LH - are you through with me? I've noticed that you haven't responded lately ...

Nope, I'm not through at all...but I do have visitors again this week (two grandnieces and a grandnephew) and I've been a trifle preoccupied. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've been reading here off and on, but there hasn't been much to say while you work things through in your mind. I'll be watching closer now that you're posting more.

Hang in there, lady. Things are going to work out, one way or the other.

LH

Hope you enjoyed your guests ... just checking in to say "hi" ...

I did, thanks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How're things going?

They just are. Some days are good, most are bad. I'm just very unsure of things. I'm trying to work it all out in my head. I cried in therapy like a baby last week! It felt good to cry, I haven't really been able to lately. But of course after a bad depression spell, H started acting like a H again. I'm just never sure how long it will last ...

Sorry to hear there are so many bad days. Perhaps it would be useful to simply re-read SAA?

It could be, but I doubt it ... at this point, I just have to decide if I'm willing to be in a marriage where my H says he loves me but acts otherwise. He doesn't want to change his behaviors, therefore I don't expect him to. I'm willing to do what it takes, he isn't. And if he is, he has a funny way of showing it. He says one thing, and his actions say another. I just don't know what to do. I don't want a D, but I don't want a M like this either. And there's no promise of things to come ... he won't say that he's committed to working things out! He said that he's riding it out to see how things go. Well, things don't change on their own - you have to actually do some work to get them where you want them!

Correct. With respect, your WH is sitting high on that fence of his and livin' large. I see only through your eyes, but I can't imagine him changing his behavior much beyond this point because he has no motivation to do so. Oh, there’ll be periods when he's considerate to you and perhaps even marginally affectionate, but I don’t think those behaviors will last much beyond the next trip to a place where some girl attracts his eye.

TFC, you’re doing as good a Plan A as you can do, but you can’t do it indefinitely. It hurts too much. You’re doing all you can to deposit to his LB and getting little or nothing in return. That will devastate you and your love for him in the long term.

Before that happens, Dr. Harley recommends implementing a Plan B to preserve the love, but Plan B will also prepare you for the possibility of a Plan D. TFC, that possibility must be faced because your WH is entrenching himself in a behavioral pattern that will eventually doom the marriage all by itself. From what you say, he’s actually been engaged in inappropriate conduct your whole marriage and I think it’s beginning to destroy you. I suspect a good counselor could find indications his neglect and disrespect was at the center of you seeking out another man to get your unfulfilled EN’s met.

TFC, Plan A works by itself only 15% of the time...and your husband doesn’t seem to be one of those who respond to only that plan. He loves his cake eating and isn’t going to stop without a good reason to do so. I also note you said you cried uncontrollably in your latest IC session, TFC. Without anything else to go on, I have to wonder if the pain isn’t beginning to overwhelm your love for WH. If that happens, you’ll turn from not wanting a divorce to working hard to get one, without having explored the possibilities of a Plan B.

When you’re ready, TFC...when you have things sorted out...tell us where you think you’ll be in six months to a year down the line. Where will you be if things continue the way they are...if you don’t do something about the situation? Then tell us what you think you need to do to look after yourself and your daughter.

Love bank is negative. He's out of town. Final straw was this morning when I found out a girl was seen getting into his car last night. I've packed his things for him.

<sigh>

I'm so sorry things have come to this point...and in this way, TFC. If you can, make this as good a Plan B as you did a Plan A, okay? Bounce ideas off us and MB folks will help you through this time.

I don't even know where to begin with Plan B ... and I honestly don't think it will do an ounce of good. He just wants to be this way, and I can't take it. Plan D may be the only way to go here.

Frankly, LH has steered you dead wrong here TFC. You should have paid a lot more attention to the words of JL and ignored the words of a man that has a good portion of MB on ignore because they questioned his lousy methods.

I am sorry you are in this place. I would advise you to unpack the bags and stop being so reactionary. You are doing no one, including yourself, any good by being so quick to change course.

You'll never know if you don't do a Plan B.

You've made the decision for some kind of physical separation so there won't be any new pain, right? If you aren't sure, go for a jog or put on your boxing gloves and go pound that body bag for a while. When your emotions are securely under control, sit down and make a calm decision of whether you've done Plan A for long enough, with no return, or whether you can stand it for a little while longer.

If you've done Plan A long enough, for an option, how about just going dark with a good Plan B, instead of Plan D, to let WH see what living without his wife and child is like? He just might come around to a different point of view.

As for where to start in Plan B, begin with looking at what Dr. Harley recommends for a Plan B letter in SAA. Secure your finances today. Check with your attorney to find out what you need to do to ensure proper spousal support and child support from WH. Set up a plan for him to visit with your child. I think that would be enough for today.

I think you should gather your support group around you. Call your best friend and have a nice long conversation. See if your IC can talk with you. Hang in there, TFC. Things look gloomy right now, but the moment you begin to take positive steps, things begin to brighten.

Well, I didn't get MB on it ... I did it my way. He called for the umpteenth time and I finally answered. I told him I was done and this half-[censored], one foot in the door crap wasn't going to cut it anymore. I told him he needed to make a decision, and fast. I've proven for 6 months that I'll do what it takes to save this marriage, and he hasn't done 1 thing to show he will. He agreed. He suggested we go to MC to figure it out. I told him no - we either go into MC with the mindset that we are going to stay married no matter what and make this work, or we call it quits. He agreed the gray area was no longer acceptable and said "lets do it" to staying married. I told him that there would be a lot of things that needed to happen in order for this to work on BOTH our behalves. He agreed. Don't know what to do now, but maybe I should start by unpacking?

<chuckle> In the end, MB ways are always filtered through the person you are deep inside so no sweat on not doing it MB style.

Generally speaking, MC won't do any good while he's seeing another woman. What about your other boundaries?

He's not seeing anyone in particular - he just hangs out with other women too much and talks to them too personally. That is a boundary that will now be enforced like an orange-alert! I'm not going into MC unless there is a full-on commitment to drop this habit of his and tell these women that their conversations have been too personal. I'm also not going unless he man ups and takes my hand and walks me into his b-day party. Its time to show and tell everyone (especially each other) that we're gonna be married the right way! Most other boundaries have been met as of late. Of course the girls are the biggie!

I agree. If he wants to be married, he must start acting like it. Have you got his agreement with the prerequisites for MC?

I haven't told him yet what I'll expect should he choose to commit. He says he's ready to, but I suppose it would only be fair to discuss the parameters first? He says that he realizes that he has contributed enormously to the demise of our marriage. He said that he knew he needed to be the one to take the next step since I've worked so hard over the last 6 months. He recognized that my impatience today is a result of my anger & frustration with his lack of meeting any of my needs. So, he's saying the right things ...

Yea...but actions show progress. Right now words are probably not enough, right? Don't settle for a little. Let him know the words sound good but action is now required to help you feel safe. Don't worry about ILY's. He needs to show it, not just say it. See how the level is raised? It should NOT be lowered. If he tries to get you t/b satisfied with only his words....he is playing you and you s/b angry. If he shows action make sure it is his best and not token service.

JMHO,
L.

Yes, you need to discuss particulars with him. He does seem to be saying the right things, but that's long distance, right? I'm concerned, based on prior posts you've made, that he's very good at placating you with good words from far away, but he seldom backs it up with action when he comes home. I think, if you agree with that assessment and if you’re truly sick of the way things have been going, it should be made clear that won't work this time.