FH -
Over on pHB's thread, you were talking about divorce vs separation, and the responsibilities of a believer in these situations.
If I understand you correctly, the only times divorce are permissible (from a Christian/Biblical point of view) for a believer are:
1. Marital Infidelity
2. Unequally yoked, and the unbeliever decides to leave.
Where does that leave a believer who feels they are trapped in a loveless marriage that has been struck by infedility?
Healingbird – It “leaves” a believer dependent upon God and in submission of their “feelings” to God and His commands, just as it does in all situations. If that is a “bad” thing, then all believers have a problem either with God (as in they are angry with God) or with their own walk with God, in my humble opinion.
This “loveless marriage” thing is a large topic that involves the purpose of marriage (the “why” did God create both woman and marriage in the first place) and more specifically to your own situation (as it was and is in my own marriage), what does God command of husbands and what responsibilities “belong” to the husband in a marriage.
Let’s not get into all of that right now, since I really don’t understand what it is specifically that you are dealing with or what specific information you are seeking that might be relevant to your own situation. Let me simply give you one “truth” for husbands that comes from God’s commands to husbands…. “Husbands love your wives…..”
If there isn’t love in a marriage, it is the fault of the husband. It is the husband’s responsibility to love their wives
as Christ loves the church.Men are commanded to provide the love just as Christ has “modeled” that love for His “bride.” For some, who have wives who are also believers, the “response” to that “Christ-like” love is a loving response. Look no further than to the “family of believers” to understand that it takes “maturing in the faith” to grow and to walk closer with Christ, to have a love for Christ grow and deepen, and to have response to Christ’s love FOR the individual that results in a “reciprocal” love for Christ on the part of the recipient who was “first loved by God, while they were yet sinners.”
The so-called “macho man” IS what Christ modeled, not the “macho man” that society has twisted into self-centeredness.
Is there a statute of limitations on infidelity for divorce within a Christian marriage? In other words, if a BS, upon learning of the affair, decides to try and save the marriage, do they then "give up" the right to divorce, if the affair is truly over?
You have entered the realm of “human emotions” and “human ability” with this question and tied it to a legal system of “statute of limitations.”
Again, I am certain that you have some particular thought or thoughts in mind that are specific to what you are feeling and how your own marriage recovery efforts seem to have been “going.” So, let’s just talk about this from two standpoints right now. The first is my own opinion, the second is what God has said in His Word.
My opinion is that you are a fallen human being just like me. We have the emotions that were given to us by God, and like the emotion of love, they can all be applied or misapplied by us when we allow the emotions to “take control.” WHAT we do in response to those real emotions is what is “important,” not that we DO have the emotions and feelings. God KNOWS these. Paul, in his writings also “fought that battle daily.” It is because we are not yet with God and in receipt of our glorified bodies.
But God does not leave believers to their own finite strength and abilities. God indwells all believers and provides His own strength to us. A poor analogy would be you can chop down trees and cut up logs to burn in your woodstove to provide heat for your 3000 square foot house… or you can hook up to the natural gas supply that comes from far beyond your reach or ability to ‘tap into’ on your own, and use that “unlimited supply of power” to heat your home. Keep in mind always, that you can apply or misapply that power because YOU will determine if you use the correct furnace or have a gas leak that will eventually blow up your house. The POWER is the same and only how you apply it will determine the outcome for “good or bad.”
Here is the “power supply” for Christians: “I can do all things through him (Christ) who gives me strength.” (Philippians 4:13)
ACCESS to the power is not enough. Correct application of that power is what is needed. Sometimes that “application” is waiting. The “other house” needs to be heated first, the electrical power (if we want to substitute electrical supply for gas) has to be restored to another house before it can get to my own house.
That was a long-winded intro into an attempt to address your questions in this quotation. Let me restate it here to keep it in focus:
“Is there a statute of limitations on infidelity for divorce within a Christian marriage? In other words, if a BS, upon learning of the affair, decides to try and save the marriage, do they then "give up" the right to divorce, if the affair is truly over?” Having said the “intro,” the answer to your first question is “no,” there is no “statute of limitations” on infidelity as the basis of a divorce….
IF you (the Betrayed Spouse) cannot do two things. 1) Forgive as God has forgiven you. 2) Love your wife enough to live with her as she works through the process of repentance, a changed life, and her own surrender to and walk with God.
Humans tend to be an impatient lot, myself included. We want things NOW! The mere idea that the average recovery time is TWO YEARS screams at us and our emotions that “I can’t wait that long!!!!” Part of, a major part of, recovery for the Betrayed Spouse is their own commitment to their own marriage vows, i.e., “for better or for
worse, until
death do us part. Another part is their own walk with God and submission to God. Another part is their evaluation of their spouse’s walk with God and the sincerity of their repentance (not the completion of that repentance) at this time (there are many tendrils of an affair that Satan will continue to use to try to derail any attempt to forsake sin and return to God).
