Lilsis-I was told by someone today that its not about "giving up"..its about changing your priorities.

LilSis, in my experience, Plan A alone only works if a) the WS has had the A mainly to get the BS to take notice of the problems in the marriage, and b) the WS has no great emotional attachment to the OP.

I don't believe your marriage had any huge problems, and I DO think your H has an emotional attachment...not to the OP per se, but to an image of himself that is 'anchored' by the OP at present.

So I think you could have Plan A'd till you retired without having much effect.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

You haven't given up; you've fought a tough fight against impossible odds.

But the painful thing to accept, as you've observed, is that the marriage can never be what it was. Even if your WH comes back tomorrow, your life together would be utterly different. That's a death; that's grief.

When he comes back, and if you are willing to have him, it will have to be pretty much a new marriage. He will have been through an awfully bad adventure - he will not be the same man. You won't be able to pick up where you left off, unless you're comfortable with keeping a lot under the carpet. You will have to be a very different woman, to be able to encompass the huge changes in him.

Right now, he is far from sure that you can do that - after all, you signed up to be a loyal wife with a safe marriage. He has given you a burden of complex pain that no 'normal' wife can ever expect to deal with.

Mimi's story is signicant, in that a major turning point was her act of putting her dream home on the market (and selling it the first day). It was a declaration of independence, of emotional growth, of toughness...and it had a profound effect on her WH. I believe it gave him confidence that she could cope with the tangled complexity of their damaged relationship.

Your WH will, I believe, need to see that you are a tough, capable, independent woman, in order to have the confidence to come back.

Plan B pretty much forces you down that path.

Whether the strong, independent LilSis will want the (F)WH back is not certain. That 'freedom to choose' is what you need to have.

You are doing fine.

TA

Oh, and Pep said it beautifully.

RT is willing to take delivery of a man for whom it is fine to lie, deceive and betray one's deepest commitments.

You, on the other hand, are only willing to accept a profoundly honest and honourable man.

Which do you think he'd rather see himself as?

TA

((((((lilsis)))))))
beautiful letter.

pulling for you. fyi...my initial PBL was very lovey dovey...kind of like yours...WS doesn't even remember what it said.

I don't know what is wrong or right, but I think owl has a point...at least you have to say something about NC with amy being a condition of reconciliation.

remember this is for you, your sanity, your mental health, and saving all those wonderful feelings from being stomped on. those are the good things to hold onto.

Wow...thanks everyone. All of you: Neak, Glad, M2L, Resilient, TA, CJ, Meggy, H68, Pep...Your collective words are like the warm embrace I was talking about earlier. Comforting. Safe. Reassuring. I'm okay, I'm going to be okay!

I am at a turning point; I can feel it. Tonight the boys and I had dinner; we sat down together, said grace...they had omlettes and I had a salad.

I made us smoothies for dessert with stawberries and blueberries that I had frozen last summer.

The boys are both caught up on their homework and put away their laundry. DS8 is reading in bed, DS11 is in the shower. While DS8 was in the bathtub, I sat on the edge with my feet in the warm water and read him children's Bible stories.

I've got the boys doing more "jobs" than they used to...I've given them some responsiblities that they hadn't had before. They did those today without complaint. We are all stepping up and taking responsibility for each other and our home in ways that we didn't before.

Later this week I have my "interview" for the new position at work. (I'm the only one interviewing since they didn't post the job)

I am feeling (for the moment!!!) positive about moving ahead, moving forward. Charting a new course...who knows what lies ahead? More comfortable with giving it to God. Live for today; let him bring me to the tomorrow that he has planned. He will work it out for good. He has blessed me in so many ways. Good friends, loving family, two beautiful, smart, caring boys, a great job, a comfortable home. And sunshine...two days in a row!

A new LilSis is emerging.

My concern and sadness would be if I hadn't done everything I could do to save my marriage. If I wasn't strong enough to do Plan A for as long as I should have.

I will grieve, I have been grieving, the loss of everything that WAS...my innocence, my marriage, my illusions, my H as the golden boy. Now I need to begin to rejoice in other things...the blessings I just mentioned, my newfound strength, my new relationship with God, the support I've found from the wonderful people here, and in all the ways I have grown.

The hard part is imagining what might lie ahead. In a marriage, there's a certain amount of complacency...this is how things will be until I die. That's all out the window now...after 13 years of believing in it. Switching gears...shifting priorities....there's a LOT of resistance to starting over.

