Sis:



I'm not going to let you off the hook yet..cause I see our job as being to help you with RECOVERY of YOURSELF and prayerfully of YOUR MARRIAGE....

IMO, you MAY be going in the wrong direction.



You want to go back to THIS PLACE? Of living in DENIAL? of living in a FAIRYTALE LAND?

If you go back to such A PLACE, you will not be MOTIVATED to WORK AS HARD AS CAN BE HOURLY AND DAILY ON YOURSELF OR YOUR MARRIAGE!! I'm THANKFUL that I no longer take my H or my relationship FOR GRANTED and to think that I am just ENTITLED to HIS LOVE..and that our relationship will MAGICALLY WORK...

I don't buy that you have been ROBBED. You have been WOUNDED for sure..but you have not been ROBBED. You can take this experience to use it to become a BETTER PERSON. CHOOSE TO BE GRATEFUL..don't wait for it to happen over time...MAKE THAT CHOICE TODAY...



If you saw my H today, he has his RING on his FINGER. In fact, it's the ring he got in our marital ceremony 30 plus years ago. He pawned the newest ring...and if you saw US, you would think that we have been this HAPPY ALWAYS..Yes, you are making assumptions. My grandparents were married for 71 years and I am positive NOW that my grandfather had an affair with someone very close to my grandmother...and my grandmother used to try to warn me about my sense of entitlement of my husband...now I know why....




This is FAIRYTALE STUFF.. What are TYPICAL UPS AND DOWNS? Who has TYPICAL UPS AND DOWNS? I don't wish for that because I don't believe in that...WE ALL HAVE OUR UPS AND DOWNS...and NOBODY IS THE SAME...

Back to the tree ~ Along the same lines as what is being said today about hope - Can you look at the tree as hope - watch it as it grows - as you grow...

HOPE for the future....

Mimi is on to a very good topic here.

Its "illusion."

You've had your illusions shattered. I think prior to these affairs we ALL lived rather naively and in a state of illusion.

Now, we see the truth. And personally I would never want to go back to my pre-affair state of mind.

I got knocked off my pedestal. And you know what? NOBODY belongs on a pedestal. Nobody.

You see an older couple. And you IMAGINE a history for them. But you know what? You don't have any idea of how much heartache or misery they may have been through. You are ASSUMING that they have been happily married for 50 years. But far more likely, they haven't been. They had the ups and downs any of us have had. They may have survived affairs, deaths, financial catastrophies....whatever!

Lilsis -- I know I would rather have 1 year of a REAL/HONEST/TRUE relationship than 25 years of an illusion.

LilSis:

Plant the wisteria, and/or ask the boys to have thier father plant it, if you haven't already done it.

Mimi is being blunt with you today. Remember that Mimi has been there and done that. She wants you to avoid the same mistakes she made over and over again. (OK, maybe not over and over!)

LS: You are doing well. Doubts are expected. Time to throw in the towel? No.

It took you 12 years to get to Dday. What's another year of waiting? You are growing and becoming a better person.

Your father died recently, and that caused you much pain and suffering. But you lost your father.

This process? This pain and suffering?

LS will be stronger.
LS will be wiser.
LS is becoming a rock and center for her children.
LS will have friends, new ones/old ones, that she can rely on.
And in the end, LS may have a new H back. Not old, WH. New H. With a different, and changed perspective that loves/values and cares for LS.

That is the HOPE. Please note the first 4. They are under your control. Number 5, is up to H.

So do not lose HOPE.

I told you previously where I probably would have been if I had made a different choice. You can have HOPE that H will return.

And I really like your sense of humor (going dark...Utilities...)

Because in all other things, this indicates to me that you are getting ready for the future...

LG

I got knocked off my pedestal. And you know what? NOBODY belongs on a pedestal. Nobody.
_______________________________

i like that one Lexy.
good one to remember when i feel i am not measuring up to some ideal.

LilSis:

Lexxxy is getting it right.

We both rolled hand grenades into our M.

We tried to blow them up.

From that expolosion came reality/honesty and openness in our respective marriages that did not exist before.

Would I want to go back to the Pre-A marriage? Before illusions and the naviete were blown away? No. Because that M wasn't working.

Would I have liked to have found MB before I found the OW. You Betcha.

I can not erase all the hurt/pain/confusion/sadness caused to Flamingo before dday and afterward. I can only construct a more honest M. And with MB, we are getting there. I would have liked this M first.

That is what to hope for. WH needs to lose the fight with H. And when he does, you will have a chance at a really great M.

LG

EXACTLY!!! I want NO MORE of that ILLUSION!!!

Thank-you, Lexx....this was really helpful for me for you to put it this way...SOOO TRUE FOR ME....

------------------------------------------------------------

You (and others here) are BLESSED by the WORDS OF WISDOM of Lexx and LG as FWSes...

I think my H would really, really concur with them on this perspective...