The second half of your question,
“do they then "give up" the right to divorce, if the affair is truly over,” is also a “no.” You “give up your right to divorce” when you choose to. It really is that simple. God has recognized at least two things, in MY opinion, with respect to the Betrayed Spouse in a “marital unfaithfulness” situation. 1) The enormity of the sin itself is HUGE in God’s eyes (marriage creates a “one flesh” situation that in some ways is similar to the mystery of God is Three in ONE). It would be along the same lines as the magnitude of betrayal if one of the “three in one” were to betray God. 2) God understands the human emotions you are dealing with because Jesus felt them all in His fully human incarnation, He KNOWS the limitations of Man without the power of God to sustain him beyond his own resources and capabilities.
An argument can be drawn that you “give up your right to a divorce” if you subsequently have sexual relations with your spouse, but I personally think that it’s the “mental adultery” that is important, not the act itself. This is too large an issue to get into now, with much opinion on all sides, but the thought I want to try to get across to you is that of “mental state,” i.e., deception, true repentance, a ‘appearance’ of holiness, etc.. IF an unbelieving spouse is willing to live with you “as if” they were a believer following God’s commands, then you are NOT to divorce them. But “if they leave,” you can.
Apply that thought to a FWS who repents, or appears to have repented. Then apply that thought to a FWS who is also a believer who has repented of his/her sin. What does God do with a “flawed” vessel, as the “Master Potter?” Does God instantly create a completed new vessel (He could you know)? Or does He mold it and shape it, applying needed “pressure” here and there as the vessel He wants begins to take the shape He wants, in order for it to eventually BE a vessel worthy of service for Him without the former flaws?
If it does, then it seems like the BS is at the mercy, to some degree, of the WS. If the WS is unwilling to recommit to the marriage (by which I mean actively work on recovering the marriage), is the BS then doomed to a life stuck in a loveless marriage?
I guess the only rational answer is that “yes” in some ways a BS who is seeking to recover their spouse and their marriage IS to some degree “at the mercy” of the FWS and their commitment to the marriage and to the recovery efforts. But all BS’s know that “going in.” For believers, however, the true one that we are “at the mercy of” is God. God is Sovereign and we are His servants. We DO what God commands whether we “like it or not” in many things, and forgiving sin against us is no different. But God does NOT command anything of us that He does not also provide us with all the resources to enable us to humbly obey His commands. THAT is the point of Philippians 4:13. It is NOT that obedience is always “easy.” It is that we obey regardless, simply because God, not us, is Sovereign, and has the right to command us. But because God is also a loving God, He does not merely command, which would be His right. He also gives us all that is necessary to allow us to be obedient, even unto death. So the logical question would seem to be along the lines of “am I willing to die for my spouse if that is what is needed,” for example, to show them the truth of God’s promises to believers no matter what our “circumstances” might be? No, it’s not always “easy,” but “doing the right thing” is often not the “easy way out.”
What kind of example does that set for children? They won't learn what a true marriage looks like - they'll grow up learning a sham. The BS may be inhibited from being all they can be because of the pain and sorrow they suffered/are suffering. How can a BS teach the children what a true marriage is like, when they themselves are not party to one?
Examples. What is it that you are trying to teach the children? That human emotions, needs, and wants, supercede God’s commands? What is it about God’s forgiveness of YOUR sins that you want the children to understand that would apply to God’s forgiveness of THEIR sins? What is it that you can “be all that you can be” apart from God? What is it that you think a “true marriage” is?
Let’s just talk about ONE aspect of a marriage. Forgiveness. What sort of marriage is it that does not incorporate forgiveness of offenses? What sort of marriage is it that does not model “self-sacrifice” for the good of others, be it the spouse or the children and THEIR needs? What IS love that God models for us? “This is love, that while we were yet sinners (and totally unworthy), Christ died for us.”
An old saying is “we learn from our mistakes.” What is more “valuable,” the mistake, or the learning and applying that learning to our lives today and into the future? Do we “escape” all consequences of our “mistakes” or do we sometimes have to live with the consequences for “a while,” perhaps even “for the rest of our lives?” What IS it that you might want to teach those “young impressionable skulls full of mush?”
What, perhaps, might be a “bigger sham,” to show sacrificial and forgiving love or to show “no fault divorce” that allows everyone to do whatever they want regardless of what God has said about the covenant of marriage?
As a corollary, if both spouses are believers, but the WS is not repentant, does that make them an unbeliever? OR backslidden? How can the BS know, since no one but God and the person in question knows the true status of their heart?
Okay, let’s take this in two parts.
First,
“if both spouses are believers, but the WS is not repentant, does that make them an unbeliever? OR backslidden?”If both spouses are believers, then the WS is backslidden, ensnared by sin, and running from surrender to God. They are guilty of idolatry also, in that they are putting themselves on the “throne” instead of God. They have “wandered away” from the faith and gotten lost in the lies of Satan. But God’s promise to believers is that Jesus will NOT let them remain there. HE will go looking for them (and He knows how to find them) and HE will lead them back. He will not “instantly transport them back to the fold,” He will LEAD them back. Lessons need to learned along the way, primarily the lesson of FOLLOWING Christ no matter where they are or how far away from God they might think they are.
Second,
“How can the BS know, since no one but God and the person in question knows the true status of their heart?” This is where James comes in. IF someone says that they have faith, but there are no “works of faith” to show their faith is real, then it would seem a reasonable conclusion that they are either lying or are fooling themselves.
