Hi all.. i am new here... i am just sooo confused about divorce.... i am on the fence and could go either way.. hopefully some advice will help...
my husband and i married after just 3 months of knowing each other... we have been married for 7 months now... but after we got married, i learned of his extreme violent behaviors... he is physically destructive (especially when it comes to MY belongings...) and verbally abusive... we haven't been in a physical altercation (except for the time that i was afraid and did defend myself)... he has returned to counseling... and has been doing a bit better... i can see that he really IS trying.... but i am to the point where i am not sure if i want to continue with this relationship. I am on the edge of the fence.... it could go either way... i want to be happy again, but it's an unbearable struggle... any advice?

HUGS, Welcome.

My first advice is to avoid getting pregnant. This is not a situation to bring a child into.

What does the counselor say to you? Personally, I think that aggressively destroying your spouse’s belongings is very scary. It is kind of like going after you. And then there’s the verbal abuse.

It may be a good idea to come up with an emergency plan. In other words, if you have to leave suddenly, where would you go? Do you have some cash stashed away, etc.?

I may be alone here, but you’ve known each other for less than a year, and you don’t have any children. Divorce may not be the end of the world. On the other hand, if you wanted to wait a few more months and see if your husband can stop his scary, violent behavior, I’d think that was fair, too. Right about now, the “honeymoon” period starts to wear off in a relationship. We become desensitized to each other’s pheromones, so it may be a time when an abuser starts to relax his/her control and the abuse escalates.

One thing I would definitely do if I were in your shoes, I’d write down my baseline expectations and keep that close by me. I was like the frog in the pot. The heat was turned up gradually, and I was able to excuse and tolerate behavior that would have sent me running for the hills a few years earlier. Do not let this be you.

Oh, and if you start to forget major arguments, or think you are going crazy, that’s the abuse starting to damage your reasoning.

Hi stressedwife,

I agree that it may not be the worst thing you could do,given your story,to leave your husband if things continue as is and he doesn't really develop new behaviors that are appropriate.

You got married too fast and therefore didn't really get to know all about this man.More often than not we hear about things like this coming up after the "honeymoon" phase wears off and the guard goes down.

Physical and verbal/emotional abuse are behaviors that are very hard to admit having and also to deal with.There would have to be a lifelong effort in him to avoid it and also retraining to interact with you,and other's,respectfully and with care.Some people would rather not have to do that.

My suggestion is this: even though your husband may be trying,never allow him to put you in harms way and leave right away if he does.Don't kid yourself into thinking that maybe you are doing something wrong to allow him to treat you that way or that it's your fault in any way.When it comes to this type of abuse,you are taking a big risk by staying ok? I am not saying there is absolutely no hope but watch his actions: those speak louder than words.I would like to be more positive but it's always very delicate when dealing with a person like your husband.

Be careful.What is most important here is your safety ,not the issue of divorce.

Thank you so very much... as far as the children go... we already have our OWN children.... i have a 16 yo son and a 12 yo daughter.. he has a 10 yo son as well, that we have 50% of the time... we were actually pregnant right after the marriage, but we had no intentions of having children.. he was actually scheduled for a vasectomy when i got pregnant.. i have since had a miscarriage... a blessing in disguise i guess.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ...
we are actually living in MY house.. one that i purchased on my own 5 years ago... i also have another property that will be sold in the next year or so... i have asked him to leave and he said that he will take 1/2 of everything i own.... can he do that?
you are both VERY right about my safety... there are times when i'm afraid...
also, the counselor NEVER says anything about his destructive behavior... the sessions always seem to revert back to how he was abandoned when he was a child... he was raised by his father and grandmother.. never had a mother figure... his mom is still here but very difficult at times... she is bi-polar... he has gone through much heartache in his life and has never actually dealt with it... i feel like i'm getting the bad end of the stick... the anger is coming out on me...
i am an EXTREMELY independant woman.. i've been on my own with my 2 children for the past 11 years... but i feel like i've lost it all... especially my independance, which is funny, because he says it's the first thing that attracted him to me... ????... maybe it was something he knew he could try to take ..or control... i dont' know... but it worked...
i have repeatedly told him that if his behavior doesn't change drastically, that i want a divorce...
my family has already disowned him because of his actions towards me... i feel soooo alone...
do i continue to go to his therapy sessions or let him go on his own to figure out his own issues... they are not so-called marriage related issues to be going for counseling.. i have always been a solid grounded person... the relationships i have had in the past have been great, but unfortunately ended because of reluctancy of my ALREADY made family... but they have always ended amicably... because i DO understand where my position lies... with MY family...
i think the more i talk about this to others who understand... i have come to a more clear answer....
i have to give a certain time frame for things to change.. and if they don't... it's time to move on.... ??

