Hi,

I'll quickly recap my sitch before I ask my question: (F)WW had a short EA before I found out about it - it ended ~3 wks ago & we're in MC. The decision whtether to attempt reconciliation or to separate has yet to be made (by her anyhow). We're still living together & get along OK.

I know (at least I think I know) what my boundaries would be for the cases of reconciliation or separation; but I've sort of fallen between two stools here & I'm not sure as to what boundaries I have the right to ask for (likewise - I don't really know what boundaries she has the right to ask for). My gut feeling is to go with the boundaries common to both (honesty).

I can't be the first person to be in this position - has anyone got any experiences or thoughts on this?

TIA.

Em

AM, I would print this up and take it to counseling. This is what it will take to recover your marriage from the damage your wife inflicted. It will take alot of very hard work on her part to recover and to regain your trust:

Four Rules to guide Marital Recovery: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html

AM, I would ask her to demonstrate to you that all contact has been ended with the OM, followed up with a no contact letter. She should also agree to become an open book with you, giving you all her passwords, etc so that there can be no secrets between you.

A no contact letter should be written by you both and mailed by you. Here is a sample from Surviving an Affair:

(OP), I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that (BS) did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay (BS) for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she's been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely,
(WS)

Melody has given you some good advice. You might want to consider patterning your boundaries on those 4 rules.

e.g.

1st Rule:
The Rule of Care: Meet Your Spouse's Most Important Emotional Nee

1st Boundary:
I will not remain in an M where my spouse refuses or shows no inclination to meet my most important needs after I've clearly expressed them to her.

ML & ManInMotion: You've hit the nail on the head exactly, but also my thumb. The things you've mentioned are what required for R. We have not yet got to that point. She is in withdrawal & has not committed to R or separation & I don't feel comfortable (or right even) in asking for the 4 rules.

As the man said:
" ... If you are willing to permanently end your relationship with your lover (never see or communicate with him again), get through withdrawal, **__ and then __** you and your husband follow the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery
... ".

I now know the question I should have asked: what boundaries (if any) do I have the right to during the period of withdrawal? NC is the obvious one (& it's holding), but I include that in honesty.

My feeling is that withdrawal is a very different stage to R, & that maybe it has its own list of do's & don't's. Am I wron in this

Em

AM, for now, your boundary should be no contact and an open demonstration of such, ie: opening up her life to you. The other things should be discussed. Especially a committment to your marriage. She must understand that you are not planning on staying around while she "thinks" about if she wants to stay married or not.

ML: Thanks for that - it's what I need to know. It's also reassuring because that's what I'm asking for: I'm expecting a fight on my hands tho <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks

Em

AM-

When my wife was in that same stage, our MC at the time said something very profound to her...she HATED it, but has long since recognized the truth of the statement.

"You can't wait for the marriage to get better until you make the choice to work on it." She used the anology of building a house. "You don't tell yourself that you want a house, and wake up one day to find that you've got one. You have to CHOOSE to build it first...then start the work of building it. After that choice, after the hard work, you find you've got a wonderful house to live in. But it all started with the CHOICE."

Like I said, my wife HATED it. But it was the bare bones truth...and something your wife is going to have to face as well.

Make sense?

Mel and MIM are giving you sound advice. Your boundaries, when reasonable (and yours are quite reasonable)can be an effective way to communicate that you will not be a door mat. Keep reading and following the advice you're being given......what you're experiencing is not unique, we'll all give you our take on things.....

Good luck...

Thank you all - your advice is a great help. I'm listening & taking action, but I'm a man so it takes a little time to sink in (but once there it stays stuck).

Em

I agree with all of the above, but here's my take on boundaries:

I've communicated my boundaries to my WW throughout Plan A, and she has them memorized now. I didn't "overdo" it or cram them down her throat, I just would consistently lay them out and refer to them during the necessary times.

Here they are (Short version):

1. Marriage of 2, not 3
2. Respect
3. Transparency
4. Investment
5. I will not remain long in a loveless marriage

I told her once that they are, in a way, fulfilled in successive steps. The first three are a package, Investment comes with recovery, and in the end, I will NOT remain in a loveless marriage.

When my WW goes into complete fogtalk and vitriol, I invoke my "I will not tolerate disrespectful talk, please do not speak to me in such a manner." It always ends the disrespectful talk. I've never had to utilize the consequence: "Sorry, but I'll have to go. How about we talk a bit later, say, in ten minutes?"

Communicate and define your boundaries.

Thanks Jayban. The sticky point is your #3 (part of my honesty & openness boundary - but I'll break it into separate points as you have, easier to handle that way). She won't take kindly to being asked to be transparent; but I'm sticking to it.

We've essentially had separate lives for the past 3-4 years having slowly drifted apart (same sorry tale as most here really) so she values her privacy & her other life away from the family.

I've got a struggle on my hands but I'm hopeful: a boundary of mutual transparency is for more reasonable for all parties than one of privacy (& so secrecy); doubly so given that she was having an A 3 wks ago.

Thanks again.

Em

You mean she values "SECRECY," don't you? It is the secrecy and the seperate lives that has led to her affair. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO THE "PRIVACY" TO HAVE AN AFFAIR. So the removal of same will be the solution. That has had a devastating impact on your marriage that has caused you to fall out of love. There is absolutely NOTHING that should be "private" in your marriage anymore.

A good first step, in addition to no contact, will be to spend 15 hours together weekly and stop the seperate lives.

Hello again ML: Thank you for your continued support.

You are right - it's secrecy she values. I value honesty & openess above all other things at the moment(it's my top EN by a country mile, understandable for a BS). I'm adopting the "slowly slowly catchy monkey" approach for now; consistent application of common sense should prevail.

We're doing pretty OK on the time together thing: we've taken to chatting for an hour over coffee in the morning before leaving for work (it quite often runs over & she's late for work), we talk after dinner (& whilst preparing dinner & cleaning up) most evenings. We've talked more in the last 5 wks than in the previous 5 yrs. I'll count them to see how well we're doing.

Thanks again.

Em