Yes, I believe the recovery is going to be near impossible just with the kind of person she is with owning up to faults and criticisms.

Interesting.

Vince, you've been getting a lot of affirmation of your feelings.

Given your statement in the above quotation, what do you think Jesus is telling you?

God bless.

Forever- I'm not sure what you mean?

That I have my answer? That I know what to do? I don't feel positive I do, but am pretty sure where this (my sitch) is headed and I am ready to accept whatever God has in store for me.

Wow!

My FBH wondered aloud to me if he was pathetic...I actually told him (and this is absolutely true) that I have tons more respect for him for not just doing a cut and run when he had every right to. I respect him more in ways that I never did, for being a man who would fight to keep his family together.

That being said, it is kind of distressing to hear that so many of you would not stay if it were not for children. Most of them, if not all, seem to be coming from the male perspective I believe.

I do know there are plenty of women on this board, some without kids even, who would take their WH's back in a flash if they were willing.

So I'm thinking, men and women look at this quite differently...and what does it say to a FWS if she feels she's only being taken back for the sake of the children. Certainly that's a noble reason...but is it enough? How does a FWW feel knowing that, I wonder...

I may be speaking out of turn, but I believe my H feels he should still honor his "for better or worse" committments regardless of the mistakes I made. And by doing so, he literally saved me from totally screwing up my life.

This topic really piqued my interested obviously...

A few things...

1. Your As were EAs. I think that for the most part these are easier for a BH to take than PAs.

2. Your commitment to the recovery of your M, i.e. the drive to come out of YOUR comfort zone and DO the things needs to rebuild the relationship probably has a lot of influence over how your BH feels about your decision to stay.

In my case, I have not sensed anything that suggests that my FWW respects me any more for asking her to stay rather than requesting she leaves. In fact, at times I get the feeling that she actually lost a little respect for me for not kicking her out when she thinks I really should have. And I have to deal with that *and* the knowledge that she scr*wed with the OM for a year in our home and in our bed.

I want to be sensitive to you on this as I feel it is an important question. I honestly believe the answer for me would be "who cares?"
I think the WS has made their bed and that they would have their feelings hurt knowing that without children a BS would leave is just too bad.



I commend your H... and what he has done for you. But really that is his call and he couldn't be faulted for sending you packing. If you did it again and again should he still forgive you and take you back regardless of the mistakes you made? I would say "no" and that shows me that each situation must be judged on its entire set of circumstances, including children. There is a lot more here to look at than the broken vows.

Just my opinion.

MTAAZ,

hmmm, so if your A is a 10 year LTA PA and your H is your second choice because exposure ran the married OM off - what would you expect from your BH?

What's the limit here?

What's the actual requirement on the BH?

Is it about what's best for the adulterer (even putting this aside when it comes from the adulterer)?

Where and when does the good of the BS figure?

If the BH cannot actually continue after assessing the situation, is he somehow less of a man? This certainly seems to be the FWW's assessment in your post.


ed: "...and what does it say to a FWS if she feels she's only being taken back for the sake of the children. Certainly that's a noble reason...but is it enough? How does a FWW feel knowing that, I wonder..."

OK, equivalent question: What does it say to a BH when the mother of their innocent children is willing to cause them such immense and permanent harm for the sake of her ENs, her selfish needs, her entitlement, her ignoble sordid affair? How does a BH feel knowing what this so-called mother is capable of...

Perhaps she should have showed a little mercy and eaten her young first.

I am by no means a perfect man, but I do believe in the vows I took under God. My WW has broken the vows in the most explosive way. I feel like she does not deserve me, even though I said 'for better or worse'. Why should I have to live up to my end of the 'bargain' if she didn't hers?

I am feeling currently that I would be sacrificing my self-respect and pride if I were allow her back into my life. I supported her financially for years, even before our marriage; she has this job for two months and she cheats on me w/ a co-worker? No way.

I just don't see this ending well for me. I am am damned if I do (reconcile) and damned if I don't (divorce). Both paths are going to be arduous at best.

Why does life even have situations like this? No easy way out....

I am a BH. I am 31. Married over 10 years. We have a 3 year old son.

I am trying to save my M because I promised my W, our families, and God that I would never abandon her even during the worst of times. This is the worst of times. If you truly study the Basic Concepts, get the SAA book, read the forums, and study and live Plan A. Then you will become a lighthouse with confidence that can't be shaken. Yesterday my wife gave me every disgusting piece of dialogue out of the WW handbook. She tried to destroy my character and integrity. When that didn't work she came back crying and begging me to let her go so she could be with OM who is her fate as she puts it. When that didn't work she gave up. All I am doing is exposing and putting pressure on the A. It is killing her. I am getting stronger. When you stand up and stop letting your emotions dictate your life you will feel a hole lot better. Your emotions will destroy you. Knowledge and understanding will empower you. Study and make yourself better. It will still hurt, but it won't knock you down anymore.

