So I found out, when my WH (:-() was mad at me for NO reason, that he is 'dating'. I feel like my stomach has been torn out of me, and I cannot breathe. It is horrible. Only a week ago he told me he missed me, and he hoped that I could forgive him for all of his lies, and behavior towards me. Then he either met someone that weekend when he went drinking, or the guilt of seeing someone was choking him. I do not know. We are separated, one of the things that he said he would NEVER do is date or see anyone else until he either had filed for a D, or we were D. I ACTUALLY BELIEVED HIM. I had to leave work today, and go to the doctor because I thought that I was going to have a heart attack. I have been having anxiety attacks about all of this since he was gone, I had gotten better, but since he told me that, I am worse than ever. The one thing that really made me not totally freak out was the fact that everytime I 'checked' or had someone check on him, he was with his guy friends. Now I have just heard from a mutual friend that they had called my H to go out and he said that he couldn't, he had plans with a 'lady'. I almost got sick. I tried to act all casual, yeah, I know, but inside I was screaming... my doctor put me on an anti-anxiety and depression medicine. She also advised me that I should NOT file for a D until my mood stabalizes, and I can think clearly. What is terrible is that ALL I can think about is him with another woman, and it it making me feel sick.

I am so upset that he did not file for a D first to at least show me THAT respect, or at least tell me, and not confuse me, that there REALLY was no hope, so we should hash it out and then file. I am so upset. I had gotten past the upset stage (until this). I was more confused, than upset. Now I am just HURT. I feel like I have a hole in my chest.

He has the girls this weekend, and I called to tell them goodnight. I asked to talk to him about a medical thing with one of our D's, and he actually had the audacity to hint around that he would like to go out to this 'party' that his friend was having, and he did not have anyone to watch the girls. He had called my sister to see if she could, and she had not gotten back to him. It is tomorrow. My mind was screaming, "are you out of your mind???? You have now agreed to only see the kids, your beloved kids that you always said that you could not live without, only once every 2 weeks, and now you need someone to watch them so you can go out????? And do you really think that I am stupid enough to OFFER to watch them, when you told me this week that you are DATING???" I did not say anything. He brought it up again, "yeah, I have not heard from your sister, so I guess that I can't go." I told him, "sorry, I do not know what to tell you, I have to go." GRRRRRRRR.

I am so hurt, I am so sad, I feel so defeated, angry, and sick. I feel obsessed now. "Why? Why? Why????" I packed up the rest of his stuff that was in the house, put it in the garage, my friend is coming over to change the locks on the house tomorrow (he still has a key that I JUST gave him because I thought we were moving somewhere better.)

Any coping techniques that I can use??? I am in shock and awe, and the medicine does not seem to be helping me yet, it could take 2 weeks!
Thanks for any advice....

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. It sounds like you are doing the best thing, which is to take control of the situation. Packing up his stuff and changing the locks is a very good idea when he's already moved out and is blantantly disrespecting you. You should NOT just have to sit there and take it.

You might also see if you can get to an attorney tomorrow - yes, Saturday - and have a legal separation agreement drawn up to further protect you. An attorney should be able to get something that states your WH is NOT allowed to have your children around his girlfriends - and maybe you can make arrangements to keep the children with you while he is "dating".

Something else that may help - strange as it sounds - is to accept the fact that he has chosen to be a Wayward Spouse and accept the fact that yes, he IS seeing other women. This is what they do and in a strange way it will keep you from obssessing about it and trying to find out what he's doing, where he is, etc. You are absolutely right not to want a WH in your life.

You can also call your physician tomorrow, or even go to an emergency room or urgent care center, and explain what you are going through and that you need something *now* to help with the anxiety and panic attacks.

So - you are doing all the right things by getting the WH out of your life. Good. Tomorrow, you can try calling an attorney even if it is Saturday and start getting legal protection for you and your children. Take steps to protect your finances - if you have a joint account, open your own and put half the joint account money in it so that he can't touch it. And you can talk to a doctor somewhere and tell them what has happened.

