynamic of a marriage that is trying to recover from infidelity and not just a disconnect between each other.

Hope this helps.

Cory,

I occasionally coach people who have had infidelity in their marriage, and just so you know, it is absolutely appropriate for the people to ask me something like, "Tell me about yourself and your approach to coaching and marriage in general" or "What is your philosophy when you do couples coaching?" Thus, I suggest that before your first appointment, you just ask the counselor right out: "What is your philosophy about marriage after an affair? Are you pro-marriage or pro-'do-what's-good-for-the-individual'?"

It is highly unlikely that you will find a MFT (marriage and family therapist) who is familiar with Harley's principles right off the bat...out of the phone book. BUT, if you find a pro-marriage counselor, they would most likely be open to learning about Marriage Builders and what you know about it. Does that make sense?

Finally--the A is over. You WW is beginning to see that you CAN meet her needs and she CAN feel something--she's not sure what it is yet--but she has justified her affair long enough now with "well, he doesn't love me right" and "I could never feel for him what I feel for OM" that she still is a little entangled with that. It's like sticky spider web on her legs, holding her tangled up. Also, she probably thinks, "Oh he's just doing this to get me back and then he'll be right back to the same old Cory"...so she's also looking for a little long-term reassurance.

Therefore, I suggest two things. When she says she's not sure, what she means is that she's wavering but doesn't know how to live with herself yet. You just be steady. Keep meeting EN's and prove it to her that it's worth it to stay and you CAN forgive her. I suggest that rather than viewing the viewing her using the marriage counseling for herself as "selfish" that you change your viewpoint that she is willing to consider doing some work on herself to possibly make the relationship better! Right now, she may need to do a few things "for herself" but in the long-term it will be better for both of you. SECOND, I suggest that you remember that she is still half-way foggy. When she's mad that you "deceived her" about the evidence, it's easy to think, "Gee, then how do you think *I* feel that you deceived me about having sex with another man?" But...you'll probably go a lot further by telling her you understand how she could feel that way, but that you were doing what you had to do to save your love for her. Turn it back to saving your marriage and saving your family and saving your love for her. For everything she says, stop and ask yourself, "Is this fog-talk? Is this WS babble?" If it is, reply kindly but honestly and kind of ignore it.

You are doing GREAT! Stay the course!! Keep your mission in mind!!

Your faithful friend,


CJ

You can ask the MC if they have read or use Dr. Harley's books as part of their practice, and if they have experience dealing with infidelity.

Thanks for the encouragement CJ. It really helped!!

I did ask the counselor. She told me that she has heard of the books, but doesn't use them. She said that when people say they want to fill thier spouses needs so that the spouse will love them again, that it usually only lasts for short period of time... But, she takes the approach of: You should fill your spouses ENs not only because you want them to love you, but because it's just the type of person you are/want to be...

She did say that there is nothing wrong with the books, but she doesn't use them...

She does have experience in dealing with infidelity, but I didn't ask her to what extent..,

They all will say they are pro-marriage. Ths issue is the approach. As was said above...are they there to help the marriage...or the individual? Also, are they there to dwell on the problems, or are they there to help the two of you fall in love again? If they are going to dwell on the problems in order to fix them BEFORE you two reconcile...you will never reconcile. You have to be in love to be able to take the kind of hits on your love banks that it will take to dig thru the mess.


There are many that come here, go to a MC, and come back after 2-3 sessions and say "they told us that it was probably better if we separate." Huh? Most counselors have a less than 50% success rate. The Harleys are much, much higher!!


If they dont agree with and propose what the Harleys have outlined here and in their books, I would consider them suspect. You need to understand that in order to recover your marriage, you two need to be in love again. That ONLY requires meeting each other's most important needs and not love busting. Following the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) and learning how to negotiate. All of these are found on this website and in Harley's books. That is why I really push working with Steve or Jennifer...and even going to the MB Weekend...which is even better!


Not good enough! I have been at this for over 5 years (learning about marriages, infidelity, etc). I have read EVERYTHING...and even tried most. No one has this thing down like the Harleys. No one has the success that the Harleys have. Take for example, the MB Weekend. They GUARANTEE that if you come to the weekend, and then if you do the homework they have for you to do over the next year (and they monitor, counsel and advise you over that year), then you WILL be in love. Shoot...it only took my wife about 4 weeks after the weekend to admit that she was fully, head over heels, in love with me again. With all of the tingly feelings that go with that!

Basically, I am saying that if you go with someone else, it is a crap shoot. And do you want to trust this fragile situation you are in to another setback? What happens if this counselor fails? Will your wife then say "see, it just isnt meant to be?" Why not go with the odds?

The way to do it is to ask your wife "Would you counsel two sessions at least with my counselor? It will be by phone. He (Steve) or she (Jennifer) can talk with us, and maybe help us come up with a plan. They are world renowned...the best in the business. If you then dont like it, we can see whomever you want."

Lead her...gently. Tell her you plan to speak to the Harleys, and would like her to come along too. Tell her you dont want to chance things...and have what can be a great marriage...on someone that we just dont know about. Tell her if we are going to take the chance, then let's do it with someone that has the success rate the Harleys do.


