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i know that you eally understand the buyer, renter and freeloader concepts. would you please read over my post from this morning and tell me if i'm understanding it correctly? it's at the bottem of this page buyers, renters, and freeloaders thanks pep
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later,gator
I've done all the damage I can do at work today ... goin' HOME
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before i went tobed last night, i realized that i hadn't brought in my recycle bin.
i opened the front door to go get it and the buyers, renters, and freeloaders book was in between the regular door and the storm door.
i have no idea how long it's been there while i've been waiting. i don't use that door often since i always come in through the garage.
anyway. i was up almost all night reading it.
and i've discovered something awful. it probably explains my situation and why there has been no change in my husband's feelings towards me.
it seems that we were both buyers. when i became so very depressed after my father's suicide, for more than 5 years, i became a freeloader. heck i was never even a real buyer-i worked all the time and didn't ever do the recreational things that my husband enjoyer. i was too selfish and demanding to be considered a buyer-maybe I was only a renter.
and my husband's giver, just kept giving because he was a real buyer.
it's the awful truth.
so my husband, the dear, sweet guy that i've been so confused about because i believe he's a buyer at heart, he did change his thinking and his values.
but not the way that others here have.
from the book "when one buyer becomes a freeloader, the other buyer has to either change the freeloader back into a buyer, or change their own values to become a renter or a freeloader themselves to allow them to leave the relationship."
i think that he changed from a buyer to a renter and then to a freeloader not BECAUSE of the affair, but so that he could HAVE the affair.
as a buyer, he was in our marriage for the long haul and he wasn't getting anything in return for a very long time since i had become a freeloader. so in ourder for HIM toavoid a life of misery and neglect, HE had to change his values so that he could leave the relationship. my h actually convinced himself that he hated me so that he could walk away from his lifetime committment.
this would explain why he choose to go online and seek out someone to meet those needs that i wasn't and then move out once he had someone to go to.
when he came home, and we had our false recovery, he went back into his buyer mode.
Then HE plan A'd ME like crazy.(and he didn't even know the plans) he did this for 8 months before he realized that he couldn't turn me into a buyer......i was a renter who was now ANGRY because of the affair.
so he started the affair again and started spending MUCH time on the phone with his family to gain their support as he transformed back into a freeloader so that he could leave our relationship for good.
so it took his plan B to me....1st by withdrawing from me while living with me and then by actually leaving....
to turn me into the buyer i should have always been because HE deserved that kind of a partner in return.
i think it's possible the OW might be in a similiar situation. who knows if her husband became the freeloader first or if she did.
that's why this affair is lasting so long. my husband is a buyer at heart, he wants to be a buyer again. if the OW is a renter and he is willing to put extra effort into the relationship, things could work out for them. If she is also a buyer at heart, and also left her relationship due to neglect, then she may happily settle into a buyer/buyer relationship with my husband.
so even though i didn't do it on purpose, my neglect of my husband caused him such misery that he changed from a good guy into that monster so that he could get away from me [color:"blue"] so, from what I gather ... this information was both painful ~and~ useful for you what was your question? [/color]
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[color:"blue"]the "Giver" is the one who ruins marriages, yanno
giving without limits trains the other spouse to be in chronic Taker mode
by NOT letting the other spouse know when "enough is enough" [/color]
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thanks for taking the time to read my post pepper.
even though what i've described isn't how it seems most affairs happen, does it seem as though i've understood the concepts from the book and applied them in the right way for my situation?
i did read that giving without taking allows the other spouse to keep taking.....but that doesn't make me feel any better for being so selfish now that i realize what i did. his giver finally got fed up he became resentful and felt neglected enough to find someone to give to him for a change
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ps
the information was painful...actually heart breaking because it makes the outlook of my already bad situation even worse.
useful? in understanding what i did wrong.
but after i've already lost my husband so it's really too late.
so no....not really useful
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pepper
i don't think that my husband's giving to me ruined our marriage at all.
it was my constant taking and giving nothing in return until he became so resentful that he finally said "enough" and found someone willing to give to him instead.
lostsheep is asking about this also on her thread right now and this is being discussed
what i've learned from the book is that i've been an awful wife and the A and my H leaving is my fault like i thought
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Eav I swear I'm going to crawl into my computer and shake you!!!! Your H's leaving is your H's decision. NOT YOURS! I'm saying this nicely, with a hug in my mind... b/c you don't need 2x4s. Please read what I wrote on your other thread that Mimi started for you.
...sorry to butt in on this thread!
~lostsheep
Me, FWW -34
Him, BH - 36
DD6
Dday#1 - 3/04
NC broken 4/04, A resumed 3/05
Dday#2 - 7/05
Dday#3 - 3/06
NC 2/5/07
H moved out 4/06, asked me to file for DV 11/06
DV final 3/7/07
...trying to be H's friend again...and finding my way
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eav,
You can spin this any way you want, but your H's decision to have an affair, rather than just divorce you was his choice. He actually had four obvious choices. 1. Keep taking it. 2. Try to change the marriage some how 3. Divorce you 4. Have an affair.
You played a role in this marriage and your analysis may be right with regard to him finally giving up, and justifying his giving up, but it does not change the fact that he had choices.
You do as well. You clearly have chosen to work on yourself. That is a very good choice. You have chosen to learn and educate yourself that is a good one. You have chosen to take all of the blame, that is a bad one.
You have more coming. 1. Divorce H 2. Hang in there and hope the A dies. 3. change how you interact with him and hope the A dies.
Since you feel that one time you both were buyers, a good think I think, then in reality you both are still buyers. The only question is do either of you have something the other wants to buy?
As we discussed on Lostsheep's thread the dynamics of the giver and taker is NOT linear, but one thing is clear a imbalance between the giver and taker is almost always a bad thing in the long run.
Balance up your giver and taker. You will find it easier to set boundaries with your H. You will find it easier to make some hard decisions. AND you will be able to help with his guilt when/if he comes back.
Don't give up, just move up.
God Bless,
JL
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Don't give up, just move up. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE THIS!!!!
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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pepper
i don't think that my husband's giving to me ruined our marriage at all.
it was my constant taking and giving nothing in return until he became so resentful that he finally said "enough" and found someone willing to give to him instead. I don't think you really understand the concepts or the purpose of reading about Giver/Taker ~you see~ the purpose of these concepts is to understand the dynamics that make up every intimate relationship .... the purpose of reading this book is NEVER to assign blame ... but to illuminate future choices it's not going to help you recover your marriage ~~~ all this self-blame is more self-indulgence a much more difficult book that deals with similar ideas is David Schnarch's "Passionate Marriage" .... where he speaks of differentiation of the self in intimate closeness.... How to remain true to the self while still caring for the relationship ... and what Schnarch states most clearly is this: these (giver/taker) are essential problems that challenge every long term intimate relationship and the forging of true marriage passion always goes through this fire (he calls it the crucible)so, for you to take on this entire thing is not only a mistaken notion, it also denies the other spouse their share of growing Pep
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