There is help out there. You have already done the very best thing by taking some action. The more steps you take, the more protected you will feel and the more shielded you will be from his cruelty and disrespect. And keep posting here; just remember that it always slows down on the weekends.

hang in there. you can do this.
Mulan

I wish I had any solid advice for you. I am too going through something like this. I found out about my STBXW's A about 5 months ago, then filed for a D, did the sep agreement and the parenting plan, and took the kids out with me.

The WW seems to enjoy not having those pesky kids around her so much. Gave me custody and ran for the hills. I was dropping them off at her place, and she then dropped the bomb on me... my boyfriend is inside. I almost stroked out right there. Talk about pain. To me, it finalized the part of our divorce, that my pain, my anguish, and my sorrow meant nothing to her, and her betraying me even benefited her in many ways. It hurt so bad, I was up all freaking night, couldn't close my eyes. I know your pain.

Next weekend, she dropped another bomb on me... yes, that is right, after dating for 2 or 3 months, they are engaged... going to be married soon. Confusion and torment all at the same time, all the progress I made over the last 4 months, all gone, but I got through it much faster this time.

My advice... get a lawyer, get one as soon as you can. A lawyers job is to take the pressure off you.
Get a notebook and start writing all the visitation stuff down, when he is supposed to watch the d's and didn't... document it all as soon as you can.
Find a support group in your area, and go out and meet other people that have gone through things like you. I met some tonight for the first time, and everyone there being so much further down the road than me, had a lot of advice for me.

Faith and hope, get through today, then work on tomorrow... all you really can do.

Exercise. Meditation. Yoga.

An anti-anxiety med like alprazolam (Xanax) will help take the edge off.

Do something fun for yourself. Treat yourself to something. Get a massage, or maybe a day at the spa. Do something you used to enjoy pre-marriage and kids now but gave up.

One step at a time. One foot in front of the other. Be strong for your kids. Hang in there.

Mulan, Kuky, Sdguy,

Thanks for the advice. I am a little better today...
I did get some anti-anxiety meds. The doctor gave me 2 things, one that I will be on for the next 3-6 months, and the other for the next 2 weeks until the first one kicks in.

I am going to go out tomorrow night with some work friends that I never went out with, so it should be nice (I hope).

I am just sitting here, staring at the walls, and feeling LOST without my girls, even though I normally crave a break from them. All I planned for this weekend was to pack up the rest of his stuff, and it surprisingly was not much stuff left, and for whatever silly reason, THAT made me sad. His dresser was sitting there in our bedroom, empty, the entire time he was gone, and it JUST occurred to me that I could use it. That was sad. I stayed at work a little late today and got things done that I have been putting off, but I cannot live at work. I have things that I need to do at home... except I just do not seem to WANT to yet......

Thanks again. I am going to use the next 2 weeks to try to get over obsessing about him, and "WHY, WHY, WHY???" I put a small note on my phones that says, "If he wanted to call you, he would". reminding me NOT to call him. When I catch myself thinking, "if only...." I am quickly telling myself, "it takes 2, if he really wanted to stay and work things out, he would have." Small comfort, but it is the truth, and if I stop deluding my self with the sometimes 'nice guy' that was popping out, I will be ok.

Unfortunately, I still did the things that I enjoyed before getting married... none of them bad :-) So I still have those things... I just miss having someone, I miss my old H, that was so sweet. I cannot even imagine going out with anyone else, or even being interested! What is it about some people that when they are committed to people they MEAN IT, (like me) and they take it seriously... it seems like less and less people take M or committments seriously anymore. It is so hard to just move on. I really thought that we would grow old together. I never even would give ANYONE the chance to think that I was interested... I was married. Now I feel stupid for being so loyal. To him. But, what doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.

Thanks again. :-(

Sadmo,

I am sorry for the pain your are in and glad you are feeling a little better today.