Hard to overcome the inertia of 13 years, love, kids, a home, history, hopes and dreams for the future, social convention, etc.

Ah, well. Such is life. It goes on...

FWCJ!


Great going on the homefront. You expressed it so eloquently and down to the core truths.


Takes reality vision to work through these denial layers cycles of dsyfunction.


Millions of people with hearts make good grown up choices, take responsiblity for their own addictions and get the help they need without harming/destroying people they care about/love...


Why do they what they do? Simply just because they CAN, and are enabled and empowered to do so... the problem is so deep & systemic.

Good morning Sis.. You have stated recently that you feel so alone - that you have no support group

Sis - look at this, here is your support group so far on Plan B ~~~

Mimi
nia
Bugsmom
MEDC
owl
M2L
AmI
TA
nabohio
InADaze
Princessmeggy
MikeTC
Wildhorses
Pep
Eph525
Marsh
Mulan
Cherishing
Lexxxy
Jayban
Trix
Eav
LG
BrambleRose
moveforward
schoolbus
Neak
fiatflux
Still
skylite
Glad
Jim
silentlucidity
GrownUp
carnation
CC1
Resilient
johnstwin
NeverToLate
knewbetter
shellybird
fightingback
CJ
Hoping68

All these people are in your corner and helping you.

You are not alone... we all love you !!!


Hope this helps - carnation

(I also hope I did not leave anyone off who has posted to this thread, or mis spell a name)

And the many nameless others who stop by just to check in and say a prayer on a regular basis.

{{{LS}}}

I surely didn't intend to imply that I didn't feel supported HERE! I am so grateful for each an every one of you!

I hope it was clear that I was referring to my real life support network...the actual shoulders that I can get all soggy with my tears and runny nose. (Doesn't that image make you glad that you are all my "virtual" support system!)

Another good morning, actually. I ran the gauntlet from the school to downtown--right through the heart of the north patrol area--without spotting a singe cop car. My heart was a little high in my chest, but I made every light so it went quickly.

I had an appt with my PO this morning, too. When I walked into the office, the lady there (who was so kind when I was in there sobbing right after my sentencing hearing) told me how every time I come in I look so much better and she's so glad to see that. As I walked out of the office on that sentencing date, still sobbing, she stopped me, got up from her desk and walked over toward me, put her hand on my arm and told me that a year from now, I would look at this all like a bad dream. Another angel.

My PO told me to have fun in Chicago and told me that I didn't need to come back until May.

Still feeling refreshed and unencumbered. Still no call from MIL. Still no attempt at breaking Plan B from WH.

I've had a few moments of feeling panicky about that...thinking oh, no, I've turned him over to evil, I did the wrong thing...but then I REMEMBER everything that you all said here yesterday...and I remember how I deserve better, how I can still have a life and be happy...because the person that WH is now is NOT someone I want in my life at ALL.

Again...very deliberately and conciously keeping at the front of my mind that this WH is someone that my H would have considered dispicable. I really miss my H, and wish that he were around to protect me from WH. If he were around, he definately would. He would never have let anyone treat me or our boys with such disregard and inflict such pain on us.

I did send Lisa (my intermediary) an email to let her know that WH had mentioned the cat to DS11...I let her know that the answer to such a request would be NO.

ETA: Thank you, Carn, for really demonstrating how broad my support network is!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You are all so wonderful!

morning, LS!

you sound good this morning.
stay focused and upbeat.....maybe go get a pedicure! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Have fun in Chicago!

My twin went to college there and then lived in the area for about 6 years. I loved visiting him...although I wouldn't recommend taking the express elevator in the Hancock building to anyone with vertigo.

My DS-24 is planning to move there with her friends in October so I'll have a reason to head back the Windy City.

I think you are doing a great job focusing on the truth that this WH isn't your H. Let him be in God's hands. As a mutual friend told me when my WH left, "God will deal with him much more creatively than you ever could." (I instantly thought of Jonah but my WH doesn't spend much time on boats...) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LS,

Still praying for you. Someone posted a link to this video some time back and I frequently listen to it and break down in tears when I remember that God will never leave me. Remember, you are not alone!

http://www.jasonupton.net/com/index...k=view&id=237&Itemid=365

LilSis

H and I had to do a sort-of "plan b" with our son after he turned 18

when he got kicked out of the sober-living home we had arranged for him (he broke the rules and did not stay sober) ... he was kicked out on the streets for 3 days ... we did NOT come to his rescue ... if "Pep" can do that ... LS can do this .... you are being prepared for future tough choices .... today's lessons will be necessary for tomorrow's challenges

My prayer for your husband is this:

~Dear heavenly Father
I pray LilSis's adulterous husband fully experiences the pain of his choices and You bring him to his knees broken and ready to surrender to your will, not his own. God our Father, spare him no pain but death. I pray her WH is as miserable as possible and humbled before you. AMEN~

LilSis ... do not step in to protect WH from God's displeasure .... distance yourself from this process.

