Post deleted by needing_help

My story has some strong similarities with yours, and some big differences too. Married almost 24 years, 2 daughters about the same ages, a marriage that has been troubled for years, serious issues that have never been properly dealt with. I don't know if what I share with you will be helpful, but it might shed some light.

In my case, I was the BS about 6 years ago (I posted under a different name then) so an affair did taint the marriage, on top of the other issues. We went to counseling, 3 hours a week, every week for a year and a half. This accomplished very little. We have managed to hold our marriage together, in my opinion, by focusing on our parenting and ignoring everything else. However, the kids are grown now.

Without derailing your thread by going into detail about what our other issues are, suffice it to say that I came to accept that these things would never change. As my new name indicates, I realized that "it is what it is" - she is who she is. I can either live with that or not.

With this realization, I lost all feelings for her. I moved into a separate room more than a year ago. I too have been beginning to push for a divorce (though some current health issues with one of our daughters makes it likely we will need to delay this for a while).

I do have some underlying anger, but mostly I just want to end things amicably. I don't want to punish her or get any sort of vengeance, and I even worry about how she will manage. But I too feel that there is nothing left of our relationship to fix, and I absolutely refuse to continue to live the way she does.

Could our marriage be saved? Doubtful. It is worse than starting over, because so much damage has been done, including her EA which, I have to admit, even after 6 years I have trouble getting past.

So I don't know what your H's perspective is on your situation, but it seems nearly impossible to fix things unless both parties are highly motivated. When your heart is numb, that motivation just isn't there. It sounds to me like your H's heart is numb.

I'm not saying this to discourage you from trying to save your marriage. I'm just sharing my view of things in case it might help you understand where your H might be coming from.

NH,

Have you read all of the articles on this site yet? If not please do. I would strongly recommend the sections on Needs, the sections on radical honesty and the policy of joint agreement, but perhaps the most telling will be Harley's 4 rules for a good marriage.

I strongly suspect that you two have not done much of this right for a long time.

You said something I thought I would really key on right off of the bat.

You said
This statement right here explains just about everything that is wrong in your marriage and you don't realize it. You may not realize this but one of Harley's claims to fame and the reason his approach seems to work better than most is a simple observation.

He observed that often well meaning couples tried to meet the needs of their spouse, put considerable effort into it, only to find the marriage dying. Why? Harley observed that often the spouse did not know their partners needs and worse did not know how they wanted them met. So all of the effort completely missed the target, and the partner still felt as if they were not loved nor appreciated. He found that if the couple could know and understand one another's needs and how they wanted them met, then the chances of saving and rebuilding the marriage went WAY UP. He couches this all in terms of the love bank and love deposits.

It seems to me you have NOT been meeting your H's needs, because you have loved him "in your own way." Not in the way he needed. He is now in withdrawal, and that is a very hard state to get a person out of, but it can be done.

I would strongly encourage you to call the Harley's and spend the cost of an hour or so. It is MUCH cheaper than divorce and both of the Harley kids are very very experienced counselors with a great track record.

Your job was and needs to become meeting your H's needs in a way that he recognizes and appreciates. I think from what you have said you two have missed the target.

I would ask your H one simple question. "What would be a perfect marriage to you?" And I would also tell him you will NOT change for him, it is not even sure it is possible, but you can and will change your perspective on things in order to make both yourself and him happy.

Please see if you can get some help from the Harleys and please do alot of reading. Oh, and if you know you are not the easiest person to get along with, why don't you stop that. It clearly was and is a love buster, which is withdrawing love from your H's love bank. I would say he is about flat broke about now.

If you know things that are wrong, change them. It will do YOU a lot of good, and it just might help your marriage.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Dear JL,

You hit the nail on the head. With no communication, neither of us met the others needs.

Well, he just told me there is no reconciliation possible. He is going on with this divorce. He says he needs to move on and so do I. I am very sad about it all. There just was no getting through to him.

Is there anything else left that I can do?

I'm so sorry. I know how you feel. But it takes two to ruin a good marriage and it takes two to repair a marriage. You cannot do this alone. I know, my STBXH never really considered fixing things. I have to assume that he liked his life and who he was more than he liked being married to me. It's been hard, but already (2 years since separation) I see the benefit of not living under the gloom of unhappiness, addiction, anger, and general dissatisfaction. Life gets better - I promise you! Hang in there...you will do just fine.

I am in the same boat. He wants a divorce and I want to stay married. I asked him for more time because divorce is a big decision that affects not just us two but our children as well. So he's given me until June and then will file, he says. I hope that we can reconnect in that time. In the meantime I'm getting myself ready for the D.

Maybe ask for more time, while doing plan A. Good luck. Once I accepted mine made up his mind already, I knew harping him wouldnt change anything.

Smileygur80, I also asked for more time. He gave me until May then he's filing. I am hoping I can come up with some plan to reach him. He seems to be shutting me out more and more. I am going to speak to the counselor about this today.

Let me know if you figure something out ... mine is waiting until May/June to file also, so I would love to know if something would work to keep him a whole lot longer!