You have received some really good advice here...




Taking good care of yourself can help you cope.

I know that it's difficult and counter-intuitive at a time when things are so rough, but taking actions can help change the feelings, rather than succumbing to the emotions. Waiting around until you feel like doing these things can aid in keeping you stuck there.


It sounds like you are working on acceptance. That's a good thing.


I understand.

You are not stupid for being loyal. It is a sign of good character on your part to honor your commitment...not stupidity.

Frozen-

Thanks. I need to remember that being loyal is a sign of good character. Sometimes I just do not know when to STOP being so loyal, at least to my H, who no longer deserves it.

I also went through all of my old e-mails today, ones from when all of this started with my H, and I would send him these sad, pathetic e-mails asking him to please do more to help our marriage, then they turned into anger - you do not help our marriage- then they turned to FURY at him for STILL doing the things that were hurting our marriage. My point in this is all the while I have been sitting here, keening over the fact that he does not want to save our M, I FORGOT how unhappy I was with him, and how I REALLY DID have a reason to be unhappy. I had ALMOST convinced myself that the destruction of the M WAS MY FAULT.

I am now glad that I went through my old e-mails, it hit home. I am sure after the hurt goes away, it will be for the best for me, and the kids. It still hurts though.

Have you read about Plan A or have you already made a decision that Plan D (divorce) is right for you?

Have you exposed his affair?

Ever considered plan B? Your mind and heart needs to be in sync 1st.

L.

Frozen-
I tried the 'plan a' thing, but what I found is that if you are tying to change your bad behavior, and someone is constantly pushing your buttons, it is REALLY hard to do.

And I do not mean just pushing buttons on little things,
but things that were just rude (like saying that he wanted to go out, then he checked his phone several times, cut the night short, did not dress appropriately, etc. - when I was in a good mood, it was not like I had done anything to 'set him off' to the downright mean- This past Monday he had agreed to watch the kids so I could have some time to do something, he 'forgot', got mad at me for 'ruining his plans', vowed to 'never watch the kids or help me out again, since I 'duped' him into watching the kids' and was just a total jerk to me, because, I feel, he CAN be. This is also the night that he told me that he is 'dating'

I have given him license to treat me like dirt because I felt bad about how we had gotten in our M, how I had not been (not that he was blameless at all!) nice all of the time. I was trying to show him that I would not get so caught up in my anger towards situations, and I would calm down a little. But it is now occurring to me that he did not respect me, or what I believed in, ever. It became his way or forget it. How can you not get mad when someone disrespects you? I have mad a lot of progress with my anger. But now, as I see the progress I made, it has a lot to do with the fact that he is not setting me off, because he is not around. He basically turned into a passive aggressive jerk, that was holding a grudge against me, because, I WANTED OUR M TO WORK, AND WOULD DO ANYTHING TO SAVE IT, and he would not do anything because he was mad at me. Actually, I do not know why, but this is what I feel the reason was. I really think that he is just too much of a coward to file for a D. I think that he just wanted out, and instead of getting out 100%, he thought he would leave the door open, a little, just in case. I asked him, begged him, pleaded with him, got mad at him, "If you do not want to be married to me anymore, PLEASE do me the favor of just filing for the D, so that I can stop hoping and trying, and I can move on. You know that I will do whatever it takes to save the M." His response, several times, "Ok, I will file then." He never did. If I asked him why he hadn't I got a myriad of reasons: He is lazy, it is not that big of a deal, he can stay married to me forever and live like this, it is not like he is planning on getting remarried, let's give it more time, what is the hurry, he is afraid that I will hurt myself or the kids (I told him NOT to flatter himself), the list goes on and on...It would mean that he could not go and lament to his friends about what a B*tch I am. Maybe he actually WANTED the D... He has told anyone that will listen, except me, that he did not want a D. But he has not done one thing to help it get better. For a long time after we seperated, he told anyone in both of our families, "I love her, I would do anything to save our M, I just think that she has problems". I actually started to think I had problems- funny my 'problems' went away after he did.