Okay. But as I said, you are going to have to be tough on this counselor, in that you cannot let her lead you into "so, what did he do...so what did she do?" You will be wasting your time and money! And endangering your marriage! Why not call the Harleys and set up an appointment yourself. Then tell her that the changes she has seen in you are directly from learning the MB principles and understanding what a good marriage should have. Tell her that if she has seen the changes in you, then isnt it worth the money to explore this further and go with what is working? Again, you are going to have to find a way to lead her. Because my wife and I went to a counselor our pastor recommended (who wasnt pro-Harley) on our first reconciliation attempt. He wanted to go into all of the problems, instead of help us find a plan to move forward and fall in love. Within 6 weeks, we were no longer going and werent talking to each other. And then, we ended up splitting up again. As I said, it is VERY dangerous!


Which is why you dont TELL her. You sit down and talk to her. Telling her about what you found. Let her read some of the materials. Tell her the stuff I showed you above. Ask her to give it a try. POJA it!!! Again, tell her that it is the MB principles that are the reason that you have become the husband you have. And if they have worked this well in such a short time, then why done we try these and try the counseling and see if we can fall in love very quickly.

No matter who you see, Cory...YOU need to be the expert in this! You are the husband...you are in command of this family. You make the final decisions. Thus, you need to be the expert! And you need to protect your wife, your marriage and yourself from any doctrine that would lead you two away from what you need.

As I said, you KNOW the Harleys will give you that. Anyone else...you might as well be rolling dice!

She doesnt know what she is talking about! The Harley principles are scientific. It is based on human nature. It is based on animal nature. It is based on "I move toward that which makes me feel good, and I move away from that which is hurting me." That is the basis of all of this. So, as long as you two are doing things that make each other feel good (meeting ENs) and not hurting each other (love busters), then you will fall in love and stay in love. This is a fact! A counselor that does not understand that, should be suspect!


Well, it is true you should do this because it is who you SHOULD be. But the object is to have your spouse be in love with you!


This one scares me a little. You had best become an expert quickly in this, Cory. So, you will be able to see when she is taking you away from that which has proven to work.

Cory,

Two quick things: First...LISTEN TO MORTARMAN! He's been though it and has a military background so he can empathize with what YOU are going through and what it's like to be in the military and try to raise a family and stuff. Stick to him and listen to him--make him your wise counsel--and everyone else, just consider if it matches him.

Second, let's clarify one thing. Back in the day, when you and your WW first met and fell in love, you naturally met her most important ENs because of the man you are. It is most likely in your nature to meet her ENs. Likewise for her. If your ENs were Admiration, SF, Attractive Spouse, and RC--she told you she thought you were GREAT, she hugged and kissed you, she looked AWESOME, and she wanted to hang out with you and do stuff with you. It was "natural" but you didn't know it. You hadn't itemized what the ENs were and you two weren't doing it consciously. Then you got married, and like most married folks do, you got busy with jobs and kids and school and PTA and...and...and. It wasn't a conscious decision to stop meeting ENs, you just slowly stopped doing what came naturally to you two in the beginning.

THUS, the most effective way for you to meet your W's ENs (and eventually for her to meet yours) is to identify them, and to learn to become again the person you naturally are. For example, my idea of RC is not a 10-mile race walk and a game of tennis--my idea of RC is going to a car show together or going to a football game together. Thus, back in the day, we went to football games and we enjoyed the "fun" of cheering for the team on those cool fall evenings. Then life and kids came along and we didn't want to drag babies to a football game, so we stopped. But me--the person I am--I have always enjoyed football and still do! And if that's meeting an EN that we have identified for my DH, then when I learn to return to the person I naturally am--I will be meeting his ENs!

Soooo...that's my little EN message.

Regarding your W and the C, I do have a suggestion. The Marriage Builder weekends are in Florida or California--both kind of vacationey spots, both are held in resorts. It's pretty nice, could be a little swankey, and just to start things off and open her to the possibility, you might say something like, "You know, we have been through so much stuff this year that was not fun, I thought it might be nice, before we really get down to work and get down to family stuff, to take a break and go to a nice resort and have some fun, "us" time. So we can reconnect a little bit and not have the pressure of kids and work and life. Would you consider going to the Hyatt Regency in Orlando and going to the Marriage Builder Weekend? We could fly in the day before, spend a whole day in Florida/California having fun, attend the seminars, have fancy dinners, and then stay an extra day after its all done. Just the two of us? Would you be willing to let me do that with you?"


~~CJ

Cory,

My man, you are in deep serious now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> MM and CJ have you by the collar, and they WILL lead you to where you need to be. LISTEN TO THEM.

I would offer one comment. If you were to read other well respected books on marriages, handling infidelity (The late Shirley Glass comes to mind), you will see essentially the same concepts being used. Human nature is human nature, consider your training in the Marines. It works, and it works almost every time, why? Because the military over thousands of years has figured out how people function best in combat environments. They keep learning, but the basics ARE the basics.

Harley has taken very basic concepts, a lot of experience, and knowledged gained by others and put it together in a 'logical' basic approach. It is why so many men also like their approach. My point, if you go to this MC, and her approach does not seem "logical" and goal driven (save your marriage), then whether she "reads books or not" the odds of success go down.

The more you know, the more you question, and also the more you listen the better off you will be. Your W has her feet in very shifting sand right now. She is tipping one way and another because she has lost her moral compass. It is your job to be steadfast, focused, loving, and as knowledgeable as you can be. You have to lead, and that sometimes means swallowing hard when you hear some of the things your W will say.

So listen to CJ and MM, and pay real attention to the patterns of human interactions as laid out by Harley. I think if you do this, you have a good chance of success. She is listening to you, you are planting the seeds of success, but they take a while to germinate and grow. Have patience and learn.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL and CJ for your encouraging words!! I'm taking my W to buy her a swim suit, and then to dinner tonight... Wish me luck...