What you need is a lawyer asap. And here's why: In some states, the division of property is different depending on the length of the marriage. Also, a good attorney will get you at least the house.

Also, talk to a Women's shelter or hotline about the abuse. None of us here are experts. You need an expert. Much abusive behavior has its roots in fear. Fear of being abused him or herself, fear of abandoment, etc. But, while it is sometimes helpful to understand from whence the urge to act a certain way comes, understanding is NOT excusing.

And remember, you are not alone. Your family disowned him, not you. You are still you at the core, even if he's been hacking away at your independence.

And keep us informed.

BTW, please keep in mind that "Plan A" and other MB techniques do not work with toxic, abusive, or addicted people. Do not try them on your H. These techniques become enabling when used on people with those issues.

I do have a friend who is a lawyer... i will consult him... he can point me in the right direction... I am thankful i have found this group.. even just being a lurker has helped tremendously...
Thank you for listening and offering advice.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
also, if need be.. has anyone heard of WE THE PEOPLE... it's a place for quick, inexpensive divorces... there is one by me.. and was just wondering...

It depends.States like California have a 50/50 law if you were married more than 10 years.But you have not been married that long.Each state probably has a different law but my guess would be that the home you purchased on your own should still be only yours.I think what he said was more a threat than anything.




I can understand your anger.If the counselor never addresses your H's behavior,that is like avoiding the big,white elephant in the room.I would look for a new counselor.Plus,many people have had pretty bad childhoods.It doesn't give you carte blanche to repeat those behaviors on other's or deny that you have a responsibility to be caring and respectful to other's too.That's a cop out IMO.

----------------
My opinion is that only you can decide when you have had enough.For example,I had a certain time frame,date,in mind when I was thinking about just how much longer I was going to keep trying to save my marriage ( alone) and stand by while my now exH was out engaged in his adultery.I was not going to let him decide that for me.So I made a date and STUCK BY IT.

That was one of the hardest things to do because I could have easily said,one more chance,one more day,I could have believed his lies over and over.And I saw that here on MB over and over,chance after chance after chance,only the same patterns kept repeating.Where is the self dignity and respect in that? Someone wiping their feet on you over and over knowing they get all those chances.Not me.

Some people feel ok about longer time frames and repeat chances.That is ok for them.You have to decide your own time frame and stick by it.Don't back out.Because if you do,then they learn that you cave in on your boundaries,they can be challenged and destroyed and that is your downfall.Be sure about what you want.

Americanbeauty,
Thank you so very much for your extremely needed advice... i am definitely not one to be taken advantage of and because i have been recently my self esteem has fallen through the floor... i am regaining it back with the help of MB and some deep self examination... i know what i want... i want to be happy again... i plan on sticking by my guns and not being overrun by H's negative emotions... he does have a good side to him, so, i'm hoping that he can fix it before it's too late...
i will also check into PA law for divorce property... because i do NOT want to lose something that i put my heart and soul into for so long... i bought one house on my own 5 years ago and the other was with my ex.. and i bought him out 10 years ago... so, it's be a great accomplishment for me and i'm proud to have been able to do this on my own... it's one thing that is MINE and proved my independence....
I look forward to many more chats with you and the other members <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> hoping to build some great relationships <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Maria

Maria,

What a pretty name. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good for you for reclaiming some of your self worth again.I can appreciate how that can slowly be destroyed by those who treat you poorly.You start to feel inferior and that something must be wrong with you.Bologny! You sound a bit like me in that I am also very independent.I am also strong willed,certain,self assured in many ways.I have very clear boundaries and values and beliefs that no one can sway me away from.They are a part of me.It's just how it is.