I tried the Plan A thing. As soon as we would start seeming to get closer, he would pull one of his infuritating little stunts to show me that I could not just 'relax and go with the flow' EX. we make plans to go out to dinner (his idea) he shows up, not ready to go. Says that he thought we could just spend some time with the kids, I meanwhile thought that we were going out, and was dressed to go out, and was looking forward to going out. I ask him what changed, he tells me that his mom is out of town and can't watch the kids. I tell him that is funny, she did not say that to me earlier. I tell him that I will call her to see. I call her, and yep, she is at home, still able to watch the kids. A MILLION TIMES OVER. How is a person in my situation supposed to be calm, and easy going when they never know what is going on???? I am not a fly by my seat all of the time type of gal, I like to know if I am going out to dinner, that I am going out to dinner. And I HATE, just HATE being lied to. I have a very low tolerance for lies, and he got caught up in them about everything.

There were just a lot of lies, I just do not know what to believe anymore. Right now I no longer have any love for him in my heart. My heart is wounded. I have been terribly betrayed by him, not just with his 'date' but with a lot of things that he said he would do, but didn't do.

I feel that if dealing with him warranted a trip to my doctor (might I say I NEVER go to the doctor) I really need to evaulate WHY I would want this man back, who has been hurting, and confusing me so much for a long time now.

I am going to throw in the old towel, hang up the white flag, and admit defeat at saving my M. But, on the bright side, I think that I will save my sanity. I will stop wondering, and thinking (in time I know :-)) about what, why, when, how could he treat me this way... and I can make myself, and my girls happy, in a nice stable home.

So, for today at least, I think that a D is the best option. It PAINS me to do it for a lot of reasons. Hence the increased panic attacks. But, at least this way I will know WHAT is going on, there will be no more suprises, and I can finally extinguish that little flicker of hope. Plus, I will reclaim my self again. I had turned into an angry person towards my H before he left. I am almost back to the fun happy person I was. Unfortunately, the longer I play the "one minute I am nice, the next I am a huge jerk, let me see how you will react" game with him, the longer it will take for me to become happy, consistantly happy, again.

As for the plan B, I was going to do it, but what is the point? I think that I need to move on, he made himself clear, and I need to respect that he does not want to work things out. He has had chances to make things right with me, or at least try to (through counseling, spending time with me, not lie, etc.) and he has not done anything. I think that he is alternately happy that he left me, and then he is filled with guilt that he left me. It will be easier for both of us if I have not reason to want to be with him, and I just let him go. I really do not think that he is SAD that he left me. I think that when he is feeling guilty is when he says that he wants to be 'good friends' with me. But, I do not want to just be his friend. I am not able to be just his friend. So therefore, I will cut off all contact with him (except once a week to touch basis on when he is watching the kids) and call it a day. I know that I tried, as well as I could. It is just sad, and I worry about my kids being from a broken home.

As far as telling everyone about his A, everyone seemed surprised, his friends, his family, my family. Not one person said that they knew he was seeing anyone, EVERYONE was shocked and could not believe it. Even his friends, ones that I think that I can trust. So at least that made me feel good that after the fact everyone did not come running to me to tell me that they knew...

I am tired. I am rambling. Thanks again for the advice. Who knew that a racing mind could be so tiring?
:-)

The plans are for you NOT the WS.

The plans are for you to cope.

L.

Sad,

I think we are married to the same man <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> or brothers.
Alot of what you said the way your H was treating you is behavoirs my WH does to me.
He knew how to really make me angry... the right buttons to push. He would say to me last summer that I was being so good why.... because my M and family is important to me. He even admitted to me he would purposefully (if that's a word) instigate fights with me.

No other advice but to stay strong

Still

What you describe is textbook Passive/Aggressive behaviour. He's using these tactics on you because they work.

Please look at both the links in my sig line, especially the first one. There is a lot you can do to deal with this if you've got the stomach for it.