Plus, if you do RECOVER, it will not be ROSY for many months and months to come...your WH will need to know, you will need to know that you can handle the NASTINESS AND UGLINESS of it ALL....

I guess this morning was a little pity part for moi. I'm really okay...and I agree that I wouldn't want the pre-A marriage back. I couldn't, because I'm not the same person that I was pre-A.

Miss P is pretty much gone.
I'm not afraid of failure (so much).
I've given myself permission to make mistakes.
I've given other people in my life permission to make mistakes.
I know that I am a survivor, and that I have courage.

I guess on a day like today, when I'm feeling overwhelmed and stressed and running around taking care of this and dropping off that...THIS is when the illusion looks pretty nice. "Wouldn't it be wonderful if *I* had the doting, handsome husband who pitched in, who brought me flowers, etc."

I know it's an illusion, and I think of constantly. I see a stranger walking down the street, and I think to myself, "LS, you have no idea the stories that person is carrying around inside. No clue." It's fascinating to me.

We all do such a wonderful job of putting on facades. I think of all the ultra-competent women at work, and some of the horrific things they have been through: divorces, a stabbing, affairs, cancer, adoptions, family members with addictions, deaths...we are all suffering in our own way.

So I do like being off the pedestal and down with the unwashed masses. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And I guess the only way to get off the pedestal is to get knocked off in some really awful way.

I wish H could be down here with me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But I'm doing okay. I'm moving ahead, and it does feel a bit like slogging through the mud, looking ahead to the nice, green pastures. The day-to-day living stuff, hectic craziness of life with a house, a job and two kids...feels like I get stuck sometimes, but in reality, if I look back and see how far I've come, I'm doing okay.

So...new post-it for the mirror? (thanks, LG):
Stronger
Wiser
Better mom
Better friend, sister, daughter

These are the gifts that this experience has given me so far. And there is absolutely every reason to beleive that there are more to come. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So that's HOPE, right? Hope for ME. And hope for a happier marriage, if H is able to scratch and claw his way out.


BTW...LK logged into her work email because she was dying to read what WH wrote. The gist was the utility thing, and informing me that he was no longer direct depositing $ into the joint account.

She responded with "OK"

Her thinking....the less said, the better. And "ok" gives him nothing to go on...it's not argumentative, it's not emotional, it's nothing...just agreement. How very frustrating.

Apparently he also said that he had respected my request to use an intermediary, but with financial issues, he thought it should be discussed directly. I assume that since the reply comes from LK, he'll get the message on that one, too.

So....what about LG's suggestion to have the boys ask him to help plant the tree? (Actually, it will be a chore for me, because our soil is very rocky and it's in one of those big 8 gallon containers. I'd have to dig a crater.)

AND...speaking of hope. A quote from the dedication in the poetry book that DS11 gave me for Mother's Day (it was a class assignment, but he was so delighted):
And third, but definitely not least, you have me hope. As your loving son, I ask you, please do not give up hope.

Okay, there's my darn answer. I see where everyone was going today...I'm with you. Thanks!

I know exactly what you mean by this--I have the same concerns and struggles. You're speaking my mind.

And, because I think this is appropriate for you (as well as me), I'll include this again:

Acutally this is a BIG NO-NO..meets a FAMILY COMMITMENT NEED.."I'm still doing my duty as a H although I'm a WAYWARD"...

Remember in PLAN B..he no longer exists..

In PLAN B, he needs to SUFFER..SUFFER..the LOSS of FAMILY ACTIVITIES....

Much, much better for you to do this yourself or find someone else to do it for you...

Ask "Uncle P" to help you plant the tree.
Or some other "friend" of WH.

(Another person who has to shoulder WH's responsibilities because WH has abandoned his wife and children. So WH can feel the shame....)

I totally agree! What are ya thinkin'??? He would get a huge fix from that and it would last him quite a while. Please don't even think of including him in anything like this unless and until he meets your Plan B conditions.
Mulan

You are all right. I'm rapping my own fingers with a ruler at this very moment!

Thanks, sd. It's good to know someone is feeling the same way....not that I WANT you to feel this way...

I had a thought..

Obviously he remembered that you loved those trees...and that you love to garden. He must have put thought into this gift..no?

Yes, he did put thought into the gift. I asked the boys where they got it from and DS11 said that dad had gotten it before they went there for the weekend...he had asked the boys about it when he had them on Tuesday.

He probably got the same thing for his mom.

Whoever said it was right...WH is trying to get the familiy commitment need met...making sure the cable doesn't get cut off, buying plants. We would always spend a lot of time working out in the yard, getting plants, doing a garden. But there's no saying he can't get that same need met with RT...

You and the kids are his family...RT will NEVER be able to meet his need for Family Committment.

I agree with the others that you should find someone else to help, ideally a friend of WH as Lexxy suggested. I can tell you as a man and father that it would just eat him up inside.