God loves YOU and your marriage enough to smack your WH around.

Pep

Sis, can you plan a vacation with the boys...doesn't have to be long, just different. Spring break, a long weekend, the first week off school? The great thing about planning a vacation, is that it is something to look forward to (you and boys), a real get away from your town with all those cop cars and breakfast diners, WH has to wonder what you all are doing without him. Have you and the boys ever gone away without him before?

I believe that if he had to wonder what you were doing and with whom, it would really thrown a monkey wrench into this affair. He has absolutely no fear that you are going to meet someone else. He doesn't have to wonder what life would be like watching you and the kids and someone else enjoying what should be his. He knows you are waiting for him. Now he should wonder and get that gut wrenching pain of the possibility.

Go 180 degrees. He will find out thru MIL or Lisa or someone through the grapevine that you 3 are having the time of your life WITHOUT him.

I did this very thing and it was way out of my comfort zone to travel with only my son (girls were away at school) alone, but we did it AND we had fun AND WH was beside himself. My son and I deserved the treat, and WH deserved the not knowing what the he11 was going on.

Pep:
I am stepping away. My boundary is firm. Not my problem is my new mantra.

I only wish my ILs had your fortitude. My final issue will be with them, sharing how things became intolerable over the past couple of weeks and, as a result, what I need to do to protect myself.

I also wish to express my wish for them to support my need to initiate NC and my hope that they understand my point of view on his continued residence in their home. I don’t know what or how I will express this…but these are JUST MY THOUGHTS ON THE MATTER…NOT WHAT I WILL SAY. (kind of a vent, and a way for me to process my own thinking)

1. To protect myself and my love for WH, I have ended all contact with him. I still love him, and wish for H to return to our family, but at present this person he has become is choosing to pursue another life.

2. I have been clear with him that once he has ended all contact with RT and wishes to rebuild our marriage, I will listen and work with him.

3. I do not wish to know what he is doing or how he is feeling. It is difficult enough as it is. I need these wounds to heal. I also wish for my actions and feelings to remain confidential.

4. I must PROTECT myself and the boys in every way. The boys and I have been victims of his selfishness, disrespect, carelessness and immaturity. I can no longer place myself or the boys in that environment.

5. I firmly believe that WH must live with his choices...ALL OF THEM.

He chose to betray my trust and inflict tremendous pain on me; therefore I choose to be wary of him and no longer consider him a "friend" or as someone who cares for me.

He chose to file for divorce; therefore I choose to protect myself and the boys financially.

He chose to keep pets; and I choose not to care for them while he goes on vacation.

He chose to be an adulterer and do so publicly; therefore I choose to expose his adultery.

He chose to end our marriage and destroy our family; and I chose to fight for it, for as long as I could.

He chose a new life, one without me and as a part-time father in which he behaves in a way that is unrecognizable to me; therefore I choose to end all contact with him.

My choices are NATURAL AND REASONABLE RESPONSES to his behavior. It is not an indictment of who is deep down. The man that I married, the man whom I still believe exists, DEEP DOWN, would have cheered me on. He would NOT want to see me hurt. He would NOT want to see his children suffer. He would NOT want me to put myself in the way of pain and suffering. If he were here, he would protect me. He’s not here, so I have to protect myself.

This is how I need to look at it: What Would H Do?

My choices are consequences of WH's behavior, of choices HE has made. They are NOT punishments.

WH chose to leave our home to begin this new life, to be with a married woman and leave his wife and children. You have chosen to give him shelter in your home for nine months.

As difficult as it may be, my sincere wish is that you also allow WH to experience the natural and reasonable consequence of his choice. He has chosen to leave HIS home and HIS family. He should experience what that truly means. It means the expense of an apartment, of hooking up utilities, of buying furniture.

Only by being forced onto that path will he personally experience how painful and difficult his choice is. It will hit him in the pocketbook. That is not something that he can gloss over, not something that will “work itself out,” not something that others will “get over.” His financial situation is REAL, it is NOW, it is IMMEDIATE, and it is PERSONAL.

