PLEASE STOP MAKING RUDE AND ARGUMENTATIVE POSTS!!

this is to EVERYONE!

this is not the purpose of marriage builders.

share your opinion and beliefs and your understanding of the Harley's concepts WITHOUT making judgements about those of others.

Then let the person make thier own choice.

all of this arguing is not helpful and is in fact hurtful.

there is a HUGE difference between sharing your thoughts, opinions, and the facts as you understand them and BULLYING and ARGUING WITH anyone who has view different from yours.


I would like to suggest that anyone who reads a post by someone being rude and argumentative IGNORE THEM COMPLETELY! Just act as though they didn't post at all and move on.

hopefully they will get the message and consider making changes in THEMSELVES and the way they choose to interact with people on this site so that they can be HELPFUL.

[color:"blue"] This site is supposed to be a SUPPORT to those facing the pain of an affair. It is NOT supposed to be a place that causes MORE PAIN [/color]

[color:"red"]on monday, i went to another affair site and i posted a question to the author support books for affairs.

she posted back to me and i am so sad to say this.....

she said that she is friends with the author of this site and that i MAY find support there

BUT

she said....... [color:"blue"] I HESITATE TO REFER PEOPLE TO THAT SITE BECAUSE MANY TIMES THEY GET HEAT INSTEAD OF A GUIDING LIGHT[/color] [color:"red"]


isn't that so very sad

because it's the truth

eav,

So true.

Often it is assumed that I have not read MB materials because I do not follow things "to the letter".

I have read MB, and much, much, much, much more. My personal library is extensive, and there is quite a bit of literature out there to help marriages.

The problem seems to be that there is a general lack of respect when certain posters' advice is not followed to the letter, or they feel snubbed by not being the focus of a thread.

Also, I've noticed an odd thing. It seems like some WS can come and they get beat up on the very first post, and others come and they are welcomed with open arms. I haven't quite figured it out. I've looked at the posts to see what the differences might be, but I haven't seen a real difference (maybe one or two with an attitude, but isn't that what the site is about???). I guess I don't get that.

There seems to be no room on some threads for people to be themselves, to work MB into their lives and make it work for them. Instead, it seems like the expectation on many threads is that people need to immediately change who they are - and that's a tall order for people in crisis.

I see the rudeness and squabbling go on and it just gets out of hand. On one thread, any number of times, people post things like "let it go, let's move on, it's over, we need to focus on what to do next" and the like, and yet the squabbling continues ad infinitum.

In the middle, I post to the thread owner as best I can. I hope she can garner some support there.


As a result of the problems, I considered yesterday and today to stop posting altogether. This may be my last post, in fact, because the stress of the fighting on the thread in question causes ME to be upset. I can only imagine the stress in the BS's life because of the thread - and she goes there for "support".......

Shame on us.

SB

SB
Please don't stop posting... I would love to have your help and guidence.

Still

I can't figure out what happened on Sis' thread.

I don't know how long you've been here SB but I spent months and months on MBers through MY PLAN A and PLAN B and there there were lots of differing opinions on my LENGTHY THREADS...PLURAL..but, in my experience it didn't have the reaction of Sis' thread...

I'm not sure what I'm going to do...

To be honest, I was surely thinking about not even reading Sis' thread any longer...it's really disturbing to me as well..

I'm personally feeling like that it's considered A BAD THING that I encourage MBer's concepts on THE MARRIAGEBUILDER's FORUM... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

And I don't feel like I need to DEFEND doing that..that seems illogical to me..

I can do fine, myself, without MBers at this point in my life..but feel like MAYBE I can be helpful to others here...

But I don't want to get SLAMMED for promoting these concepts...

WEIRD...

What do you think?

I'm open to your opinions and criticism...

AND SB..believe me..I am WELL-READ about other VIEWPOINTS with also a HUGE LIBRARY..but I still consider this APPROACH most helpful for FIGHTING INFIDELITY and seldom share all the other knowledge that I have...

Yes, I totally agree I have had that done to me, also. We BS are hurt, confused try to reach out, some of us have NO-ONE to talk to and come here for some kind of comfort and help only to be talked to rudely. I think these people that are doing this are bitter. What else could it be?

