Hello,

My GF and I are trying to make our relationship work out. I know I can’t keep bringing up that she cheated on me, but I do need closure on what happened before we can move forward with our relationship. I feel I should only bring this up a couple of times, and I have to decide to forgive her fully or move on because if I keep bringing this up we will never get anywhere.

I wrote down the questions that I will like to ask her. Can you please give me feedback on these questions, if I should ask them, or if I’m missing any questions that I should be asking her?

Closure conversation questions:

1. What was it that pushed you to cheat on me?

2. If I didn’t find out that you cheated and we were still going to continue our relationship, were you going to approach me and tell me the truth on what happened?

Or in your eyes was this the end of the relationship and it didn’t matter what happened that night it was over between us?

3. You told me that you didn’t talk in a humorous way about what happened with the friends you went out with that night because it wasn’t something funny or to be taken lightly.

I find this hard to believe that you didn’t gossip or be humorous about what happened that night with your friends because on the myspace message you sent your friend 2 days after the incident you sounded like you had no remorse for what you did and took it so lightly cracking jokes with your friend.

Do you honestly feel remorse for what you did to me? Why, in your writing, did you make it sound like it wasn’t a big deal?

4. I know you weren’t happy with our current relationship and the way things were going, but if you were unhappy why didn’t you break up with me instead of cheating behind my back?

Breaking up with me would have been the respectful thing to do, but the way you handled our relationship makes me question your character as a person. This shows me that if times get tough for us in the future you are very capable of doing this to me again; it’s in your nature.

If we continue our relationship, what comfort can you give me that in the future you won’t do this again? If times get hard in the future and I stray from showing you the emotional needs that you need; will that cause you to cheat on me again or will we talk about the issue and work on a better future together?

5. I don’t know if you ever cheated during previous relationships; I don’t think you have. But seeing this side of you take’s away from your character that I have grown to love. I don’t understand why you had to go all the way with that guy, instead of just kissing him. Doesn’t that make you feel used and cheap? Why would you go all the way?

You always told me that sometimes not always it’s nice to be treated like a lady (ex. open car door, go look at the stars, etc…), but is this really how a lady acts?

Thank you,

olimits7

Welcome, OL7, to MarriageBuilders...

Have you read all the articles on this website by Dr Harley? About Emotional Needs, Love Busters, recovering from an affair? Basic Concepts is a great place to start.

Do you think you can get closure on an A? Interesting thought.

Why do you think you can't keep bringing up the A? If you have questions, you can ask. Are you saying you can't keep saying, "You didn't do the dishes AND you had an A?" I agree.

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Radical Honesty is essential...you're not married. Do you have children together? I ask because if you're choosing to stick this out and try to recover your relationship, know that it isn't a marriage...Harley advises to dissolve short-term marriages without children in the case of infidelity.

Stuff to ponder. I respect your choice.

"Closure conversation questions:

1. What was it that pushed you to cheat on me?"

Pushed is an interesting word...are you asking what ENs you didn't meet? What LBs you have? NOTHING pushed her to choose to cheat on you...that was her choice made about her...not you.

Owning your half of a relationship is looking within...to study why you do what you...or don't. What your own code is and how you hold to it...or not. Your choices. That's within your province, not hers. She can't make you, and you can't make her anything but a sandwich.

"2. If I didn’t find out that you cheated and we were still going to continue our relationship, were you going to approach me and tell me the truth on what happened?"

Asking questions about what didn't happen is fantasy. Which is what A's are...so I would not ask this. Neither she nor you know what you are going to choose to do until it arrives in the present. The rest isn't truth; it's conjecture.

"Or in your eyes was this the end of the relationship and it didn’t matter what happened that night it was over between us?"

If you're looking here to understand the wayward mindset, I can help you out:

Entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.

Don't take her stuff as The Truth (that she chose to believe it was over and therefore okay to cheat)...it's her truth. Her choices. Her stuff. If you're saying you could have protected yourself from her A had you said this, done that, didn't do or say...then you are in fantasy, not reality.

And believe me, when your partner is in fantasy, it's got a tidal pull to it...no bash or judgment here!

