Longhorn - Thank you for your advice. You believe then, that even though I was WS first, his A should be exposed?

JL - I thought about Plan B last week, but decided I wasn't ready for it ... I didn't feel my Plan A was done well enough thus far (especially considering my A) and he still doesn't know that I know about his A. I want to expose, but also feel that I need to give him the fair chance to end it on his own (as I do not think it will last). But I also don't want to give opportunity for it grow much more. I am being very nice and caring during our chats, but I've been careful not to hang on the phone for a long time (other than the one chat on Sunday evening). I haven't really called him, other than to check on something yesterday. I asked what I needed to, he answered, I said "that's great! hope you have a great rest of your day!" He stopped me from getting off the phone to ask how my day was going (something he rarely does). So we chatted a moment longer and I got off the call.

So, I figured I can't go into Plan B until I tell him that I know about the A, have done a bit more/better Plan A, and he still hasn't ended the A. Am I right?

Have a question for you from one of your quotes.



Would your A have ended on its own by now ? or was it ended after exposure to your H.

Something to think about and perhaps H has a different perspective.

Exposure IMHO may fall on deaf ears to those that know about ur A. Right now - dont you have MIL in ur corner?

Either way - I would think about the exposure list carefully.

Yes my A ended upon exposure, but I truly believe that it def would have ended on its own. Once OM asked me to leave my H for him I got a wake-up call that I didn't want out of my M.

I agree about his A falling on deaf ears ... but MIL is being incredibly supportive. Are you suggesting that I hint to her about it?

you know the situation better than anyone here. Going to give a try - I hope others post as well - use all opinions but only you know the true situation and how ur H is.

In most BS cases the full exposure gives the light of reality on fantasy. Not sure H is in fantasy - sounds like like a living he// to me.

hint to MIL - perhaps....but it could isolate you from MIL also. Blood is thicker than water. OTOH - thats the place to start.

Are you sure there is a RA? One response you are going to get is that you are lessening your guilt by projecting another issue where none exists. Be prepared.

Start with parents and IL's - be prepared for some backlash. H will be upset - no doubt about it.

By the same token - ur H may hv checked out and will not care. His perspective is that the M was over months ago during ur A.

You will have to compete with OW during Plan A

What is OTOH?

I am certain there is at least EA, no surety of PA yet (but highly suspicious). He will meet accusations with "we're just friends".

I thought about the "checked out" possibility too. But, if he doesn't care anymore why is he hiding it and why is he starting to come around being nicer to me? (Am I being too hopeful here?)

I am def thinking of her as competition! On looks alone I have her beat (except she has bigger boobs <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />). I've met her a couple of times a while back, and if I remember correctly I have her beat on brains too. She is more of a party-girl, and my focus is being a good mom. But she is def meeting ENs now, so I am stepping it up!

Maybe I'll wait a bit to decide about exposure ... see if the A dies down a little first, keep Plan A-ing (better than ever), and spend some [fun] time with him when he gets back in town.

on the other hand - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh! And I was just bragging about brains! LOL

Btw - I wasn't trying to be conceited before. I've always downplayed assets before and had low self-esteem (one factor in my poor choices). Through my IC and self-discovery, I am finally able to acknowledge things about myself (good and bad) and work on accepting them and/or changing them.

"I thought about the "checked out" possibility too. But, if he doesn't care anymore why is he hiding it and why is he starting to come around being nicer to me? (Am I being too hopeful here?"

Good point and He may be noticing the Plan A - but might be struggling with turmoil.

Never too hopeful...Your DD is worth any struggle - she needs both active parents - its simple.

You are the mother of his child - he knows this and this might be what brings him over to your side of the fence.
How to "pull" him over is the trick.

Not all situations are cookie cutter. I have come to believe by reading here that exposure is the best tool in the arsenal. There are current sitches now in which the BS' are hesitate to exposed even when the S filed D.

It is action that gives the BS control over events and also puts the first cracks in an ongoing A. I am just not sure of the tactic in your situation.

If you have time - call that radio show tmrw. I am interested in what the Harley's say about this scenario.

Me too! I will look into how/when to do that. I know my sitch isn't incredibly unique, but we (as people) are. H tends to resist authority, so to speak, so I'm being cautious not to place demands/ultimatums.

He has turned into even more of a party-animal than he was before, so I'm not sure that being an angelic mom is going to pull him over the fence. HOWEVER, being a great mom is the best thing I can do!