Well, it's funny you ask that. When i first came here I got whacked over the head by some well meaning people... some real 2 x 4's. So, what else could it be... misperception comes to mind.
Mimi is a very kind poster and I have even seen her style questioned of late. Sometimes skins are too thin around here and good advice is being shut out because of misperceptions.
I can tell you first hand that had I responded the way some others do here when I first arrived, I would have missed out on some great advice from people I respect a lot. Did their words sting at first... yep... but did they help.. more than I can say.
Take a look at Lostsheeps thread. Many would say that I was harsh on her at first... but she has thanked me for my help... I have spent my valuable time to post to someone that I feel I can reach. How I choose to do that is really my call. Sometimes a 2 x 4 works and sometimes it doesn't. McBecca is another example. Her original thread I was run off by people that thought my opinion had no merit. But today... she is thanking me for trying to understand her.
Eav... it is all about perceptions.... I actually thought your last post to McB was harsh... but you are trying to reach her and do some good for her. There are people here that have a gift of calm and they reach some people but appear too "philosophical" to others.
Insults are uncalled for... but disagreement over how to do things is healthy. Perceptions are very important too.

I know that when I posted for the first time, I got the usual greeting, the "Move this to GQII because of more traffic" post and one I just ignored because I felt the poster was venting his own hurt and it did me no good to respond to it.

As for defending MB concepts...I haven't been reading Sis's thread, because when threads get that long and have that much traffic, I don't have much to contribute that isn't being said by those that have been here a lot longer and have a better understanding than I have. I do have a firm belief that to buy into MB principles at all, you must buy the whole package, since each concept beyond the Love Bank is built on what precedes it. If you discount any single idea, I don't think the rest holds up to logical scrutiny.

Of course, now I guess I need to go read what is going on on Sis's thread so I have a clue as to what is actually going on. But as for me, I'll try hard to not show disrespect for anyone. I even try to pad my 2x4s before waving them about.

Mark

I think what happened on LilSis' thread is very simple.

It came to a point where some posters wanted her to do exactly what they wanted her to do, and listen only to them.

She didn't do that.

She is doing what she knows is going to work for her, in her life, with her WH.

Because of the fact that we attribute to others our own reasoning, we believe that they think/act/feel like we do.

This is a fallacy.

But the posters are convinced that what worked for them, in their situations, will certainly work for her, and that she MUST do it the way they did it.

Only,,,,,,,,everybody did it a little differently.
Everybody felt a little differently.
Everybody didn't recover their marriages via MB exclusively.
Everybody's experiences were somewhat the same, but a lot different - enough different that it makes the difference.

But the posters cling dogmatically to their way, because they KNOW it worked for them.

Because they desperately care about LilSis, and want her marriage to be recovered.

And they worry that ANY misstep, any variance from the way THEY believe it SHOULD be done will result in failure.

And they don't want failure for LilSis.

It all comes from the heart. So passions run high. And feelings get hurt, because everyone wants to be the person who helped LilSis, who gave good advice, who was there when they were needed.

What happened on her thread seems simple - everyone wanted to "help", but wanted it their own way. They dug in their heels, and stopped listening. They began defending why THEY were RIGHT - and stopped focusing on how to help.

In the end, LilSis will be the one who is there. She is the only one who will make the decisions, and all we can do is tell her what we think we would/could/should do. From there, she's on her own. To do what her judgement and her gut and her understanding of WH/H and her love and her life with him tells her is the right thing to do.

I personally, trust her. She came in here and has taken on a lot of changes, a lot of advice. She is a person who takes criticism well, considers it carefully, and puts it to use when it is meaningful and valuable and applicable to her life.

When she says she is fragile today, I believe that. But I also believe that underneath that fragility is a rock of strength that will bring WH back to her - because he will not be able to resist that strength.

And I would love it if the posters would regain their initial focus of helping her with strength, love, ideas, support, and prayer.

Because it is the right thing to do, and because she has asked for us to do that.

And we can do that, and more, and still do it with respect for her and each other.

At least, I thought we could.
SB

Mark,

I wanted to check on your sitch just to find out where you were coming from. I saw a few great replies to you from Mr. W and then his suggestion for you to move to GQII. Your welcome from my perspective was wonderful. Again... is this just a matter of perspective.

MEDC

SB... Just a note that I very much agree with your post. I have not seen you here very frequently... and as I told someone else today... I may not always agree with you... but you always give me something to think about. You are an asset to these boards.