"3. You told me that you didn’t talk in a humorous way about what happened with the friends you went out with that night because it wasn’t something funny or to be taken lightly.

I find this hard to believe that you didn’t gossip or be humorous about what happened that night with your friends because on the myspace message you sent your friend 2 days after the incident you sounded like you had no remorse for what you did and took it so lightly cracking jokes with your friend."

Is it your desire to get to her true character here, to find out if she's got a screw loose or a defect you can't live with? I ask because, as humans, we can choose to act cruelly...doesn't make us cruel. We may not demonstrate our remorse to those we did not offend. Finding out the answer to this question, which I take to be an honesty gauge, is rather roundabout...if you're really not needing to ask but to share...then share.

"I want to believe there was something specific I did which made you have an A. I know I'm not that powerful. I want to be. I feel terrified you'll choose to do this again...that it is what you give yourself permission to do and I fear this pain repeating...even having it now. I quake at my own vulnerability, how much power you seemingly have to slice me open with your choices. I'm learning I have no control over others and I really don't like that human limit."

"Do you honestly feel remorse for what you did to me? Why, in your writing, did you make it sound like it wasn’t a big deal?"

Guilt is a feeling; remorse prompts action. If she's being totally transparent with you...so you can see all her stuff...know who she talks to and for how long...and she's willing to answer all your questions honestly, do the repair through sharing and accountability...then her remorse is geniune. Her self-image on whatever writing/myspace thing isn't real...that's part of fantasy...goes to self-image, not authentic self.

If what you're seeing is that she cares more about what others think than what you feel...her consequences to her choices...then don't salvage this relationship. You cannot do anything to make her feel, prioritize or value your stuff. You can only control how you prioritize and value your own stuff.

"4. I know you weren’t happy with our current relationship and the way things were going, but if you were unhappy why didn’t you break up with me instead of cheating behind my back?"

Here's where MB diverges...you aren't married...there are no vows, no leaping together...if breaking up is a sentence you utter...why are you putting your happiness in it when it can be gone in a heartbeat? Marriage has to be broken, divorced...papers filed, others judging...parties owning stuff...full kowledge of investment, commitment, no easy statement to make and end. There are exit affairs in marriage...in either case, this is what one person chose INSTEAD of honesty, ownership and living in truth...know THIS about your GF...she goes to fantasy, instant gratification, for her own reasons...and they have nothing to do with you, in your power to stop her. Know her as she truly is...know who you choose to love (she can't make you do that, either)...choose to live honestly, with ownership and from truth yourself...

"Breaking up with me would have been the respectful thing to do, but the way you handled our relationship makes me question your character as a person."

Nothing makes you question...you question. You fear. You want to be secure...and in human relationships, there is no security. Please understand that...it's two people committing for a lifetime to grow side by side, sharing a journey. What you do know is that your GF doesn't respect herself or others. What we do to others, we do to ourselves. She chose not to...she is capable of choosing to live respectfully.

"This shows me that if times get tough for us in the future you are very capable of doing this to me again; it’s in your nature."

You think God made some people defective? From disrespect, therefore, they disrespect? Do you think you'll be protected by someone who chooses to respect, own and share honestly because they were made that way? That's in their character? You can find lots of threads here where the stunning part was 10, 15 or 35 years into a marriage, these characters chose to have an affair...which is why I shared the formula with you...because we CHOOSE to create and maintain resentment, to disrespect when our permissions kick in at certain levels, and we build this into entitlement to convince ourselves that cheating is the answer...that reality is too much and fantasy is what we deserve.

The further we get from reality, the closer we get to choosing to do that which breaks down everything. Notice where you go to fantasy in yourself...what you control...where your wishful inner child says, "If I do this, I will not be cheated on" because that's fantasy. False self-comfort. Not real. Our human brains do not know fantasy from reality...how we're made. Teach your brain you want reality with both hands, the freedom and real responsibility in it...and you'll love authentically.

"If we continue our relationship, what comfort can you give me that in the future you won’t do this again? If times get hard in the future and I stray from showing you the emotional needs that you need; will that cause you to cheat on me again or will we talk about the issue and work on a better future together?"