Please read the links and see what you think. Several BS here are dealing with or have dealt with Passive/Aggresssive spouses and we can help you with this.
Mulan

Reading your story, I'm curious why you want him at all. Has the whole marriage been like this?

Mulan,
Thanks. I did read the links, and I did get the book, "living with the passive aggressive man". I was trying to not take the bait, and it would work for a while, but then, I just cannot NOT take it sometimes. In the book it does not really paint a good picture, unless the PA does acknowlegde that THEY have a problem with it. So far my H will not say, nor does he seem to think that he is doing anything wrong.

I am just sickened by the thought of him with someone else, and I do not think that there is anything that I can do to turn things around, so that I would be happy too. I feel like I was pretty much becoming a doormat.

Is your S P/A? If you were me, how would you deal with this?
I am just concerned that if I put a label on his behavior, I am excusing it, and I do not think that it should be. I also think, by the way that he is acting, that maybe he REALLY did not want to be married to me, and is just afraid to let go, and he feels guilty about hurting me, when I was basically a good wife...

But, then again, I do not really know, nor will I probably ever really know. It is all just speculation.

So, if you think that he is PA, what would get through to him, if anything? I just do not have a clue.

Thanks!

Believer,
No, the whole M was not like this at all. Not at all. We were very happy together, of course we had our fights, not too bad though. Our M starting going downhill after our first child was born. Not too bad. But when the second one came, actually before, it was in a pretty bad state. It was like he could not deal with all of the responsibility of being a father, husband, and a job. So he decided to cut me off. I hated it, especially since we used to do everything together. Then he started to always go out W/O me, and the rest is history.

The reason that I had wanted him back was that at one time he was a great H. We were very close, and did things together. It is just that he could not seem to see that we needed to work on spending more time together, or talking about problems. The more I tried to get him to talk, or work something out, the more he resisted. The funny thing is, if I had found this site a lot earlier, there may have been a chance. He kept telling me that in order for him to want to spend time with me, I needed to be pleasant. But I usually was the one that would have to make the plans, get a sitter, and then I would get mad that I had to make all of the plans, it did not make me feel loved. I told him a thousand times that I did not feel that he cared for me when he went out all of the time, I did not feel like he loved me. He never stopped, because, "you nag too much".
He is a completely different person than when we first started to date, and when we got married. It is too bad.

I am just sad that it ended this way, and that he alienated me, my family, some of our friends, his family... No one thinks that he seems like the same person that they once knew. I asked him to go to IC to see if maybe they would be able to help him through whatever it is that he is going through, and he just laughed and said that if anyone ever needed it, it would be me.

I think that my love bank for him is 0 now. I just feel betrayed. Sigh.

Sad - here are three earlier posts on the subject of P/A behaviour and what the experts say you can do about it. I *have* found them to be effective, though it takes time and, like I've said, you've got to have the stomach for it. I'm reposting them for you here for what it's worth.

*********************************************************
The Definition of Passive/Aggressive Behavior by Mulan:

P/A behaviour is using PASSIVE and seemingly harmless actions in a deliberately AGGRESSIVE manner to control, manipulate, or just plain hurt someone else.

If you ask them to DO something and they seem to make a point of NOT doing it - forgetting, dragging their feet, making excuses, etc. -

If you ask them NOT to do something and they seem to make a point of DOING it - it's a coincidence, you don't understand, I didn't do it to hurt you -

That's Passive/Aggressive behaviour.

People do this for several reasons:

1) 1) They have an extreme aversion to being controlled. They believe they will be consumed if they become a partner to someone, so they control you before you can "control" them.

2) To do as they please and avoid the consequences.

3) All of the above.

Practically everybody in an affair employs P/A behaviour, but some are a lot worse than others and keep it up throughout the relationship. It's the same way that some people might have a glass of wine at dinner but others become full-blown falling-down drunks.

