Could she be emotionally unbalanced due to peri-menopause or menopause?

It is so hard to figure if she is just not wanting to cut off her nose to spite her face....she doesn't want a traditional marriage but doesn't want a DV...then flip flops with the manipulating phone calls wanting things to flow normally along...after unloading some hurtful bombs...gee....all her way and no real consideration for your feelings.

If she won't agree to some marriage work with the Harley's I'd be inclined to prepare to end the sham of a marriage that it has been for several years now.

I had hopes that things had improved. It could still take a real plan B to wake her up to the reality of what losing you and her marriage could mean.

Such a shame because we all know that this stuff can work and you could have a better, more fulfilling, loving marriage going forward if the work is done. It will certainly be her loss should she not agree to put some real effort in to her own marriage...whether she agrees with marriage or not.

And...I would hope that I would react the same as Pep and Mel should my H have another A....I'd have full intentions to do so....but I would still have to cross that bridge....I don't really know how I would react in reality....so I understand your wanting to save your marriage still after all you've been through with your W, 2long, and wondering how you could possibly still feel that way.. History? Commitment? OR just weak and pathetic? I did it after more than one affair and so far it has worked marvelously for us and our family.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> how would I know what you had for dinner????

Pep, you have mail. {{2long}}

I suppose, but I don't know squat about it. She's been having hot flashes for about a year or so now.


I have no feelings. ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I'm a Vulcan.


I'm willing anyway. But I'll ask again.


I suppose it might. I'd rather enjoy myself, I suspect. Perhaps 2much. Problem is I really need 2 get rid of that 2nd mortgage (not a 2nd on our house, but a full mortgage on a 2nd house) before I can do anything. That was SUPPOSED 2 happen 2DAY!


I agree, but that doesn't do me any good.


His2ry and commitment mainly. We've been married, such as it is, for over 31 years now. Definitely not weak or pathetic, though I've been accused of that before.




I'm glad. I don't think I could. But then, I didn't think I could this time.

-ol' 2long

Pep:

Well, I'm 2 busy at work, and 2 flustered over this nonsense 2 guess much.

Do you mean our consultation with the mediator in '05?

-ol' 2long

Rats...and I had gone back and corrected most of those typos you quoted...)



Well...I didn't think I could or would either....but then I did...it is always easier said than done....but I really hope I would do exactly as pep said:



My initial reaction last time was calm and and not the rage and emotion that came with the previous experience.

You on the other hand...didn't have another A to deal with...but a long term A and a somewhat foggy or nontraditional (F)WW who doesn't fit the mold, won't get with the program....won't have the great marriage as we might define it...she isn't really on the same page with what we would believe to be a real recovery. She is also disrespectful of your feeling when she puts up or leaves up a photo which includes Ratmeat. That would be unacceptable to me.

It's unacceptable 2 me, 2.

I suggested offline 2 Appy that I might borrow that pic2re when she's at work some day, and edit ol' Rat Meat out.

At work, I'm known as something of a Photoshop wizard. That would be EASY.

But Appy thought I should talk 2 her about it. Which was my plan, until last night happened. I still will do something, though.

I suppose I could consider my W's 12-year affair more as 2 separate As with the same RM - the first a 4 or 5 year LTA that started about this time in 1991, and the 2nd a 2 or 3 year A that started 7 years ago.

...but then that makes her a serial cheater. I don't like those any more than LTAers.

Icky.

What's differentest now of anything about all this, is that I'm fully detached. No pain whatsoever. Which makes it a lilttle harder for me not 2 lovebust. I did some last night, but I did try hard not 2. She's on the lookout for handles, though. So she thought I was LBing.

About Pep's plan, though...

I agree with it, but I see undertones of "spite" in the "stealth preparation for divorce" part.

I'd rather lay all our cards on the table and walk away knowing we unders2d and respected each others' decision completely.

Heck, maybe RM really IS the spitting image of Jesus on the Cross!

I wouldn't mind being present at the curcifixion, though. (I'd bring my own hammer and nails - the square kind, like in our house).