I sympathize with all BS's. I know exactly how the men are feeling. For 2 months I was a wreck and felt the same way and made the same comments. Not anymore. My WW is threatning the Big D. I told her to do what she had to do, but from the day she filed we still had a year to turn it around and I wasn't going anywhere. I told her I was here for her if she needs help getting over OM. I told her I would continue to do what I had to do to give our M the best chance for reconcilation. She thinks that I am absolutley CRAZY! That's OK. She is actually working through the process that a WS's mind goes through. In a sick way her behavior is encouraging. If she didn't care I would know it was over. Right now she can't seem to move on without me saying it's OK. I will never do that.

IMO, hang in there long enough to put together a solid Plan A. That will prepare you for whatever happens next, regardless of what that is.

Good Luck

Mom,

You have some great points here however I am not catching that any male here has proposed a simple cut and run. All have worked very hard to bring their WS back to the table and try to build a new marriage. In a few of the cases here including mine the WW had the affair and then did the cut and run themselves. I think the fundamental question here is when is enough, enough. In cold terms what is the cost benefit analysis of a long term, painfully emotional struggle with no guarantee of lasting success. The men here are not making knee jerk gender biased responses but are offering their thoughts based on their hard learned experience.

Regarding how females think I can clearly remember conversations with my W from years past. We would be watching a movie or television show that was highlighting a husband’s infidelity and she would always turn to me and say, “If you ever did that to me I would…..”. Fill in your own blanks but it always involved her throwing me out immediately and frequently involved the clinical use of rusted kitchen knives. That always made me feel bad and I never said anything about it. Why was it always if I went wayward?

Oh well, just my thought.

My wife always told me she would kill me before she divorced me. I choose not to remind her of that at this point in time. I like being alive.

Churchill said it well:

"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed."

Yup. This is the fundamental position the WS puts every BS in. All the sex, lies, betrayal, $LB deposits, ENs and so on eventually boil down to a Hobson's choice.

What the ****** do I do, now I can never trust her completely ever again.

I recommend you examine those "ever again" words.

You are young and you have fewer ties than a 20-year M with children and many financial obligations. Ever again looks a lot different from your end of the tunnel than it does from mine.

IMO, cut your losses. You will thrive. You will find honest trustworthy love with someone else.


You should still have been in your honeymoon period, for Pete's sake.


with prayers,

It's wise to take a hard-headed look at the character of your partner before she began her affair. If the addict goes away, is the person who replaces her of a high enough caliber for recovery?

The person needs to be patient, humble, compassionate, and courageous. She needs to have character enough to examine herself and deal with the faults that led her to cheat. She has to be serious about making amends for what she's done.

We're not talking about what the hurt partner needs to do. That's another issue.

Put your anger towards the person you're dealing with now away and remember the person from before. Was she honorable? Honorable enough to put her own wishes and needs aside and make amends? Would she be serious about it? Is she engaging enough to get her hands dirty and deal with the confrontations sure to arise as you try to put your life back together?

If not then get rid of her.

GC

I figure that bailing out on my M won't take away the pain that my WW caused. It seems my only choice is to work things out.

Vince and jrlex,

The decision to stay or go is entirely up to the BS in every case. Only you can decide if you want to wait for the A to die and try to rebuild the trust.

Obviously, you do not want the old marriage back. The secret is to decide if there can be a new and better one built to replace it.

And you do NOT want your WW in any way, shape or form. But you likely DO want your WIFE back. Remember that the WS is not the S you fell in love with.

The real difficulty is that it is all so unfair. While the WS pursues an A, we are the ones that have to do all of the work while getting only more grief and [email]cr@p[/email] in return.

Add to that the fact that according to the words of Jesus Himself, adultery IS viable grounds for divorce and it makes it even harder to continue.

Bottom line...only you can decide when it is enough and call it over.

BC,

I'm quite impressed with your rapid understanding of the basic concepts and workings of Plan A. Keep hanging tuff. Regardless of the outcome, you WILL be a better person when all is said and done.

Mark

Vince, I'm going to preface this by saying that you can divorce your wife if that is what you choose to do. God granted that right to you because He knows just how serious adultery is and how devastating it is to a marriage.

Having said that, I keep hearing lot of mixed emotions from you and confused thoughts. That is normal and is part of the reaction to infidelity. However, you really need to be very careful about using your "feelings" to justify your actions. Let's look a little at what you just wrote, for example.

I am by no means a perfect man

The only perfect man was Jesus. Welcome to the "rest of us."


but I do believe in the vows I took under God.

Okay, I assume that also held true when you chose to get married and took those vows to God and to your wife.


My WW has broken the vows in the most explosive way.

No question about it. For all BS's who have lived through this you will get a very similar affirmation.


I feel like she does not deserve me, even though I said 'for better or worse'.

My wife told me while we were in recovery that she didn't think she deserved me. I told her she did. I told her she did because God knew what she was going to need even though neither one of us did when we got married. I also told here that I deserved her for the same reason, God brought us together and partnered with us in our marriage covenant. I didn't know how God was going to use this mess, but I knew Romans 8:28 and I knew God is faithful to all His promises to His children who submit their lives to Him in humble obedience. And I can tell that it has been an incredible learning and growing experience for both of us. I no longer "take God for granted." There IS an enemy out there who is prowling around seeking whom he can devour. I no longer take the "armor of God" for granted.