MEDC

i agree that the beginning of my post to McB was different than those i usually post.

some of my statements were specifically trying to help her to consider her comments regarding her CHILDREN

she has asked what is best for the children in her situation

i pointed out that she had 3 CHILDREN to consider, not just one

however, i know that what i wrote about her children was more "blunt" than i usually am

i did not percieve my post to be rude or argumentative and i would hope that others who read the statements she made would be equally as direct

if others see it differently, please let me know.

i did, however, edit a few words of the post. so thanks for pointing out how you percieved it MEDC

i would hope everyone would be willing to do the same


she came to a "save your marraige site" and is asking what she should do....or IF she should even do anything to save her marraige

so far i'm afraid, she is only seeing reasons to support her belief that it is time to give up and D
on her thread, i feel we are ALL working TOGETHER to try to help her see through the fog

if her thinking doesn't change about saving her marraige, i will stop posting to her because to keep trying to change her thinking if she states that's not what she has come here for IS argumentative and RUDE...in my opinion

I don't see Sis this way. She speaks of herself as being perfectionistic.



I also missed this. I haven't perceived this at all. What would be the point of this?

We are all clearly AMATEURS here..and not coming here as PROFESSIONAL counselors but as a SUPPORT GROUP..sharing our experiences..that's what I've been trying to do...

I have recommended until BLUE IN THE FACE..that she consult with Steve.



I don't see it this way. That seems to be a negativistic view of folks caring about her and trying to help.



To me this is a GIVEN. When I'm posting, I'm ASSUMING that she knows to pick and choose from our opinions. I'm a passionate person when caring and will FEEL STRONGLY about MY OPINION but that does not mean that ANYONE HAS TO AGREE WITH ME. I am stating MY TRUTH..MY OPINION..to another grownup who is responsible for taking care of themself and is COMPETENT to pick and choose. I TRULY RESPECT SIS' ability to take care of herself.

I'm protective of Eav (my soulmate)..like some folks tend to be protective of Sis. I find myself holding back sometimes and say to myself..I KNOW THAT EAV CAN SPEAK FOR HERSELF..and in speaking for herself, WOW has she GROWN..grown to the point of STARTING THIS THREAD...



Yes. I have been trying to encourage Sis to believe in her STRENGTH..to do these PLANS because I vehemently BELIEVE in MBers..and if I did not care, would not encourage her to use this approach...

MEDC,

I had to go back and read it for myself, but I did get a pretty good welcome and some good advice right away. I'm actually referring to the one post that ends my first thread in JFO.

Wasn't what I wanted or needed to hear right then...And really had no bearing on my sitch at the time.

Mark

I guess that's the point... what you consider rude... others may not. I actually find your posts telling people to tone it down a bit presumptuous (sp) and maybe even rude(assuming you have any right to tell others what to do... that is the job of the moderators)... but it is your right to say so AND it if helps some people here so it has value. I prefer to look at your intentions and I see NOTHING but good intentions on your part...so I know you are not rude. We have had people post those things in the past and have been slammed by some of the vets here. I think it is fine to say how you feel. If a poster does not want you posting to their thread, they can feel free to just ask you to leave...and staying after that would be rude.

MEDC

mimi,

I say she takes criticism well, because she listens to it, weighs it, and then makes changes based upon it. It has nothing to do with her own perfectionism except in the regard that maybe by listening to the criticism and acting on it she is trying to be "more perfect". But I have seen her try to let go of the perfectionism as well.

eav is a gentle soul.

As am I. Which is why it stresses me out so much that LilSis's thread (or anyone's, for that matter) would take such a turn.

I don't see my viewpoint as "negativistic", just stating what I see - not positive, not negative, just observations. Take them for that - just what I observed.

You mused that you couldn't figure out what happened on LilSis's thread, I gave my thoughts on it. I still think it's pretty simple. Human nature.

I think you're pretty passionate, yes, about MB, because it worked for you.

Parts of it have worked for me. Parts have not.

The length of time on the board for me? Since November 2005. I initially registered under another username, had problems with it, I think I only posted two or three times anyway. I tend to post in bursts. When I feel connected to someone. Like LilSis.

I have some varied experience, having been on both sides of this fence, having been married 31 years, having recovered this marriage twice (once before MB existed, well, at least before the Internet did!). I've been through a lot in my life. So, maybe I'm not a perfect Plan A person, but I've done that in my life. And maybe I'm not a perfect Plan B person, but I've done that, too.