-ol' 2long

[color:"red"] 2Long [/color] ... good point



The stealth would only happen if the (new) A was hidden by the (repeat) WH ... to protect myself I would move behind the scenes ... I do see how this might seem spiteful, but how it seems is not important for me, how it works in my best interest trumps seeming spiteful ...

What you did previously was to have an attorney prepare separation papers... your wife sat up and paid attention.

Pep

Did I hear something about woodchippers over here?

Beware of the woodchipper police.

That makes sense...I thought the same as 2long said about the stealth part regarding filing for DV...but then I thought is would depend on if there was a D-day where all was out in the open. I suppose the A would have to be out in the open since most WS's are so good at being covert.

But I would expect there wouldn't really be a need for a filing for DV to be stealth...unless I suspected some financial shenanigans might be going on so I'd have to act first and quietly. But...in FL is probably wouldn't make any difference being a very no fault state.

I would think my husband knows this stuff so inside and out now that any other A would be an Exit A. He really gets this stuff now...I overheard him counseling a younger brother with all the right info and he recently made the argument for exposing an affair of a friend when the scenario was discussed on a trade forum he belongs to.

I think my H would rather stick needles in in eyes than have another A ... he very much suffered during his A ... he suffered LESS once I found out ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Pep:

Good counterpoint!

I hope this doesn't sound chauvinistic, because I'm about as far from a chauvinist as anybody with a... ...well any man could get:

Might it be different if the BS is the H? Like, I don't feel like I would need 2 hide my interactions with a lawyer from my W, because I can trust her with money, even if I can't trust her with my heart.

I think I'd "do it" more along the lines of what you did after d-day - get everybody 2gether. Via email, if not in person - I don't want 2 meet RM in person, because I'd really like 2 put him in the ground half the time (or put half of him in the ground all the time?).

Lay all the cards on the table, tell the other players what I'm going 2 do, and leave them 2 figure out what they want 2 do with the mess they created.

-ol' 2long

As I said on FH's thread, I did send an email 2 my W, offering 2 pay for marriage coaching.

She replied. More or less what I cynically expected. I hate it when my cynical side is right.

She asked what prompted the email. She asked why I wouldn't consider counseling for myself, and we go 2 "communication" classes at Kaiser 2gether.

Maybe I should take her up on the offer 2 learn how 2 communicate? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> But I've done individual counseling before.

-ol' 2long

am am certain it is different

2long,
I have no advice for you.

I do hope it will get better for you. I haven't seen any change (long term change) in her attitude in all this time.

Have you?

SS

Pep:

Okay, so my feminine in2ition is still on track! ;oD

SS:

No, only change for the cold and complacent.

I replied 2 her reply. She had said that she was 2 busy 2 deal with this now, and so I apologized for bothering her, just wanted to help if I could. Then I wished her a good afternoon in class.

I didn't respond 2 the IC suggestion.

-ol' 2long

Why would she be interested in marriage coaching? She has the marriage she wants. And RatMeat on the side.

Pep, your idea about stealth prep, is what I did. I had gotten worn out trying to be nice. I never did Exposure or Plan B. Harley is right. You stay too long in Plan A and don't expose or go Plan B and your marriage simply dies.

I acted in my own best interests. Didn't want to forewarn him and give him time to hide any assets. Wanted to surprise him.

I did, too. He had a black eye for over a week from fainting onto his face on the floor from surprise (twice!) Surprised the heck out of me too.

Well this was interesting.

She responded, saying that what she'd like is 2 get away from work for a week or so and for us 2 go on a vacation alone, even if it's only for a weekend.

I told her I thought that was an excellent idea.

What's the weather like in the South Pacific in the Spring?

-ol' 2long

You know my favorite: Belize.

You could visit Olmec ruins together, too. Or is it Toltec. I can never remember.

Good news, though, 2.

Praying for you.

Thanks, Appy.

I really think it's time 2 end this soon, though. I can't make her happy. Maybe her "friends" can.

-ol' 2long