I also can appreciate the home issue.It's a good feeling owning your own home isn't it? I am so proud too that I do and I love my home dearly.It was and still is my sanctuary.And you have 2 homes.How grand!!

I also like the fact that I can show my children that you don't need to depend on anyone else to make your life worthwhile or happy,for that matter, and that to be financially secure is a great feeling.Financial Security
(FS) is probably one of my top 3 EN's if I listed them.

Anyway,glad you are feeling comfortable here.There are many terrific folks on MB with a lot of sound advice.We'll be here to pick you up and dust you off as needed.lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

it's funny.. i was going to say that you sound alot like me also <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but didn't want to sound silly... as i do not know you YET <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />...
thanks for the shoulder to lean on... i needed it today...
i was on a great online support group when i was pregant and lost the baby... and i'm happy that i am just as comfortable here...
i think some men are afraid of strong, independent, sane women... and they try to break that down... or so-called wear the pants in the family... haha.. but i've been wearing the pants too long and am only willing to share them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi stressedwife,

I thought I would mention that you might read a book called, “Men Who Hate Women And The Women Who Love Them”. A counselor suggested this book to me in 1997. I bought it but only scanned through it and quit seeing the counselor. She was not very good at getting her points across to me – just listened a lot and took a lot of notes. It’s only been recently that I’ve reflected back on some things she said that I finally understand.

So, I’m reading this book again and it sounds like something that would apply to your situation. Don’t let the title fool you. These men don’t know they don’t love women and we don’t see their behavior as ‘hate’, just confusing, abusive, controlling, etc. The book explains what’s behind the man’s personality and beliefs that drives him to behave the way he does and it helps us make good decisions in how to deal with the situations we find ourselves in.

There are two red flags that popped out to me from the things you’ve said. First, you mentioned that your husband ‘has a good side’. The book addresses this point directly. Beware. Don’t think you can necessarily get rid of the bad and keep that good that you’re seeing. It comes as a package. The second thing is that he began his behavior shortly after you married him – shortly after his life was emotionally and legally (especially legally) tied to yours. Another way to say this is the behavior began once you were dependent on him (for whatever – be it emotional support, financial partnering, etc.) In some ways you are dependent, because relationships are interdependent (preferably NOT codependent or dependent). The book speaks directly to the profile you’ve described in the two traits I’ve mentioned.

Another something I would like to mention… How you behave with this man will send strong messages to your children and your first responsibility should be to them – to finish raising them as best you can and you don’t need this other man to help you do that. It sounds like their environment was healthier before he came along, even though you didn’t have a husband and they didn’t have a step-father living with the three of you. That doesn’t mean you need to completely cut him out of your life, but he probably shouldn’t hold the important position of husband and step-father until he behaves like one, instead of the spoiled child he’s behaving like. He would probably behave much better outside of a marriage & family structure, because his need to control wouldn’t have power over you. As for the future of your relationship with him, only time can tell. But, I think you should not be married to him and your children should not be exposed to his treatment and your response to it. Every time you choose to continue your relationship and endure more possible abuse, you’re teaching your children it’s ok sometimes to let people do this to them. It is never ok. No amount of your ‘good behavior’ or ‘good influence’ will change him, create balance, or undo the negatives of his influence. You can’t fix him by getting ‘it’ right (no matter what ‘it’ is), you can’t bring balance to an imbalanced person. He will simply continue to drain the life out of your family, beginning with you. I am speaking from experience.