Genuine faith WILL result in “good works,” not to earn someone forgiveness and justification before God, but because that desire is a natural response to what God first did for us. It is part of what becoming a “new creation in God” is all about. It is the application of our “Free Will” to activities that are centered in “pleasing God” not in “pleasing ourselves.” Thus, when James refers to “showing you his faith by his works” he is stating a biblical truth that “works,” i.e. “good works,” are a natural outcome of a true saving faith wherein someone has truly been “born again.” The “works” themselves earn us nothing (there are rewards that believers will be given in heaven that are connected to their works in response to what God did for them) with respect to salvation and justification before God, but they do manifest themselves as a “heart condition,” a loving response to God for what He did for us while we were totally and completely unworthy of His act of love for us.
How will you know? “Test the spirits” and you will know if they are “of God” or not. The “measure” is the Word of God. Unless YOU know what is in the Word of God, how WOULD anyone know if what they are seeing and hearing is “of God” or of someone else? God does not command that you love only fellow believers. God commands that we love all people simple because they are all fellow beings created in the image of God. We DO NOT have to agree with them or live with them, but the “household of God” is one that God also provides us with the “tools” to evaluate anyone’s “profession of faith.” It is also our responsibility to come alongside of brothers and sisters in Christ to support and assist them if they are “wandering” from the faith, not to cast them off without lovingly attempting to gain reconciliation through a Matthew 18:15-20 approach. Likewise, we try to help fellow believers who may not be a part of our “local” congregation or household, simply because we are ALL the “bride of Christ” and members of that “one body” in Christ.
I understand that God's timing is not ours. I'm just having some difficulty figuring out how long one is supposed to wait upon the Lord. Years? Decades? An entire lifetime? How do you know when it is permissable to leave a given situation and stay within God's will?
I can’t answer that sort of question for you. Each of us has to answer that question for themselves. There are MANY factors that are “in play,” but the answer really lies in your own relationship with God and you own evaluation of “what is important to you.”
God hates divorce. A study of what God “hates” is very enlightening, and might be something that you would find edifying in your own situation.
Having said that, Jesus also grants a Faithful Spouse the right to a divorce based on “marital unfaithfulness” because He KNOWS how incredibly difficult it is for humans, with their emotions and their limited strength, to truly and fully forgive such an offense. Some of that is part of the “hardness of the heart” that Jesus spoke of and that the Jews of Jesus’ day used to divorce for any and all reasons, and some of that is God’s command to “not be unequally yoked.”
Many of us married without much concern for our spouse’s walk with God. But the “premium” that God places on being “equally yoked” to Jesus’ “yoke” is HUGE, especially in “times of trouble.”
So let “dodge” your question this way, if I may. How long should God wait for any person to “come to Jesus” and receive forgiveness of their sins?
WHY would God wait even on minute, much less a person’s entire lifetime?
Try this one on, and meditate on it for a while….. Agape Love.
I know that there are people on these forums (like yourself and MortarMan) who have gone through this ordeal for years and come out the other side - stronger for it, and recovered or working on it (personally and/or maritally). I'm just a little hazy on the scriptual side of it.
There are many Scriptural references that could be listed. But rather than do that (you can do a search just as easily as I can), let me just get you started.
“To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal” says the Holy One.
Lift your eyes and look to the heavens: Who created all these?
He who brings out the starry host one by one, and calls them each by name.
Because of his great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing.
Why do you say, O Jacob, and complain, O Israel, “my way is hidden from the LORD; my cause is disregarded by my God?
Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth.
He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom.
He gives strength to the weary and increases the power of the weak.
Even youths grow tired and weary, and young men stumble and fall; but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength.
They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint. (Isaiah 40:25-31)
“For I am the LORD, your God, who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, Do not fear; I will help you.
Do not be afraid, O worm Jacob, O little Israel, for I myself will help you,” declares the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel. (Isaiah 41:13-14)
Healingbird, I grew “weary” many times. Several times I said “how long Lord?” Several times I felt abandoned and ready to “toss in the towel.” Why didn’t I?
Trust in God. Evaluation of where we were versus where we were “back then.” Confrontation, in a loving way, each time there was a “backstep,” as in contact.
Patience in knowing that I might not understand, but God did and God knew what was needed to arrive at the “marriage vessel” He wanted us to be for Him.
Surrender TO God, and not to my emotions. Faithfulness to my own vow of “’till death do us part.” Commitment to my original decision that “if we are going to divorce then you will have to file because I will not.”
It is NOT easy. It is NOT “pain free.” It IS love.
All I can tell you is that it took over 4 years for my wife to finally be able to fully extricate herself from all the tendrils of her affair. All I can tell you is that TODAY my wife is not just my wife, she is my lover too. She is now “in love” with me emotionally too. She is in a closer walk with God and is amazed that she made such a bad choice, and grateful to both God and me that we “didn’t give up on her.”
I'd appreciate any insight you'd be willing to share.
I don’t know how “insightful” any of that was. But as a fellow brother in Christ, I am always willing to share what I can.
God bless.