Not exactly according to a script. And without the support of this board. On my own, because I had no one in my life who believed it could be done - that my marriage could be saved, or would be saved. But it was. And it has been, again. Only this time around, I had the luxury of the Internet and support here, and knowing I wasn't losing my mind and I wasn't alone.

And the luxury???? of experience.

So I do respect MB principles. And other principles. And the rights of everyone to contribute, to agree, to disagree, to be passionate, to ignore, to lurk, to do their own thing.

My thing, for now, is to escape back to lurkdom. Because the stress of the squabbling is more than this gentle soul can take.

And I've tried to figure out how to unsubscribe my username, but I can't figure it out.......

BFN,
SB

The STD comment. I see that as helpful. JMO. And that poster uses that style of posting... he did it to me too... and I found it very helpful. Others jumped on him about it... but it helped me.

Hey there all!
I have a few cents to throw in here.

Sometimes one may arrive here and what they need is a few 2x4s (me). Anyone remember how p!ss** I was @ MEDC?

Sometimes one may arrive here and what they need is a somewhat softer approach - schoolbus said something to me like "it seems like maybe you're not quite in the camp of truly wanting your M back". (to say the least)

I arrived here and I needed BOTH - and I got both.

LilSis - that thread has gotten a bit messy. But I think it is due to the passions that her story shares. At the end of the day, it is up to her to decide what to take and what to leave.

I got my feathers ruffled a bit today too w/ my ques about divorce proceedings... but I took a deep breath and realized, you all have offered insight to help me think. But at the end of the day - you don't KNOW me, and you don't KNOW my H. And my job is to hear the advice, listen to the questions, and then think and consider on my own what the best course of action - prayerful consideration.

My hope for LilSis is that she be able to discern what to keep and what to discard from the things she reads here.

I have the same hope for me. And for everyone else who enters here.

Again, it's all about perception and discernment.

All that said, I think as adults we can shelve some of the biting sarcasm that occassionally occurs.
As I said on my thread earlier today - OF COURSE there is going to be heat and emotion and passion in these discussions! We are all, to some degree, still suffering the fallout of what we have experienced. And that struggle WILL color our contribution to discussion here. It is only our nature.

But - those same expereinces that color our offerings, are also what make us able to share something of value with other posters.

So, play nice everyone, and remember, caveat emptor (prob spelled wrong!)

In gratitude,

Schoolbus, I am not a big poster...I have been on this board for 2+ years but you can see by my registration date, that I am not a big talker...just a big researcher. I always click on a thread when I see your name. You are a very wise woman and I have learned a lot from your input to others. I hope you will reconsider leaving, but if you are determined to go, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart.

There are three posters here that got through to me. They changed my whole perception of how I was seeing myself and how others were seeing my sitch.

When I first came here - JL. His gentle questioning and his not so gentle insisting I face things, was amazing.

After my lapse last year. MEDC, because you never falter in what you believe, you are tough (very tough) but you don't resort to name calling and rudeness. In the state I was in then, I thought you were too tough, but you weren't.

Then there was Evil_Mean_Nasty who usually posts under another name. He REALLY got through by stating facts, not making personal attacks.

The people who were rude and resorted to name calling, twisting of words and attacks, I tried to ignore and, in most cases, managed to ignore. Their sarcasm and rudeness didn't change my sitch one iota.

I have had some people slam me for expressing my own turmoil, at a time when I wasn't feeling so strong (just entering Plan B), and although their argument was sound, I was really looking for comfort that day.

Now, other days, I'm looking for guidance, which includes 2x4's, padded or not.

Mimi has been one of my best sources here. She has been very open and honest about her journey, and can be very direct, when need be. I think she has a great style of relating the MB principles, as they worked so well in her sitch, and she followed them very closely.

I'm not a perfectionist, so I have made my mistakes along the way. I choose to approach people, most of the time, with a gentle touch. I, too, dole out padded 2x4's, because I don't want to add insult to injury, but I do believe there are moments when people really need a SHOVE to look at themselves and break free of their own FOG.

Oh, lord, I could go on, I really just want to say that everyone here has helped me, in their own way, but I'm also pretty thick-skinned. Not everyone is.

And, schoolbus, please consider lurking around so that others (besides Sis) may benefit from your own wisdom; I know that I have.

eav, just wanted to send bunches of love your way...