Would you reconsider this question given what I've posted to you? Can you see you're asking if she will share honestly with you, not self-deceive or lie to you? Can you answer this yourself? Do you self-deceive? Can you tell?

I'm not being flippant...again...what we crave most in others we are least giving. Are you safe to be shared with? If she says she feels angry...do you make it about you, something you did or didn't do? Not very safe to share with...however, if you get that her feelings, thoughts, beliefs, perceptions and perspectives are HER truth, not The Truth...comes from within her, about her...and your stuff is yours, not her making you think, feel, etc...then you are in reality. You're safe to share and be shared with.

Which is what intimacy truly is...knowing your own stuff and sharing it...letting go the outcome. That's about your relationship with yourself...the one you have, your half of any other relationship.

"5. I don’t know if you ever cheated during previous relationships; I don’t think you have."

Please recognize you're choosing this belief...you don't know The Truth...and there is The Truth involved...actions are The Truth. Not knowing histories (and Harley has a great sharing personal histories list) is not knowing the truth. Choosing to believe one way or the other without knowing is fantasy. Good to know. No bash here. Why not be okay with not knowing right now...because you don't know.

"But seeing this side of you take’s away from your character that I have grown to love."

Is this your truth? Did her character make you love her? Or your perception of her character? Would you consider that you choose to believe you love, and act on that belief? That the loving feelings you have are signals to you from that belief? Others don't make us love them from being who they are...we choose...and we have reasons within us...know your reasons. Know why you choose this perspective and how much it doesn't sync with reality. Know your own payoffs, some are false ones. Loving is with eyes open, accepting humans for who they really are and judging actions. Not judging their essence.

"I don’t understand why you had to go all the way with that guy, instead of just kissing him. Doesn’t that make you feel used and cheap? Why would you go all the way?"

What are you really asking? Sounds like you're asking, "What boundaries do you have around yourself, that you choose to live up to and defend when others cross them?"

Whatever question you ask, have the answer in yourself, about yourself at the ready.

You may find this one is creating a lot of pain inside you...you live up to your boundary of faithfulness...what you do not allow yourself to cross, and enforce that boundary when others cross it. Right now, you may have had that enforcement as an all or nothing..."If anyone cheats on me, I'm outta there." When you're not "outta there" you hurt...from your own self-betrayal of having a boundary you don't enforce, though you hold yourself to it. Get to know what you do to you, first.

I think a lot of these questions are really about you, signalling for your attention inside.

Boundaries have predetermined progressive enforcements...not all or nothing, btw.

"You always told me that sometimes not always it’s nice to be treated like a lady (ex. open car door, go look at the stars, etc…), but is this really how a lady acts?"

Are you really saying, "You are not earning my love. You have a double standard. You want to be treated with respect and act in disrespect"?

Do you believe we earn love through our actions? If that is what you choose to believe...can you see the back side of that belief? That we earn punishment?

Thank you very much for being here, being brave, researching to learn more and understand more...please know that whatever you learn now benefits all your relationships...with your family, friends, coworkers, and future marriage partner. Seems to me you're working on being the right partner...not making someone else into one.

Lemme know how far off my perception is, 'k?

Welcome.

LA

P.S. You can get a lot more response in the Infidelity General Questions II forum...where people have been where you are now, walked your road...'cuz you're not alone. It gets the most traffic.

Hello,

Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate it.

I read some of the articles and found them very helpful, but I still need to finish reading the rest.

Thanks, I’ll also post this thread in the “Infidelity” forum to see if more people reply to my thread.

I pasted below a post I posted in another forum so you can get a better picture of my current situation:

============================
Here’s a little about my current situation. My GF and I are both 26 years old now. We’ve been going out approx. 3 years. And around the 2 years & 3 months mark into our relationship I decided it would be a good idea for us to take a break from each other.

We were both reaching that marriage stage in our life and I just wanted to be sure that I was ready for this next big step. I’m not going to lie but I’m nervous about marriage because it’s the rest of my life with this person; so I just wanted to be sure.