Gang:

Just so you don't think I'm a clod.

About the plant.

It would meet the family commitment thing.

It would also point out that "LS" didn't want to plant it.

I like dark plan B's. I also think leaving a light on can't hurt. That there is a way home. AS dark as we are, we are not unreachable. But that you can not come into the light without punching the ticket properly.

Remember in the first post about this, I asked why WS give a BS something that needs miantenance. Rats/Plants, etc.

So, by the reason of staying dark, LS should leave it whereever it was delivered to the house. Not water it. Not Move it. Not DO ANYTHING.

Watch it die.

Right? Wouldn't that be more Plan B?

So, that's why I asked. If you ain't going to kill it, then, you can make it a signpost, somewhere on the road to recovery, if that road is ever started with this WH.

WH buys plant for LS. LS asks the boys to have the WH and boys plant it in an appropriate place. She can even pass something thru LK.

One day, in the future, the plant blooms. And maybe one day H is there to see that happen.

And that is my point.

Let it die, or find a way to make it a point that it is a family thing. One that LS shouldn't be involved in except on the very edge. And never seen.

So, LS and the boys can plant it, even LS and Unkle P. But if LS plants it, WH sees it everyday. Not very plan B, right? So, get the boys and WH to do it.

OK?

LG

Couple of things...

Seems to me that by getting the plant, WH doesn't see the possibility that one day Lil Sis may "move on" -- outta that house, on to another. A plant is a commitment to a home. A wisteria is a clinging vine, right? Hmmm...

I agree with LG. WH may need a visual roadmap... a nudge... of a type. Little boys will be SO excited to see THEIR gift to Mom planted. Gives dad an opportunity to explain how they have to CARE for it, WATER it, etc. for it to thrive. Maybe it'll ring his bell??

Or maybe not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> WE all KNOW that I'm not a pro when it comes to this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I like what LG said and the idea of leaving a light on.

I just described on my thread doing something similar--reminding my WW that there is a way home. I don't know if it was a mistake or not.

I think I've read that Steve Harley recommends reaching out to the WS every so often--is that written down anywhere? I know that Jennifer has told me to say it from time to time (This is not what I want; the door is still open).

Little bit about Plan B from a WS perspective....

At first, WH went along with your "demands", but with a very patronizing tone. Like he would put up with your requests, because he didn't think it would bug him to have no contact with you (after all, thats the whole concept of divorce, right?)

After a few weeks of this, he's finding he doesn't like having to air his dirty laundry in front of your friend. Even though logically he would assume that you are telling your friends about this stuff -- its a whole different deal when he has to be the one doing it. It was heresay before -- he could deny the rumors or downplay his behavior. Now he has to parade it in front of L.

Someone might say to him: I hear you're not paying the bills.
And he could say: Oh, sis was having trouble with that but I helped her out.

Now he has to directly say to L: I'm not paying the bills.
Whole different feel to that....

And, he's not able to work on you. He can't get your cooperation or buy-in on the "friendly divorce".
He can't tell anyone that "we're getting divorced, but we're still good friends..." (which has become the most popular thing on the planet these days....)

Because the facts prove otherwise -- you're not even speaking to him! He doesn't get to sit by you at the concert or conferences or the PTA meetings. Which is what he would do to show the world that everything is **OK**.

And having everyone be **ok** is his goal. If mommy and daddy can laugh and joke and hang out, then he is better able to sell this to the kids. As in: see kids? mommy is fine. we're all happier now!

And...he can't control what you are telling people. He doesn't get any input. He can't twist the story. He can't work on you to lighten up. With things this way -- he is 100% the BAD GUY. Its all HIS FAULT.

And...he's picturing being replaced. (this has something to do with my Tom-Selleck suggestion) He has a very great fear of being replaced by a better person whom everyone will love more than they ever loved him!

So in contrast -- he has RT. Whom everyone dislikes and has a very negative attitude towards. (don't deceive yourself here sis...MIL will not be easy on her.) WH and RT have a very ugly history and story.
Think about this -- how many times over the years did you tell the "how we met" story? You and your husband meet some new friends -- and share the story of how you met, dated, married etc. How ugly is that story for WH and RT??? And if either of them try to dress it up, they both know its still an ugly rat underneath!!!

Meanwhile -- you. You get a fresh start. You have grown and stretched and worked. And now its all going to pay off for you. You get the fairy tale. You meet someone new, and because of your growth -- you have VERY high standards. And the new person you choose to be with is phenomenal!! He's awesome. You treat each other so well! Everyone just loves him. And they are so happy for your happiness -- BECAUSE YOU DESERVE IT, and they know what you've been through!

The boys hate RT. She destroyed their family - and they know it.

But the boys love your new guy. He's great to their mom. He's great to them. Finally there is a man around who pays attention to them -- everyday.

And WH is on the outside....looking at what he's lost.