Why should I have to live up to my end of the 'bargain' if she didn't hers?

That depends entirely on you. Assuming your wife repents of her adultery, you must forgive her. But you do not have to remain married to her if that is your choice. Just remember that while God grants the Faithful Spouse the "right" to a divorce, God still hates all divorce.


I am feeling currently that I would be sacrificing my self-respect and pride if I were allow her back into my life.

A normal feeling, but consider the self-respect and pride you might feel following a successful recovery. I can only speak for myself on this one, but I feel a lot more self-respect and pride in having done the "very hard to do" think of forgiveness and recovery. Today, my "reward" is a much stronger marriage and stronger love between us.


I just don't see this ending well for me. I am am damned if I do (reconcile) and damned if I don't (divorce).

Only if your wife remains unrepentant. Remember, the "object" is first a relationship with God and second a relationship with each other, both founded and grounded in forgiveness and love.


Both paths are going to be arduous at best.

No one said that life was going to be easy. Either course will take work, commitment, steadfastness, and patience. But few things of value are attained for free. Many times the costlier the payment, the more valuable the prize.


Why does life even have situations like this? No easy way out....

(((((vincestrong))))) It's called sin and a fallen world.


God bless.

Its terrible to think that there are people all over the world going through this everyday. I wouldn't wish what I am going through upon my WORST enemy.

I just wish there was a way to make it all go away, but there isn't. Life isn't easy, I know it, believe me, even at only 30, I've already had a pretty good run of bad luck.

Thanks for the great post FH.

Vince,

I understand what you are going through. Here are a couple things to think about.

First, many psychologists and counselors look at infidelity as an aberrant behavior; a temporary expression of some issue within the wayward spouse. You can see this in Dr. Harley’s approach, whose long previous experience in running drug rehab clinics helped him understand that the solution to infidelity required a long term “treatment” in much the same way one would treat a drug addict or alcoholic – find and treat the cause. Those causes can vary. Some infidelity may be the result of one spouse not meeting the other’s emotional needs, a problem, which on the face of it, seems to have a fairly easy solution. But there are other causes as well. Those causes include such issues as sexual addictions, poor self-esteem, depression, and even schizophrenia. The solutions to those problems are more complex and the chance of marital recovery is often quite slim.

Someone mentioned above that one thing that prevents betrayed spouses from walking away is fear of the unknown. This is justified. You never suspected that your wife was capable of cheating on you, but she did. How do you know the next woman you find yourself attracted to won’t do the same?

Prior to my wife’s affair, a friend once asked me what I would do if I discovered my wife was cheating on me. I told him I would take my son and move to another state. When I actually did discover my wife’s affair, my reaction was quite different. I was hurt beyond anything I had ever experienced before, but I knew that the best thing for everyone involved would be for us to “fix” the marriage. It made sense because we once loved each other very much, as much as any couple. We had a son who deserved to grow up in a home with both loving parents. We were well on our way to a firm financial footing and a secure future. So I worked to try to save the marriage.

I couldn’t do it, and I am now waiting for a divorce decree. The tragic fall of two people once very much in love with each other to divorce and bitter feelings seemed inexorable – as though fate was determined to steer us there no matter what I tried. But that doesn’t mean I didn’t come away with something positive. I learned a lot about what it takes to make a great marriage. And I expect that one day I will marry again, because when it was good, it was very good.

The fact that you don’t have children makes it so much easier for you to walk away, and you are fully justified in doing so. But maybe it might be worthwhile to put some effort into reconciling, if for no other reason than that the process itself can make you a better partner for the next person should reconciliation fail. You could, of course, walk away and still get counseling. But it would never have the impact on you that trying to save your marriage would bring to the picture.

Great thoughts Hiker- Much appreciated!

Believe me when I say that I loved my wife so much it hurt, but now I don't know if the damage is just to severe to salvage. We have no kids and if she could do this after 5 years of living together and 14 months after marriage, what kind of person is she really and the chances of this happening again are great most likely.

Lets say I try to reconcile, or keep the door open, it seems like the chances of us getting back together are maybe 10% and the chances of saving the marriage after that are about 50/50. And not because of me. I would be willing to do whatever it takes to ensure a happy marriage, I'm just not sure I should keep putting my hand on the hot stove and getting burned. At some point you need to stop hurting yourself, by taking that piece out of your life.

I'm still really hurt and confused. Cried myself to sleep and awake this morning. Off to a great start! I just can't believe she is capable of all this. She was such a wonderful, special person with undenying qualities of a mother. I looked forward to sharing those days with her. Now? I would have to look forward to years of recovery and hurt, instead of kids and new experiences with the woman I swore my heart and life to under God.

Gob Bless everyone who is hurting today with me-
VS