The last point I would like to mention is your assets. The sooner you divorce, the less of a fight you’ll have keeping the things you’ve worked so hard to gain. The longer you wait, the more the law will see your assets as his, the stronger his claim will be. (God forbid he quits working and ends up dependent on you – the law tends to punish the producer to take care of the consumer to make things ‘fair’.) How do you know he didn’t plan this from the beginning? What assets has he brought to your marriage? Besides a job? The fact that he thinks he could get half of your assets makes me think he thought of this long before he married you and might have married you with that in mind. I’m certain there are emotional reasons as well, but the fact that he would say such a thing… a GOOD person wouldn’t expect to take a thing from you so early into a relationship. They would behave as though it were more like an annulment and both parties would be returned to the same financial state as when they entered into the marriage.

I know how hard it is to move away from the realm of possibility to the realm of strong boundaries. It took me almost three years to get there myself. I hung on because I was trying to save a 15 year marriage, but if I had understood my ex’s personality, I would have left him the first year. As it ended up, I endured 15 years from one crisis to the next. He’s never going to change. People can’t really change who they are. I believe God can, but it’s a transformation at the deepest parts of our souls that only God can really reach (and He can’t if your husband’s not paying attention to Him and putting Him first – Lord of his life). Your priorities should be yourself and your children FIRST.

You could still have your husband in your life, but at a safe distance, legally & emotionally. Please take the time to read this book. I believe it will really help you. I wouldn’t jump right on this if you’d been involved with this man much longer, but your relationship is so new – this is what it is. Do you want THIS? I don’t think it’s what you bargained for when you married him. If you made a list of your husband’s recently discovered character traits, would you marry him today? I’m guessing (because you are a very competent woman) that you would not. Don’t be afraid to draw a boundary with him. If he leaves, he doesn’t have the ability to change. If he stays, he might. But, at least you’ll know and you’ll be safe while you find out what he’s capable of changing for you.

May God bless you and keep you close.

(P.S. – Another very good book is “Love Must Be Tough” by James Dobson. He explains why it’s so important never to settle for anything less than respect in marriage, but he teaches in the gentle style of Dr. Harley.)

hfpw,
Thank you for the indept and strong willed advice.... i will keep all of this in mind and i am trying to get things figured out.... as i said, he has two sides... dr jekyl and mr hyde i've been naming him in my own mind.... mental illness is hereditary and if he cannot control it with medication or psychotherapy, then i cannot stay.. he wants to change... but i told him it has to be for HIM, not for me... everything begins within... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> just as i have evolved, he will have to do the same... on his own timeline.... but i know that our timelines are not the same... i don't know how much more i can take...
money is becoming a HUGE issue right now.... we have been married for 7 months and i have NEVER received ANY money from him to help pay bills/car payments/car insurance... etc... a roof over his SON"S head...he said that i did it on my own, why do i need his money.... i told him to start paying or get out... he said he wanted his name on my DEED so that i could NEVER force him out.... well, guess what... i'm not a dumb girl. I think i'm pretty smart... but not as smart as i thought i would be when it comes to marriage.... i should have stuck with my gut instinct from childhood.... NEVER get married.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but it is what it is... and now has to be fixed or desolved... time can only tell...
Thank you for your generous support... I am thankful i have found a group that is willing to open their hearts to me...

Maria

(tried to reply once, but it didn't 'take' -sorry if you get this twice)

Hi again Maria,

Just thought I would mention that the book I recommended uses the term "Jekyll & Hyde" specifically to describe these men.

From what you've added, I'm certain you are in trouble with him in your life. To move into your life and lay claim to your money and your assets AFTER you committed to him in marriage is a HUGE warning sign. You're in the midst of the dark cloud of confusion that these people like to use to keep you under control, guessing, analyzing, trying. The only way to deal with them is not to deal with them at all.

Another HUGE warning sign is not offering to pay things fairly, but expecting you to maintain the status quo. My own ex would keep his own money and expect me to continue to pay the bills month after month. We sent our daughter to DC for 10 days, a $3500 trip, and he said "he" paid for it - never even considering that I was the one making the mortgage payments and other payments to allow him to do that. When you're married, it's one big pot and both should share in the responsibilities. My ex claiming to send my daughter on that trip alone really offended me, considering that the bills I'd been paying probably amounted to more than that, not to mention that I also bought her a new wardrobe by myself, for her trip. It occured to me that my ex was 'using' me as if I were his parent (resource provider), not his wife. He was also carrying on an affair (not that yours is - just see the unmitigated gall, the nerve).

