I bet if you don't call her back, she'll call back again in the next week.

She still denies it, even when I confronted her telling her I know what she said, I know how she said it, and how she sounded with a voice I haven't heard since the beginning of our relationship. I said a lot but at this point it's wasted breath. I told her I feel there is something bigger than me, bigger than the both of us that tells me we could have better than anything. She's still hurt it took her moving out for me to change and uses that as her excuse for the divorce. She said I'll be better for my next wife.

I also told her I'd been waiting for her to ask for forgiveness but that I finally realized all I needed was a genuine want to forgive her. And so I told her in spite of all the pain and heartache and things she's done, I forgive her.

I'd bought us tickets to see Cirque de Soleil for Christmas and we'd planned on going but she said I would not be going because it's over. That's what the call was originally about because she thought I'd taken them. She said there's nothing I can do if she files for divorce and it ends up being over.

You're forgiving for something she's done that she won't even acknowledge, much less show any guilt or remorse for doing?

I know...

That fits the script perfectly.



Stay away from the A, R or M talk, or discussion of remorse on her part. It won't be productive right now.

JR - take some time to pull yourself together, get some rest, and...BE STILL. Are you needy or clingy right now? Don't be. You have things going on that you need to sort out. Talk to some friends, family. Avoid over-calling her right now.

This is pretty standard stuff, really, read the posts from many others - it's like watching remakes of the same horror film OVER and OVER again, just different actors.

It's on you: Can you regain your strength? You need to be the composed one, she may present that "front" to you, but she's really not all that composed inside.

Be loving, caring, NON-JUDGEMENTAL, and stay in your Plan A right now. Most importantly: Be still.

Oh, and on the D filing thing, some of my responses to statements about divorce included:

1. I do not want a divorce, I married you for life.
2. Divorce is such a useless tragedy. Divorce = Destruction of family.
3. You'll have to do what you have to do, I'm fighting for my marriage and will continue to do so.
4. I don't talk divorce, I only talk marriage. Divorce is for attorneys to take our hard earned money and waste it.
5. If you should have an attorney contact me, then I guess I'll have to go get one myself. I will not do so until then, I'm invested in working on this marriage.

Just some samples of things I would say firmly but sincerely. I have always communicated my desire to reconcile the marriage - even when I had doubts.

I'm actually not clingy at all. I was very much so in the beginning. Now I don't feel I "need" her anymore. My want for her has significantly deminished as well. I try not to be judgemental but she knows how to push my buttons. And the fact she lies to me when we both know the truth just somehow gets to me. Well it was 5 days since I last talked to her and I survived pretty well. I guess I'll just do the same and see what happens next. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I suggest that you don't be be in such a rush to give out forgiveness. She'll likely lose some respect for you if you show willingness to forgive so easily just to have her back.

Some time ago, the issue of forgiveness came up between my and my FWW. She told me that she assumed that I'd forgiven her when on D-Day I decided to try to work things out rather than ask her to leave. I replied that wasn't the case at all. Forgiveness for something like this is a *process*, not a one-time thing.

For me, I don't think I'll be able to completely forgive my FWW until she shows me that she really "gets" the damage she caused by her A. The good news is that I think we're almost there.

Just "be still," JR.

Look, Jayban advises "detachment," and I say "be still." It's the same concept. Stop letting what your WW says/does hurt you so much. That's hard! We know that, but you've got to do it. The anti-depressants will help, and you might endulge yourself with some individual counseling with an experienced, pro-marriage counselor to act as a sounding board.

In one sense, you know, it's not her...it's the "alien" we talk about here on MB quite often. The alien isn't capable of love, nor can the alien accept love. You need to know those things on a very deep level or you're setting yourself up for a lot of angst and depression.

Pardner, if you've done all you can do in the areas of exposure and confrontation, then that's ALL you can do. The ball is in her court, as they say. You're in a waiting mode, hoping Plan A will work but readying yourself for Plan B if it doesn't.

You can't push your WW out of her apathy. She must come out of this at her own pace and trying to accelerate that timing is counterproductive. You can very easily prevent the last thing you want to happen if your impatience frustration get the best of you.

JR, see your attorney when you find the one you want. Protect yourself legally and financially. Then use your time making yourself "all that you can be." You can be reading and doing Plan A things whenever you get the opportunity.

Hang in there, JR. "Be still," okay?

Ok <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Way to go, JR.


BTW, I see where I made an atrocious misstatement in my last post but you apparently saw through the mistake and ignored it.

I said, "You can very easily prevent the last thing you want to happen if your impatience frustration get the best of you."

It should have read, "You can very easily bring on the last thing you want to happen if your impatience and frustration get the best of you."

My apologies. Sometimes cutting, pasting, and revising one's own text in haste gets one all messed up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LH

I had to read it a couple times but I knew what you meant. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

ManInMotion,

excellent reply!!!

jrlex, you are not nearly at a point where you can forgive your WW. You are simply confusing terms, IMHO.

Your WW has not even admitted to any wrongdoing, let alone, any remorse or repentance. You are, IMO, trying rather to find a way to desperately excuse your WW in order to disuadge your own pain.

This will not work! There is no shortcut to avoid the pain of infedelity. You, must unfortunately, endure all of it to process the hurt.