I firmly believe that a big dose of reality will hasten his inevitable date with rock bottom. I firmly believe that God will be there for him...ONCE HE HAS NO WHERE ELSE TO TURN.

You love your son. You have compassion for your son. But this man is NOT your son, no more than he is my husband, or N and J’s father.

You have stated that WH needs to "grow up." You have called his behavior "immature."

Yet you have allowed him to return to and live in his childhood home…and he is behaving like a child. His immoral, immature, and selfish behavior CONTINUES UNABATED.

You are ENABLING him remain immature. You are NOT ALLOWING him to feel the NATURAL AND REASONABLE CONSEQUENCE of his choice to leave his home and family. The longer WH avoids these consequences, the longer he can remain in this la-la land of unreality.

Do you remember your son? The man I married? That man would VEHEMENTLY DISCOURAGE YOU from allowing this immature, irresponsible and selfish person to take advantage of your love and compassion.

I ache for the man that I married, and I miss him terribly, as I’m sure you do as well. But the man we see now is NOT HIM. I do not want this stranger to come between us, to prevent me from coming to your home, from sharing holidays and family gatherings with you. But if WH is a constant presence, and I have committed to ending contact for my own protection, that will be another consequence…one that we both will bear.

I do not wish for that to happen.

*******

Again...just my rambling thoughts. Heck, I don't even know if MIL will ever call me again...I haven't heard from her since Weds. about midnight. ????

But it helps for me to be clear in my OWN mind about where I stand on this. Where they stand on it is something I will have to respect and deal with myself.

Sorry for the earlier rant. It makes it seem as if I am fixating on that today...actually I'm not...just wanted to get my thoughts in order and get to a comfortable place with my thinking on the issue. Make sure I had thought it through.

I am not getting any work done today, obviously.

cc1: I thought about spring break...maybe going to visit my sister in the UP. She's going to Florida, though, so that doesn't work. I am fine with traveling with the boys, I've always been pretty independant that way...before we were married and since separation. I have no concerns about driving anywhere on my own.

I just don't have a place to go. I can't afford to do much, and don't really have anyone to visit. Phoenix is a little far! I did think about a trip though...maybe I should give it more thought, maybe try to find some cheap place even if it's not warm...just a get-away, even if it's just for a few days.

Those thoughts should be sent via letter or email to your MIL. They are well said and stated. Clean up as you see fit... but send it... and then release it.

BTW... LILSIS... I am very proud of you.

Here's an idea... my DDs LOVE to go to a motel (even in our own town), watch movies, order pizza, tell stories, and most of all, use the POOL! I'm in MT so those pools are INDOORS. I swim with them or grab a good book and read while they play. We don't do it often due to money constraints but when we do, we all have a blast.

Sometimes just doing something out of the norm is a good stress reliever.

Fox

Sis:

I'm sharing from the perspective of being in your MIL's shoes. My son is not a wayward. He's not even married..but he has the sweetest GF whom I like a lot. She wants a commitment from him and he is working on that BUT..He is difficult and has many personal issues that he needs to work on...Bottom line..I support her and admire her ability to be in a relationship with him... I think I would be LIKE your MIL if he were married to her...

That being said...

If you were MY DIL you would LOSE me if I at all felt that you were trying to CONTROL ME or to TELL ME WHAT I SHOULD DO IN THE PARENTING OF MY SON...I fully understand your position but I would feel like you were being DISRESPECTFUL of my ability to take care of HIM and to do what's best for HIM. You would be stepping into the MOTHER ROLE and I would want you to remain his WIFE.

You see what I mean at all?




The YOU..YOU..comments would really bother me. I think as long as you talked about YOURSELF and how YOU FEEL it might be OK...such as "In my opinion, letting him stay in your house is not helpful....Otherwise, I would feel like you were trying to control ME in a condescending way...."I would be thinking: "I am his MOTHER. What gives you the right to tell ME how to treat MY SON. I will do as I choose."


But maybe this is JUST ME...

I just wanted to share this with you in case your MIL might have the same reaction.

I am a father Lilsis and I would appreciate that type of communication. I would hold my son accountable for his actions no matter his age or place in life.

This is just my opinion... but I think you SHOULD communicate the stuff and then release it. Hopefully it will get through but you cannot expect that it will. As far as I am concerned with EVERYTHING in life... I believe in doing the right thing and letting the chips fall where they may.

ETA...if she asked "who are you?" Your reponse would simply be his wife.... the woman that is supposed to come before all others in his life... including his mom.