We had our occasional fights just like every other relationship does. Most of our fights always came back to this one thing. I don’t like to show emotion or say “I love you” all the time and be very affectionate. That wasn’t how I was raised so it’s hard for me to show love that way; my family is the same way. So her side of these discussions is that she wanted to know that she was a priority to me and that I choose her and I’m not settling for her. In my eyes she was a priority to me and I did choose her; I wasn’t settling. She said it was hard for her to see this since I don’t always show it.

This is what led me to decide it was time for a break after so many conversations about the same topic I couldn’t take it anymore. I wanted to see if time apart is what we both needed. She did a lot a crying and at first she didn’t understand why I was doing this. The break lasted for about 3 months. We still saw each other occasionally to meet up for dinner and talk, but on the weekends we didn’t hang out with each other. I thought the break was good for us; we started to understand each other, and saw how we do miss each other. When we finally decided to get back together and give this another shot. At the beginning things were going fine, but then she told me that she felt resentment towards me. She said she went on the break because that’s what I needed but she said she never wanted it; this was all on me and what I wanted only. She said there were night were she would just cry because she didn’t understand. She also felt resentment because she thought I was settling for her.

I would sometimes hang out with my friend’s maybe 1 day on the weekend, and the other day with her, and I would see her a couple days during the week too sometimes. During the beginning of our relationship she was always down to go out with my friends and their girlfriend’s, but towards the end of the relationship she changed. She started saying I just want to stay in tonight, I’m tired, I have a lot of work to do, and I don’t like to go out all the time anymore. However, I compromised with her by staying in sometimes with her and going out without her sometimes because she told me it’s alright to go out without her. She would also go out sometimes but it seemed like she really wanted to almost like I was making her go out. Sometimes we wouldn’t even hang out with each other that long when I stayed in with her; she would fall asleep so early and then I’m sitting there watching TV by myself. I like to go out and I think we are still young enough to do this. Sometimes she acts like she’s an old lady already; I’m tired, sleepy, just want to stay in tonight, I don’t want to drink tonight.

The thing that kills me is that when she goes out with her friends she stays out all night, drinks, has a good time, and never complains to them about getting home early. I don’t know if this is because she didn’t know if I thought she was a priority or I was settling for her that made her act this way around me.

She also brought up that I never showed her any commitment towards her that would make her think that this relationship was moving forward. But the only two options we could come up with that would show her I’m committed is either move in with her or get engaged. She also wanted to know some type of time frame, but I didn’t have an answer for her I just didn’t know when. I thought it would just happen naturally and let life take its course, but she said I can’t just sit around all the time I have to make a decision or have some type of idea. I agree with her on this, but I just didn’t have an answer for her.

The whole reason for the break and me having doubts in our relationship is I just want to be sure I’m making the right decision because this will affect the rest of my life. I rather clear up all my doubts now than to go through this 10 years down the road when we are married and have children.

Anyway, now onto the cheating. For the past 2 weeks I’ve been staying at her apartment because my house was having construction done and I couldn’t stay there. The first couple of days were fine, we got along, and it was fun being around each other. But then later in the week all we would do is talk about my commitment towards her, how she felt I was settling for her because all my friends don’t go out anymore and just hang out with their girlfriends, and how it took my friends to get girlfriends for me to put her as a priority. She had a lot of resentment towards me.

So this past Saturday we decided to take the night off and just go out with our friends since we’ve been spending so much time together. She went out with her friend that was seeing some guy and a couple of this guy’s friends. Anyway, she ended up going home with one of the guy’s friend and she slept with him.

I had her password to her myspace account and the next day I saw some messages to her friend talking about how “one night stands were fun”, and “it was amazing to have sex with no emotional attachment”. She also said “but remember technically I still have a boyfriend. LOL”. I know it’s not right to check her messages, but I was getting suspicious about her and I have to look out for myself in the end. Every time I read those words it makes my stomach turn.