Until your WW sees and understands your pain, there cannot be forgiveness. Hopefully she will come to that conclusion on her own, but, if not, your ablilty to forgive is non existent till that happens.

If you excuse rather than forgive, it sends her a message that what she has done is no big deal. She will feel the same way. Is that what you want?

And, MIM is right, forgiveness for something like this is a process. Something you will have to process daily for a very long time. I am 4 and 1/2 years away from my DDay, and I am compelled to forgive my W daily, before my feet hit the floor in the morning. It's just the way it is, but, with the help of God, it is my choice, daily!

Hang in ther jr, this is a learning process that takes a long time.

All Blessings,
Jerry

I still think she filed for divorce already. I've got this nagging feeling. Time will tell...

JR, no one on MB can possibly divine whether she’s filed for divorce already or not, BUT…you can. One spouse can discern things in the other spouses’ behavior outsiders never see. It’s why MB folks often remark “if you think your spouse is cheating, (he or she) probably is.”

That same concept applies here. If you have the hunch she’s already filed, or about to, I’d accept it as your subconscious trying to prod you into action. I’ve said before if she’s threatened divorce, believe her!

If you have this feeling, you need to get to an attorney to find out what you can do to protect yourself. If your contacts haven’t found you a lawyer by…say, close of business today…I’d grab the phone book and start looking for one in the yellow pages. Interview the ones that look good, select one who has pit bull instincts, and put your legal and financial vulnerabilities to rest. Then you can set it aside and pay attention to other things that are happening now or will happen in the future.

If you want to know if she has filed or not, simply call the District Court Clerk in your county. Divorce proceedings are public record. As soon as a petition for divorce is filed, it's in the records before you are even served.

Yup, that's true, and one can check online in many jurisdictions these days. However, in both of those two options, the information you get is correct only as of the moment of the database’s last update. It’s aggravatingly necessary to get regular, and frequent, updates whereas attorneys will notify each other in real time when a petition is filed. I’d rather let my attorney…my employee…do that little job for me.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I decided to take the day off from work today and I'm glad I did. I heard the garage door open then close. I went out the front door to see my WW leaving as she looked right at me. Low and behold who was in the passenger seat? Why yes, the OM! It took every ounce of strength not to go out there and do something stupid. I was shaking after they left. The OM would not even look at me. And my WW has let it be known she isn't speaking to me.

I did make it a point to change the garage code and the locks on the house today. And I am also taking the liberty of emptying most of my belongings from the house so if/when they do get in there will be little to take. I feel it's justifiable seeing as every time I come home something else is missing.

My mother was able to track down a really good lawyer but I'm not sure if I can afford her. It's an $80 consult fee and $1500 retainer. Ouch! Supposed to be the best of the best though. I don't think I have that much to protect. After todays audacious display I'm really not sure if I want to save this marriage. I know it's an "alien" that's taken over my WW but I just don't see the old wife in there anywhere. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I really feel I deserve better than this.

I guess it's mostly because I feel so much anger right now. I wish things on her that I know aren't becoming of a Christian. I do feel bad about it and hope I don't really mean it but jeez... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Heck, change the lock on the garage door too, turn off the opener, make sure all the windows have locks on them (supplementary window locks can be purchased from Lowes, Home Depot, etc.), and make the place secure in any other way you can think of. If she says she doesn't want to be with you in the house, so be it.

Side note: do you really feel she's going to steal your personal property? I haven't heard of any case of that happening, though it may well occur in the universe of all possible events.

Pardner, I know the attorney is going to be expensive and one always wonders whether to find a bargain or not. The thing is, you get what you pay for in these matters. A bigger expense now may prove cheap in the long run. Bear that in mind, okay?

Now, that having been said, what will you want the attorney to do for you? Do you and your WW have that much property to divide, should push come to shove? It may be the third (or 16th) best in town would serve quite well in securing you legally. If you find out different, guess what? You can change attorneys.

I don't know your financial situation and I don't have a clue what your community property situation is...heck, I don't know even what state you live in, so it's impossible to suggest you stay with the cream of attorneys or not. It'll have to be your decision. Just make that decision a calm, deliberate one, okay?

Pardner, if you didn't resent what your WW is doing to you, you'd be an alien yourself. Hang in there and stay cool, okay?

Yeah, I feel a little more at peace now. I hate this constant wavering of emotions. One minute I think I'm through, the next I'm still wanting to save my marriage. This sucks.

I'm starting to doubt she's filed yet as I know she cannot afford it. I'm not worried financially as we have very few bills but there are things we have in each others names we need to get situated. She emailed me with information on bills she wanted me to have changed as well as a payment schedule. She also said she's giving me all the checks and that the account would be in my hands and she would be sending me payments to take care of some things for her. I am kind of excited to finally take on responsibility I should have long ago.

As for property, she already got most of what I would have liked to have kept but it's not that big of a deal. Things can be replaced. We got a contract on the house and hopefully it will pull through and we will have one less thing to deal with.

I finally told my family the bulk of what I know of the affair. Needless to say they are shocked and hurt.

I still want to try to save my marriage if given the opportunity so I guess I just sit and wait for her to contact me. I feel so helpless though. Should I break off trying to contact her at all and wait for her to come to me? I hope what I've heard the last week is truly "fog" talk. So far everyone has been dead on so I feel I have to believe.