Update;<P>W has broken it off with BF, a while back from what I can tell. See is not seeing anyone specifically she says. I think she is dating or maybe just ding "one-niters", not sure. SIL set her up; THANKS! She is having financial difficulty, as am I. We are still getting divorced (2/14/2000), joint custody of kids, I have them 3 days a week now. They are doing extremely well! We are both proud of this. We chat occassionally, no uglies.<P>We are divorcing with no atty., and have written "Friend of the court" (MI dept that takes care of the kid issues) out of it. We are cooperating to work out those details. So far very successfully. However, due to a buerecratic error, they have gotten themselves involved. We needed to take strategy together yesterday morning. I was completely frank with her in a kind way. A conversation about exsposing our finances without arguing. AMAZING! That turned into convo about our situations. <P>I am dating a woman and have told her so, I also told her that I will not have sex til we are divorced and that, at this point, I haven't been physical at all. Not even a kiss. She indicated that she has discovered that no man wants a ready made family and that she'll either end up a bitter old woman or with someone with kids. Problem is, she has always envisioned starting over with a single guy, who has money and meets her needs and accepts our kids. Ahh, the perfect life. I think I see the glimmering armour now! .<P>She also stated that sometimes when she starts to wallow and blame me, she then remembers that I am probably having a time of it too. This is a huge departure on 2 fronts. First she has never admitted or even shown signs openly that "she goes into herself", also that she acknowledged someone elses feelings... EVER. I am not just talking since the problems began, I mean ever. That was something that always hurt me. That she couldn't open up to me. <P>I've gotta tell you, I have done alot of work on me. I enjoy the time with my new "friend", but there probably isn't anything there. I am sincerely ready to move on. D has gone well and I hate to risk losing kids or changing terms if she had to file (if I dropped it). My W is having a discussion with my mom (they had become good friends before) about X-mas this year, this morning. She didn't even bring this up to me. My mom is very intuitive and senses an attempt at some kind of reconcilliation. I am not sure I see that. <P>After our 45 minute convo yesterday, we held and kissed several times and offered "have great days" to each other. This kind of affection has occurred before, but I wonder if it's a mercy/guilt thing on her part. That she does want to move on, and just want it to be amicable. Me too now, but if there is a chance to save this, I would be patient and give it a go. I want to let go if that hope because it takes me to places I don't want to go. I have always been pro-active in these situations and it hasn't worked, she has offerred nothing in the way of EVER wanting to work on marriage, though she has always been "signal" oriented.<P>Questions: <P>Let it ride and change nothing, just continue to treat her with kindness at an arms length?<P>Let her make the next move, no matter how long it takes?<P>Ask her out?<P>Drop GF?<P>Drop D?<P>Let her continue to grow. Both of us ontinue to move on?<P>Eric32<P>

Eric,<BR>That tough, Like you said it appears there are some signs that she may be coming around, but perhaps it is her showing acceptance of her situation ( which in itself may also be reality ) I don't know, The fact that you two are still holding each other and kissing is amazing. I wish I could only do half of what you are with my W. <P>Maybe let it ride for awhile and create a little more contact with her. You still have a while until it is final. Keep being loving and honest with her. Do you know what her emotional needs are ??? Now would be a good time to start meeting those needs.<P>Maybe do some family outings with her, That would sort of be a date but no pressure for her. Then if those go well ask her on a date alone. As for the woman you are seeing, That is your call. If you feel that you a stringing her along you should tell her. Maybe break it off until this is final. <P>Good luck and be strong.<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Thanks Rutger,<P>I don't she knows yet what her needs are. I am/have been preparing myself for being disapointed by signs. It's helped me feel true forgiveness for her. If my actions don't produce the reactions I want, I used to bluster and show my true colors, that I was trying to manipulate the situation. I gotten good at being sincere about my kindness. We'll let that ride, it works all the way around my life.<P>Outings are out, the child shrink said it would be alot better on the kids not to see us doing that stuff together at this point. Confusion. That seems to work well for them.<P>The woman I am seeing understands where I am and is comfortable with it. However, if things with W and I progress, I will drop it. I don't want to cause more hurt from this situation. Maybe your right about breaking it off till we're final.<P>Eric32

Hi Eric,<BR>Here's what I would do (I'm facing almost the same questions):<P>Let it ride, but meet her level of "friendliness" if that is comfortable for you. I think we had an earlier conversation about finding acceptance/comfort level.<P>Let her make the next move - again follow her lead if you feel comfortable, if not let her know honestly and openly.<P>I would not ask her out at this point. She seems to be "fishing" for this somewhat with her self pitying remarks about ending up alone and bitter. When my H went this route I simply confronted him with "I'm glad you feel comfortable sharing your feelings with me"...and that opened up more conversation. Before I would have tried to talk him out of his depression and self pity.<P>Drop GF? I agree with your above post.<P>Drop D? No - not at this point....<P>Let her continue to grow? Yes! Do not be too quick to jump back in and save her from her feelings. <P>E, You seem to really love your W, and your kindness and sincerity show this best to her - and make you feel good about yourself in the process. You sound like you have done some self-evaluation and like yourself better as well. congratulations.<P>Hang in there,<BR>Starpony

Questions: <P>IMHO:<P>Let it ride and change nothing, just continue to treat her with kindness at an arms length? Yes. Its either going to go one way or the other anyway. SO give it the time it needs.<P>Let her make the next move, no matter how long it takes? Yes, but remember to let her.<P>Ask her out? As time goes on,Yes.<P>Drop GF? Yes. Until the marriage is gone and then an appropriate waiting period, this is tantamount to using her. For her (GF) sake, let her go.<P>Drop D? No, hang on to it until you are certain that your marriage is going to be rock solid.<P>Let her continue to grow. Both of us ontinue to move on? This will supply its' own answer as time moves on.FInish the marriage first.<P>