Well, I did it again. I took a giant step back. I confronted him on the OW. I told him that I knew about her and he asked who. Told him I wasn't going to play games, he knew who I was talking about. He changed the subject to my A and asked what was wrong with me. I told him that I screwed up and am changing! He said maybe it was his turn to screw up, maybe we should just get really separated or D, and if we were meant to be together, we would. I told him that I would still like to work on this M - I will still do whatever it takes, no matter what. He said he knew everything and asked if I wanted to base the future of our relationship on lies, so I was O&H - told him I'd looked at the phone bill and know about OW. His response - "We're just friends. I'm allowed to have friends." I told him he could have friends, but people were talking about them and I'd heard he's kissed her. He denied it. I ended the conversation. I royally screwed up this time around.

Bring on the 2x4s ...

I'm not sure you took a step backward, TFC, because the trend for your relationship has been a downward spiral for some time now. There’s not too much further down it can go, so a step backward is a minor detail.

I just skimmed through you threads to get a feel for what’s going on and I don’t have a clue what you’re doing. Frankly, I can’t tell if you have a plan to recover your marriage or not. From my point of view, you’re flailing around like a drowning swimmer and making just about as much progress as someone in the grip of an undertow.

As I understand this, you were the WW first, your husband found out, you confessed and now want to make this work. Your husband was initially supportive of the relationship but has decided to drift away and is a WH now. Without all the standard defensive “yes…but” qualifiers and modifiers, etc., is that a reasonable (AKA, “brutal”) description of what’s happened over the past few months? If it is, what’s your plan to get from where you are to where you want to be?

Look, I know you’ve read SAA, but your situation isn’t explicitly covered there. I think you would be well advised to get a personalized plan for recovery from Steve Harley. He’s an excellent counselor and getting advice specific for your situation would be invaluable. If you can’t afford that (and it would be money well spent) you and your husband desperately need a highly experienced, pro-marriage counselor from your local area. Right now, you and your husband are acting, and talking, at cross purposes and, based on your words, there’s darn little communication taking place. I don’t know how you’re going to get this marriage back together without professional couples counseling. There are just too many issues to address and you, as a couple, can’t even agree on an agenda.

You asked me the other day if I thought you should expose even if you were the WW first. I gave you a link I hope you’ve had the time to read. If not, please find time, because the answer lies in that thread. I think you need to make an effort to clear the air completely so you can revitalize your reconciliation efforts from a high moral plane. Poor, obscenely bad, decisions were made, but you can recover your integrity and begin working on the trust problems between you and your husband.

For instance, how have you disposed of the questions still unsolved from your own adultery? Have you exposed yourself to the OMW and apologized to her, for instance? Perhaps there is no OMW. I couldn’t find a reference to one in my quick skim of your story. Have you sent the OM a non-contact letter to formalize your revulsion at having nearly destroyed your marriage and how you want no contact with OM ever again? Have you shown it to your husband? This needs doing even if there is no OMW.

TFC, I don’t think you can put in a good Plan A and a Plan B without resolving your own adultery, either simultaneously with those Plans or before putting them into operation. If you try to minimize the existing problems, you’ll fail at resolving both your and your husband’s infidelity.

Okay, I think I’ll stop and let some others get a word in edgewise. Take care, TFC. You and your husband have dug yourselves a really deep hole, but you can climb out. It’ll take a lot of hard work by both of you, but it can be done. Good luck, lady.

A downward spiral indeed. And your comparison to a drowning swimmer is exactly how I feel. I need to get a grip!


This is indeed an accurate description. As for a plan, read on ...

We did 1 session w/ Steve - H wouldn't do LB & EN questionnaires and told me not to schedule another appt. This morning he said he would consider another one ... we'll talk when he gets back in town.


I believe that we have addressed all questions from my A, but if we haven't I am completely willing to answer them. OMW exposed to H, so she knows. I told him via telephone that day No Contact and H told him No Contact. No letter has been written and I understand he's move across the country - should I still write one? I am currently in process of an apology letter to OMSTBXW.

So, I called in to the MB radio show and got Dr. Harley's advice. Dr. H said that we need to begin to address the reasons for my A TOGETHER (not just me in IC). He said that because of the steps I've taken following my A, H's only reason for his A is revenge (insignificant relationship). He suggested that I call OW to confront and point-blank ask ... I don't know that I can do that (and I think she'd lie). When he gets back in town, we need to have a talk. I need to state that I am willing and wanting to be in a M with H, but not one where we are emotionally separated. If H is unwilling to work on the M, we need to get separated.