I confronted her about this and she denied at first, of course, she finally got me in tears and I told her I saw the messages and she finally admitted she did do it. She felt bad and started crying; I couldn’t even look at her or have her touch me. I felt disgusted she would do this and I didn’t even want to tell anybody because I feel embarrassed for her as well as myself. She just kept saying I’m sorry. She told me she poured her heart out for me for years and all she ever wanted was me to want her like she wanted me. And I told her I had doubts that I needed to clear up. I never cheated on her because this is something I think that could ruin a relationship. She always said if I wanted to end our relationship all I had to do is sleep with a girl. I never did, but I can’t understand why she did this to me.

I was never very emotional towards her but I always was there for her if she needed anything; money, a favor, anything that I can do I was there. This is what was easy for me to show her that I cared. Saying I love you and being cute and cuddly is not who I am.

I’m afraid to tell my friends because I know they will tell me I’m an idiot if I try staying with her. I just don’t know what to do now. I don’t know if I can look at her anymore and try to make this work or just tell my friends for some comfort and leave her.

I don’t know why it’s so hard for me to walk away from her. In a way I can see that how I acted by not putting her as a priority, not showing long term commitment towards her, or wanting her as much as she wanted me could have drove her to do this. But should I take some blame for this?? I told her that after all we’ve been through I would never have done this to her, and I don’t get why she did this to me.

I had for the most part a normal upbringing my parents still are together and everyone in my family gets along fine. Her family is a lot different and she has her own issues. She tells me she cries some days and she doesn’t even know why she is crying. Her real dad died over drugs when she was young. And she told me that I deserve better than her. She said that her life is all messed up and nothing ever goes right in her life. She always has thoughts racing through her head and she can’t stop thinking about them. She has gone to therapists before and she said they just didn’t help her. She said it’s hard for her to see herself in a positive way; she has no confidence. She said her mom is the same way as her and that she hid this from me for as long as she could but in the end no body can ever love her because the way she is. She hates how her life is and says she just wants to be normal.

When she gets like this and starts crying I just give her the space she needs until she gets over this. She has such a good heart and I think this is what kept me here for so long even after all we’ve been through. I think this is what makes it so hard for me to walk away. She deserves to have a good happy life and for someone to love her the way she loves so many (friends & family & me). She just needs help controlling the racing thoughts in her head, see positive in herself, and stop crying for no apparent reason.

I told her she has to look and do some research online to find someone who could really help her and not to give up. I tell her all the good in her life and how her life is just like everyone else’s. She just has a hard time seeing it herself. I’m not a therapist so there is only so much I can say to help her. I think with a professional she can find happiness within herself.

If anybody has any recommendations on someone in the NJ/NY area it will be greatly appreciated.

But when she’s happy, smiling, and telling me how good her day was. I love seeing her in that light because I can see how she really is when so many people don’t understand her.

I don’t know if I’m staying here because I love her or that I feel bad for her and I don’t think she deserves to live a life by herself.

These were some of the doubts I had with her and why I’ve been hesitant moving the relationship forward. Some of the questions that run through my mind are will she be a good mother? Will I be able to deal with this for the rest of my life? Will she get better? Will our children have the same issues she has? Is this how I really want my life to be.

Sorry for the long post, but any input would be appreciated.

Thank you, again.

olimits7

OL7,

Thank you for more details...good to know. Before I respond, I would like you to respond to my post, please. Can you confirm or clarify any of my questions?

LA

Hello,
It was very interesting to read your post. I have made a few posts under In Recovery that may give some insight.... from what people have told me. My husband and I are also young and I am the one who cheated on him. I had a ONS about a year ago and he has been having a lot of difficulties with it. Still a year later he will just have a mood swing and I know it is because of what I did. I have had to come to grasps that this is his way of healing.... though it really sucks and I hate it... I did this to myself.... Your GF will have to accept that the choice she made has consequences. One thing I can say is ask her questions but dont attack her.... to me, reading those questions some came accross as really harsh or mean which if my husband were to ask me I would get on the defense and start to point fingers.... from the counseling he and I have gone through together and on my own I have been taught that it is important to state things in how "I Feel" or "this made me feel like" statements.... it will help your GF not feel as if you are attacking her and she may answer more of your questions.....

lovinganyway stated "Harley advises to dissolve short-term marriages without children in the case of infidelity." We do not have kids and there was infidelity, but not once has this piece of advise been given to me.... it is hard for me to say this because sometimes i really think i am looking for an out, but God is the God of miracles and can help both you and your GF grow from this experiance.... God has a way of using these bad things for good in the future..... If you want to talk at all I would be more than happy to give you a female perspective to try and assist in anyway.
LITW

Hello,


Yes, by the word pushed I do mean what emotional needs I didn’t meet for her. In my new post above you can see how I used a tough & cold protection to shelter my true feelings (I guess I was protecting myself). I didn’t express myself the way she needed me to; so she could feel her emotional needs being met.