Your husband's behavior has the same tone as my own ex, not to mention the stories in the book, and I am pleading to you that you need to get out before he's able to lay claim to your hard earned assets. A judge will look at a 7 month marriage and will probably end it leaving your financial well-being intact, seeing your ex's intent for what it is, opportunism at your expense. But, if it goes into a year or more, he'll start taking chunks out of your life to suit the time your husband has invested and you'll have suffered more during that time as well.

The only way this can go well is if you protect yourself now. There is always the future, whether you divorce him or not, whether he stays in your life or not. But, you need to protect yourself now. No amount of analysis, truth, insight, clarity is going to change his behavior. Change will change it. As soon as you take care of yourself, he'll probably throw some real big tantrums, but then he'll give up, knowing you can't be manipulated. Then you can see about the future with him.

I want to jump into the computer and look into your eyes through the dark cloud you're in and plead with your soul to come out - to allow those who really do care about you lead you out of that darkness. You have the right to take care of yourself, regardless of the consequences to him or your marriage. You don't really have a marriage - not the one that's intended or the one you thought you chose.

Be well.

Hi again Maria,

Just thought I would mention that the book I recommended uses the term "Jekyll & Hyde" specifically to describe these men.

From what you've added, I'm certain you are in trouble with him in your life. To move into your life and lay claim to your money and your assets AFTER you committed to him in marriage is a HUGE warning sign. You're in the midst of the dark cloud of confusion that these people like to use to keep you under control, guessing, analyzing, trying. The only way to deal with them is not to deal with them at all.

Another HUGE warning sign is not offering to pay things fairly, but expecting you to maintain the status quo. My own ex would keep his own money and expect me to continue to pay the bills month after month. We sent our daughter to DC for 10 days, a $3500 trip, and he said "he" paid for it - never even considering that I was the one making the mortgage payments and other payments to allow him to do that. When you're married, it's one big pot and both should share in the responsibilities. My ex claiming to send my daughter on that trip alone really offended me, considering that the bills I'd been paying probably amounted to more than that, not to mention that I also bought her a new wardrobe by myself, for her trip. It occured to me that my ex was 'using' me as if I were his parent (resource provider), not his wife. He was also carrying on an affair (not that yours is - just see the unmitigated gall, the nerve).

Your husband's behavior has the same tone as my own ex, not to mention the stories in the book, and I am pleading to you that you need to get out before he's able to lay claim to your hard earned assets. A judge will look at a 7 month marriage and will probably end it leaving your financial well-being intact, seeing your ex's intent for what it is, opportunism at your expense. But, if it goes into a year or more, he'll start taking chunks out of your life to suit the time your husband has invested and you'll have suffered more during that time as well.

The only way this can go well is if you protect yourself now. There is always the future, whether you divorce him or not, whether he stays in your life or not. But, you need to protect yourself now. No amount of analysis, truth, insight, clarity is going to change his behavior. Change will change it. As soon as you take care of yourself, he'll probably throw some real big tantrums, but then he'll give up, knowing you can't be manipulated. Then you can see about the future with him.

I want to jump into the computer and look into your eyes through the dark cloud you're in and plead with your soul to come out - to allow those who really do care about you lead you out of that darkness. You have the right to take care of yourself, regardless of the consequences to him or your marriage. You don't really have a marriage - not the one that's intended or the one you thought you chose.

Be well.