I must say that I am finally having some peace with the idea of separation. I feel like I'm going crazy and can't find any solid ground to stand on. Maybe a separation would be good for us, but I really just don't want to lose him.

Follow Dr. Harley's advice closely. I'm relieved nothing I said even looks to be at odds with what he told you. I said couples counseling, he said counseling together. Same concept.

Your husband's adultery does look, at first blush, like a revenge oriented thing. It could be an emotional detachment, being set adrift emotionally by the thought of your adultery, but in the end, it's all much the same to me.

Please tell us why you hesitate to call the OW. She very probably WILL lie. So what? You see, the call will be a way of ramping up the pressure on a fantasy your WH and she may have been developing. I suspect Dr. Harley may have recommended the call to elicite information (to the extent the OW is willing to be truthful), but it's also to put the OW on notice that you're in there fighting for your WH and things won't be so rosy in their fantasy world.

Hang in there.

I called once before and hung up (no nerve) ... she told him. When he & I got off the phone today following my confrontation, he called her right after. They are on high-alert. Will she tell me anything at all? I think she'll say the same thing he is saying - "just friends".

Now, can I begin exposure to ILs and friends?

So TFC,what are you going to do if he wants to get separated?Just sit back and wait for him to play and hope he decides he wants to be M again!I am so overwhelmed with my situation!It's hard being separated cuz you don't know what their doing!I haven't even heard from mine in over a week!How do you work on a M when you are separated?Out of sight,out of mind!Although my H was never out of my mind during my A,and we were separated then!It just made it easier when I didn't see or talk to him cuz when I saw him or heard the hurt in his voice it killed me!

That's a good question jks! Next week I will be at the beach with DD and will be sure to set aside time to really work on my plan. As much as he travels, its almost like we're separated anyway. And, just because we're separated doesn't mean I won't know what he's doing ... you have to remember that my H is a public figure and I always find out something.

If he needs to "play" to figure out if he wants our M or not, I don't really have room to stop him. And I'd rather him "play" on his own, rather than DD wondering why Daddy lives with us but spends the night out.

Good that you called in. Listen to Longhorn .... there is good stuff written by Longhorn. I appreciate the different angle of contacting the OW.
fyi - I am not a 'pro' - just a rookie but long time lurker. I was drawn in because this sitch has a lot of pain on both sides. Your DD is worth the effort of saving your M - to have both loving parents.

BTW - I am sure it has been addressed but the travel schedule has to be modified one day. I use to travel across the country and overseas for 29 weeks per year. Most times I was always home during the weekend for our dates. This extra effort still almost cost my M. Together time can never to replaced - the burden and vulnerabilities are not woth the risk.

Since I travel very little now, we have grown in love together but it has taken almost took 2 yrs of non-travel to get back what was lost. Not worth it.

I've appreciated having you & Longhorn here this week! I agree, but H thinks DD will be fine if we get D. This hurts to hear, because I don't think that's ok.

Travel schedule was addressed by Dr. H - this is not something that can change in his career (and I'm ok with that), but I can start meeting up with him for weekends away. I am willing to work around the travel.

Think I should expose to MIL & SIL today? or should I give it a little more time?

I'm going to brush up on SAA again tonight to see what I've missed. I feel like I've been drowning and have no clue what I'm doing! I need to try to calm down and set a PLAN ...one that I can stick to! (This has obviously been the hardest thing for me to do!) Any pointers from the pros?

Well, he just called my cell. We were eating dinner and didn't notice. Had DD phone him back from house. We spoke. He stated he was afraid I was keeping DD from talking to him ... told him I would never do that. Small talk for a bit followed by him saying he was still upset about this morning. I apologized for the angry outburst only. He said that wasn't what he's upset about - he's upset that I listened to other people and presumed to know his feelings. I explained that I didn't presume to know his feelings; I only expressed my concern for what I thought his feelings could be. He told me that I need to keep in mind that the people that I'm surrounding myself with have a vendetta against him (not true - they are for our M, not one or the other of us). Said he would call later.

What now?

P.S. Notice he didn't deny his feelings. And his voice sounded rather deflated on the phone.