Post deleted by needing_help

Let me know what she says about the hesitation ... I'm dying to know why he doesn't just go now if he's done.

Post deleted by needing_help

We have the "no arguments" rule right now too ... it works MOST of the time. My question though is this: If they really wanted to go RIGHT NOW, why wait until school is out?

We have the no arguments rule right now too. He is giving me until June to get this settled because he will be too busy to do anything after June. He will be in and out of the state, training for his deployment next January. I thanked him for the time that he's given us, asked him to spend more time with the kids, and letting us stay here long enough to watch my oldest one graduation from preschool. If he really wanted to divorce right now, he could go ahead and do it. But he knows how hard this is on me and he wants it to be smooth as possible. I've been going to counseling to get through it.

Found this book on amazon about controlled seperation. Reading it now and it may be something we could do.

N_P,

Ok, you have some time. Let's take a look at you showing him you love him. How do you think that would look to him. No arguements sounds HUGE. I am sure it is a big love buster to him. So remove that LB from your actions. Second, what would he like to see in your over all? Is it that you are more pleasant to be around? That you show him some respect? That you might actually admire him? Here is where you take the needs questionaire and you do it as if you were him as well.

What you don't know, is that often the changes you make have nonlinear affects. He is in withdrawal, so don't expect to see immediate changes in him for some time, but you keep planting those seeds via your actions and words, and you nuture them, and let them germinate. It takes time and patience but you can do this.

Meanwhile you start learning more about yourself, how you react to different situations, and you begin to examine your actions from HIS perspective. Would he see them as you see them? If not why not? As your perspective broadens you will see many things that are not apparent to you now.

You have a shot at this, so get busy and develop a plan to remove love busters, and to show him love in HIS way, rather than your own way.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Post deleted by needing_help

Talk with the Harley's is probably the very best thing you can do. They are good, and obviously they know this stuff and have loads of experience. It will probably be the best money you ever spent.

God Bless,

JL

NH,
I am a new poster to MB, however I have been reading the site for 5 years. My H & I are recently seperated by my choice.

A little history - Married for 13+ years, three step children and one adopted child. My H has had several affairs, however our seperation is not due to an affair but for a multitude of reasons. His last affair ended 5 years ago.

I also felt that our marriage was hopeless due to not only the history, but also the emotional needs not being met for me. My H and I talked last night and I have agreed to go to counseling. He wants me to move back in, however last separation when I did, he refused to go to counseling (another broken promise). I don't want history to repeat itself.

In regards to the EN ? we decided to each complete 2. One will be on how we think the other would answer. I was actually surprised talking to him today and listening to some of his answers and boy was I off base (that is if he is being honest). We are going to take these with us to counseling and start there. I have also agreed to spend family time with him as well as one on one. I will let you know how that goes & if it does any good. My fear is that he will change in the beginning as always but will revert back all over again. It's really me needing to trust in our relationship and right now I don't.

Another poster advised me to set a time line, and I have done that. When that time is met I will determine if I will go back or it is over. I love my H but that is just not enough. I deserve more and need more. Be patient with your husband and actions speak louder than words. I have already witnessed some changes in my husband, however it is really too soon to tell if he is putting on a bandaid or perminantly repairing.

Good luck to you and I hope your husband gives you a chance to show him you want to make this work.

Granted, I am cynical and jaded at this point, but this sort of blanket generalization concerns me. Changing your behavior to suit someone else's needs is fine as long as doing so doesn't require you to deny reality, act irrationally, immorally, illegally, etc. In other words, don't sell your soul to save your marriage.

If "removing your love busters" and "showing him love in HIS way" results in eliminating harmful habits and loving him in healthy, sensible ways that also preserve your dignity, health, and sanity, then definitely - go for it.

Also, be prepared for this process - it will require extraordinary patience and sacrifice. You need to see this as an investment process (making deposits and waiting patiently for them to grow) and not a transaction process (where you expect to get something back immediately).

Having said that, also be careful that this process doesn't degrade into a long-term one-sided arrangement where only his needs get met. That isn't a marriage, it is slavery.

Finally, I can give you a glimmer of hope by telling you this: Like your H, I am deep, deep in withdrawal. I have asked for a divorce and see no other likely outcome. And yet, if my W started making sincere, substantial, and long-term changes, throwing overboard some very unhealthy and irrational behaviors, I couldn't help but be moved by that.

I don't "desire" divorce, but it is simply preferable to our current situation. That equation could change. In our situation it seems highly unlikely because my W does not show the initiative and willingness to work at it that you do. So you may be in a better position to save your marriage than we are. Obviously no guarantee - but worth a shot!

Just an update on situation. I got F in Love/S in Love on disc. Asked him to listen during daily commute. Refused, and said not interested. Left it with a note to please listen and he took it. I hope he's listening to it, still is pushing back on accepting any niceness from me but I continue to be nice, friendly, open, talking and showing more involvement with family. He is hot and cold, one minute acting very angry and the next amicable. I know job has a lot of pressure so this could be part of it. But continues to say he does not love me to continue on. I am being patient here, is all I can do.