Thank you.... and i couldn't have said it better myself... i am in a dark cloud.. and i can feel it's weight.... it's scary.... i have now moved to seeking legal advice which infuriated him yesterday... but now he wants to change again... it's always when he sees an end to our journey that he wants to put it back on track... and then history repeats itself as proven time and time again... i have the books written down and in my purse, i am going to purchase them after work today... i will keep you posted on my readings <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
i know that i have the ability and mindset to be alone again.... alone with myself... i know that i do not need a man.. even though he may NEED me... i was soooo happy for soooo long and now it has all gone downhill.. i need to get that back... i'd like to have him be part of the happiness, because that one side of him makes me happy... but i just know he can't fix it soon enough... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> i cannot continue to beat myself up over this... when it is NOT my fault... i have come to that realization... better late than never, right?
Thank you for your advice... i will take it to heart and prepare myself for what is to come...

I'm so proud of you! It's clear you are quite a woman and you do take care of business. Stronger than I, I admit. I was not so well prepared in life, so had to endure much with nowhere to go and no physical bruises to prove the abuse. That has been the hardest part for me. It took me about 17 years to find the right books, the right counselor who finally nailed the problem. I now freely give to his ministry to help others dealing with the same things.

Now I am legally divorced, but have to live in the same house with my ex until it sells. The market has made my own situation drag on. The final divorce settlement can't be completed until the house sells. My ex's latest shenanigan was to agree to share the purchase of an expensive birthday gift for our oldest daughter's 18th birthday. Days after depositing his post-dated check (I agree to nothing without legal tender ahead of time) he didn't like how a particular situation was going (relationship fallout from the divorce relating to my daughter's disdain for him due to his past abuses) so he withdrew money from the joint bill-pay account against checks he had already agreed to pay and had already sent to the recipients. He demanded that I cover the checks - get this - because I had given my daughter a check for the gift and hadn't actually made the purchase yet. (It was the sort of thing where she had to pick a color, had to decide what she wanted engraved, and I wanted to purchase a service agreement on top of that.) It took legal intervention to get him to honor his agreements.

Even now that we're divorced, he still thinks he can coerce and control me, because that's who he is. Now he's working on his girlfriend - he said some things to me in the past alluding to his intentions of "teaching" her how he wants her to behave with him. I even mentioned that he would not be able to give her what she thinks she's going to get (the outward picture of the life we had) and he's misleading her allowing her to think that. His response was "that may all be well and good, but..." - he ran right past the point, ignoring his intention to manipulate her, gain her "dependence", then never deliver on the image he portrayed for her. (I don't think it's ever occurred to her that I earned 2/3 of the money and he can't afford alone the lifestyle she saw.) He doesn't intend to do anything but use her and abuse her and he can't tell the difference.

Anyway, you go girl!!! I'm proud of you and I know you will regain the happiness you had.

Blessings to you!

i am glad that i am coming to this realization now and not in 17 years... my parents weren't happy, but they stuck together for us kids.... in my situation, i have raised my kids on my own and realize that i do NOT need a HUSBAND to help.... i'd like to have a partner, a friend... not a husband at this point....
I am afraid to have my husband continue to live in my house and for me to support him and his son... i pay 100% of all bills... his money is for HIM... he's not even interested in offering... not even to have his SON live there... i'm just so frustrated....
take this in to mind with your husband and his girlfriend... what goes around comes around... i'm sure of that....
You seem like a very well grounded person... it may have taken you a long time to get to where you are... but YOU DID IT!!!!
we ALL Deserve to be happy...
Thank you so very much for listening.
Have a great weekend <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Stressed, Actually paying all the bills may help you keep the house. If I were you, I’d also discourage any “home improvement” projects your H may want to do. There was a case either in PA or DE where a woman had a pre-nupt that said the house was hers. Well, wouldn’t you know, when they divorced, the man claimed he had ownership in the house because he contributed substantially to the upkeep and did maintenance. He won.

My observation is that you don’t have a marriage if his money is for him. What you have is a man who moved into your home and got a legal contract that will make it a pain in the tushy to get him out.

Beware the “nice” side. That is manipulation to make you feel badly about leaving.

It's all easier said than done. LOL.

well, they say time will tell... well, it told me on sunday.. i had to file emergency pfa... then a temporary pfa on monday... i have a hearing tomorrow for a permanent... wish me luck !!!