I know it was her choice that made her decide to go through it, but I do hold myself somewhat accountable. She was faithful with me for 3 years, and I guess everyone reaches their breaking point eventually.

I was very good to her, treated her nice, and was always there physically for her when she needed me. But when it came to being there emotionally this is what I lacked in giving her. There would be numerous days she would cry to me and ask questions like why I didn’t want her the way she wanted me, or why I saw so many doubts in our relationship.

When I think I tend to hold back a lot and 2nd guess myself and us. Nobody knows what the future holds and I guess I can’t use my own perception of the future to judge our relationship today. Because the “present” time we would get along great until these same questions would come up and I would try to avoid them. We basically been having the same topic discussion as above for the past 3 years without every getting anywhere.

Why can’t I just let myself go and take a chance for once in my life? Or is it right that I think about all the doubts in our relationship and try to see if this would work in the future?



I guess I can’t ask this question because it is a fantasy question. Now that I know what she did and approached her on it, I will never get to find out if she would have approached me on what she did.

I do feel that girls in general have an easier time to find a guy to sleep with. I feel guys have a lot harder time to cheat on their GF because girls usually hold all the power to that decision. I just wish with all that power she would have better judgment on the choices she makes and who they will affect.



Yes, I’m trying to get to her true character. You make a very good point with the myspace message going to her self-image. This makes a lot of sense to me for her acting like that in front her friends. It just hurt seeing how she used those words.

When I talked to her about this the first time she felt terrible, cried, and apologized. Which I think would be the natural response from anyone who had been caught cheating. The way she reacted of me knowing felt very sincere, and I do believe her and not her just showing her self-image in the myspace message.

Right now we’re in the taking some time to our selves phase to get clear thoughts on what we want from this relationship; so I haven’t been talking to her that much lately or so much in depth on what happened. She said she needs this right now; so I’m respecting her EN for once this time.



So are you saying that since she chose to go to fantasy, that she can also choose to live a healthy relationship with no more stepping into fantasy again? I think if I actually start meeting her emotional needs that she will never think about fantasy again.

Your right, CHOOSE is definitely a key work in all of this. I need to either choose to be with her or not. And if I choose to be with her I need to take the good with the bad and stop focusing on the bad all the time to base my decisions on our future relationship. It’s very easy for me to see the bad because it stands out so much more, but I have to have an equal balance on the good as well as the bad.

Can you explain what you mean by reality here? You say that if I understand that her feelings, thoughts, etc… are HER truth ant not “The Truth” and I understand my feelings, thoughts, etc… are my truth then we are in reality.

I don’t fully understand this; when does reality disappear or cross the line?



This does cause a lot of pain inside me because I feel that no girl that has respect for herself would let themselves do that and still feel like a lady. She did cross a boundary that I can’t understand. The worse part is I always told myself that if a girl ever cheated on me that would be the end of it, but here I am trying to fight for our relationship. I think the reason I’m still here is because I can see where I’m at some fault for pushing her away. I know it was her choice but I feel I did push her. I even told her I’m an idiot for still being here and trying to talk to her, and she tells me that I’m not.

The words she wrote in the myspace message pierce me whenever I read them. One part that stands out now is she said to her friend “regular sex would be good. No emotional attachment would be necessary”. I’m a nice guy and I always showed her nothing but respect because that’s how I was brought up. Do all girls really need their emotional needs always met, and if there not being met they will find them elsewhere with another guy? I feel that if we work through this and continue our relationship I have to be I’m my toes all the time; just to make sure I don’t fall below the emotional needs line.

Thank you, again.

Olimits7