Okay, so what if your FWS weren't 2 fall off the fidelity wagon by having another A (even specifically saying so), but insisted after 5 years since d-day, that they don't want 2 be married in the sense we talk about here, and that they want 2 be able 2 have friends of the opposite sex, even if that friend is their former A partner?
Like mine said 2night.
Oh, and some time ago she put a pic2re on her bulletin board that was taken around when the A started 16 or so years ago, that shows several coworkers standing outside their field lab - including, you guessed it, Rat Meat.
I saw this pic2re maybe a few weeks ago. It may or may not have been there for a while before I noticed it.
See, my problem is that, even without infidelity looming again, we still haven't really recovered our marriage. (How can we, if she insists she doesn't want a marriage?)
And 2 make matters "worse", I don't want it either.
I'm worn out. I'm not angry, though I do have 2 be careful and not raise my voice because she wanted 2 talk - I just don't see anything productive 2 talk about.
I had thought, over the past few months or so, of asking her if she would be willing 2 participate in coaching with the Harleys if I paid for it. I haven't ac2ally asked that 2uestion, but I'm pretty sure she wouldn't want 2. And I long ago realized that coaching or doing anything 2 unilaterally save a marriage that the FWS still insists she doesn't want after 5 years since d-day, is just a waste of time and money.
-ol' 2long
2Long, you posted the above on Pep's thread, and I didn't want to TJ that thread just to speak directly with you, hence this thread.
"I had thought, over the past few months or so, of asking her if she would be willing 2 participate in coaching with the Harleys if I paid for it. I haven't ac2ally asked that 2uestion, but I'm pretty sure she wouldn't want 2." As a proponent of "MB ways" to recover and rebuild marriages without any "outside" intervention, may I ask you if you really do believe that the "MB ways" really do work if they are followed?
It would appear that
"I'm pretty sure she wouldn't want 2" is a bit of, maybe a big bit of, a Disrespectful Judgment concerning your wife.
Now, it may actually BE the response, but if we assume that she does want to remain married to you even if she is saying those "WS-like" things about friends, especially RM, and if you really would like to move on to Recovered instead of remaining in the perpetual limbo of "recovery," don't you think that it makes plain sense to ASK the question and actually get a response?
For me, the "breaking point" would be any contact with the OM at all. That is a "Boundary Issue" with me and the consequences attached to a violation of that Boundary are dependent upon the "willfulness," if you will, of that contact. The "friendship line" was irretrievably crossed and cannot be reestablished anymore than you can put a smashed china cup back together again, no matter how much you "wish" you could.
A FWS who does not recognize that is in self-denial. A FWS who recognizes the hurt that the former "bad decision" caused in his/her spouse AND then seeks to justify continued contact with the co-conspirator is a FWS who does NOT understand or accept the concept of Fidelity in a marriage and sacrifice for the spouse. A "Spouse" is NOT single and everything they do must, voluntarily, be considered in the light of "is it good for my spouse and the marriage and not just my own wants and desires?"
If you are "comfortable" with a spouse who wants to put her needs ahead of yours, especially when the OBJECT is to interact with the person who "raped" you against your will, then you have to accept the "doormat" role.
THAT does not sound like the 2Long that vigorously engaged me on many issues and I'm not even married to you.
2Long, I have long said, and you know it, that CHANGE most often is the result of a CRISIS. A "crisis" is precipitated by loving confrontation when those Boundary issues are violated and when the person whose Boundary has been violated has the cajones to "just say 'no'" and says so. You cannot force a change in anyone, but no one can, or will, change unless they come to see the destructiveness of their behavior and that the behavior "is not who they want to be."
"insisted after 5 years since d-day, that they don't want 2 be married in the sense we talk about here, and that they want 2 be able 2 have friends of the opposite sex, even if that friend is their former A partner?
Like mine said 2night."If you'll forgive me for a moment, this sounds like a paleontologist constructing a "missing link" out of a pig's tooth. It's all in THEIR interpretation of the "data."
You look at the same "data" and you see a completely different interpretation that says, "yep, it's a tooth, but I have no where it came from or what it belonged to."
You look around for other "parts" and you discover the entire carcass of the Wooly Mammoth with a missing tooth that matches the tooth that was found. You conclude, reasonably, that the tooth came from the Mammoth and that the paleontologist's interpretation that it came from an 'ancient missing link of a Man' was incorrect, and was based on the paleotologist's "bias" in favor of "finding" things to support her preconceived belief.
Her preconceived belief in this instance is that her past "bias" has no bearing on her "interpretations" of today. Wooly Mammoth is still there and is still a Wooly Mammoth. Rat Meat is still there and is still Rat Meat.
In other words, despite evolutionary bias', if you'll again pardon my analogy, a leopard really can't change it's spots and playing with fire WILL get someone burned eventually if they keep insisting on putting their hand INTO the fire pit, they will not "evolve" asbestos hands in this lifetime.
Isn't this a opportune time to actually confront, in love, just what it MEANS to be in a monogamous marriage?
Good luck.
