From Penalty Kill

So as not to thread jack LS:


Here's my confusion, and it stems from the phrase "to us".

If we speak of owing someone an apology for our poor behavior, is that Taker talk? What is owed comes *from* us, not *to* us. There's no expectation of receiving anything in return for our apology, it seems more an acknowledgement of personal responsibility. To humble yourself and admit that you were wrong doesn't seem to me to be Taker-like behavior; it seems much more Giver, regardless of the terminology of the word "owe".

Extrapolating from this point, I am quite sure that I have read Harley's views on the FWS needing to compensate the BS in a tangible way for the pain of the A. I can't find it on the site, but I may have read it in one of the books.

I really wish I could find his exact words, but the sense I got was that compensation was definitely owed to the BS if the recovery was to move forward with a minimum of resentment.

I think I am using the word "owe" to reflect personal responsibility to others, rather than in an "I give this and expect that" tit for tat way.

Thoughts?

penalty

in my opinion

if you are giving an apology because you feel you "owe it" then it is for you, not them really.....your taker

but if you are "asking them to accept your apology" that is for them....your giver

Hi PB (penalty box or pepper band ... How kewl)

just got back from errands
and
heard some really sad news ...

just letting you know I see this, I am not ignoring you ... but I feel bad right now... one of husband's friends killed himself ... *sigh*

so, if I forget to come back to this thread ... just bump to the top so I see it ... it's a good topic, don'cha'think ?

Pep

I think owing can come from a sense of remorse within the offender - thus the term "I owe you an apology". It is an attempt to regain equity in the relationship. Fill the lovebank so as to equalize the balances, so to speak.

I think it is both giver and taker in terms of apologies.

Taker: I need to apologize to relieve my own guilt.
Giver: I need to apologize to relieve the other person's pain.

SB

our Taker wants us to be happy (we all agree, right?)

I was not trying to criticize your efforts to help Sis (you already know that, right?)

for myself .. when I am expressing "it's not fair that ... blah blah blah(whatever)" ... My Taker is talking

EVEN IF my complaints of "not fair" are on the behalf of another person , because wanting what is "fair" in life means we have some safety net

Everyone of us heard at least one parent say : "LIFE IS NOT FAIR"

isn't the Taker the one who is vested in getting things measured justly and making sure we don't give away things that others do not deserve???

what do you think?

Pep

Sorry about the sad news, pep. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm so sorry to hear of the bad news. Thinking about you and yours tonight...

and, as usual, SB has some very intersting points on the taker, stating that it is the way we see our OWN apology that sets the tone for whether it is a giver or taker involved.

Usually, when I apologize, it's because I want someone to know that I know I have been a party to causing them pain, and I want them to know that it was wrong of ME. I'm not looking for anything from the offended party, except acknowledment that they have heard what I've said. After all, you cannot force people to forgive you...

My taker would love for me to be happy, but I've learned that I will not be happy at the expense of others' happiness.

the man who shot/killed himself was a man my H knew from AA meetings
H used to give him a ride home sometimes

I only met him a few times, I did not know him
he was in his 60s

I feel badly for my H more than anything
we went for an hour walk and talked it out

but I feel tired inside, and I don't know why

Pooped

I hope you have recovered your 'pep'. I am sorry about your H's friend. That's very sad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] Did anyone see the movie *DREAMGIRLS* [/color]

one of the songs has Effie's 'Taker' on full display ...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[color:"blue"]What about what I need?
Curtis says its the best thing for the group.
What about whats best for me?
He feels the Dreams can crossover.
What about how I feel?
But when we're famous I'll write great things for ya, Effie do it for me.
What about me? What about me?

It's more than you, it is more than me
No matter what we are, we are a family
This dream is for all of us, this one can be real,
and you cant stop us now because of how you feel..
It's more than you, It is more than me
Whatever dreams we have, there for the family,
we're not alone anymore now there are others there,
and that dreams big enough for all of us to share,
so dont think that your going,
your not going anywhere, your staying and taking your share, and if
you get afraid again, I'll be there..,
We are a family like a giant tree branching out towards the sky, we are a family we
are so much more than just you and I we are a family like a giant tree,
growing stronger, growing wiser, we are growing free..we need you..we are a family..
[/color]

From Penalty Kill

Pepperband, I'm very sorry about your H's friend; I hope you are both feeling better. My uncle committed suicide many years ago and it devastated my grandmother. I still remember taking her call after she found him. He was a very smart, kind man.....who happened to be addicted to heroin and alcohol. Cue up the Neil Young.

Thank you Pep, eav, SB and SL for your comments on apologies and whether they reflect our Taker, Giver or both. Food for thought, certainly. As a sidenote, Eav, I follow your thread and I see the progress you have made. I hope that your H sees it one day as well. I think the fact that he hasn't pursued a divorce speaks to this possibility.

Getting back to apologies, one of the things that my H said to me a few months ago was "I can't hear you say you're sorry often enough". He knew that I took responsibility, he knew that I was remorseful, but he needed to hear the words "I'm sorry". Repeatedly.

I saw the original Dreamgirls back in the day with J. Holliday. I can't help but feel that the movie might pale in comparison, although I would like to see Eddie Murphy.