Recognizing this behavior is the first step to sanity and personal recovery. This stuff will leave you stark screaming crazy if you don't understand what it is (BT, DT, GTTS).

How I Dealt With A Passive/Aggressive Spouse by Mulan

I spent six years on MB and got nowhere until I understood what I was really dealing with. Then things changed almost overnight. The MB principles could not and did not work until the passive/aggressive behavior was addressed, and THEN they could work.

My #1 EN is honesty and openness. He is P/A. How do ya think THAT was working?!

This is what I said to WH once I understood that the real problem in our relationship was the P/A behavior and his belief that I was trying to "control" him:

First, I truly and seriously acknowledged that he really did feel "controlled" when I wanted to use POJA. He would snarl, "That feels like control!" I said, "I know it does. I know that's how it makes you feel. (NO SARCASM! I REALLY MEANT THIS!) And I also know that there is nothing I can say that will change your mind on that. I can only show you how POJA works by trying it on some things. If you want to try it, you can let me know."

Second, I truly and seriously acknowledged that I did NOT want to control him in any way. I wanted a WILLING partner, not a child to control or an animal on a leash. And if he did not want to be a willing partner to me, the last thing I wanted was to keep on pushing to be a partner to me, since I really did NOT want to control him.

Therefore, I would no longer expect to go anywhere or do anything at HIS events - you know, things he plans or wants to do - because that obviously made him feel stuck with me and obligated to bring me along (and therefore controlled.) If he wanted to keep on going to movies and ball games and on trips without me, that was fine, because I really did NOT want to control him this way and I would MUCH rather find something else to do without him. (AND I MEANT THIS).

Furthermore, I would no longer expect him to show up at MY events, either. (I am a novelist and sometimes go to book signings, conferences, conventions, etc. He was always invited and I wanted him there, but at the last one he dragged his butt to the event and behaved so horribly to me that I swore I'd never invite him again.) I told him I'd learned my lesson from that particular event. If my inviting him made him feel "controlled," in that he felt obligated to show up or I'd be upset, then I did NOT want him to even consider going. I'd go alone and have a perfectly fine time without him. (AND I MEANT THIS.)

I cannot tell you what a difference this has made. We are going to Disneyland next week, just the two of us.

The weekend after that, I have another conference where I am doing a writers' workshop and speaking on several panels as well as going to the parties Saturday night. I simply told him when it was and that I would be at such-and-such hotel all day Saturday and Sunday (staying in a room I paid for on Saturday night.) I said nothing at all about him going, just politely informed him that that's where I would be if anyone needed to get hold of me. And I really did not expect him to go. If he hadn't, I fully intended to go alone and enjoy the event and just let him do what he wanted - and maybe wonder about what I was doing! But he has insisted on coming along, wants to know what he should wear, etc.

The difference is like day and night. And it happened when I just suddenly and completely dropped the reins and let the horse run off if it wanted to. But guess what! The critter ran for a bit, and then circled around and came right back home.

You can do the same. There are no guarantees that it will work. It relies on the fact that you ARE willing to walk away from the marriage if he cannot and will not stop the P/A behavior. But he can't push on you if you aren't pushing on him - and THAT is what makes all the difference.

I was not able to walk away before I understood P/A behaviour. But I could now, since I DO understand it. And boy has THAT ever made a difference.

Here's the tough love part. Your H is right. You ARE trying to control him. You ARE still trying to push and pressure him into being an honest non-P/A man. And that will NEVER, EVER, work.

Try doing what I did - try telling your H that you DON'T want to control him and if that's how your actions make him feel (and they do!), then you will STOP ALL OF THEM RIGHT NOW. Thank him for letting you know, since you really did not understand this before (and you didn't). (Yes, I said that too, and I meant it!!!)

Then dress up nice, get your purse and go out alone for a while. Go out shopping or to a movie or whatever. You will be amazed at what this approach can do.

You have absolutely nothing to lose by doing this and absolutely everything to gain, even if it's just gaining back your own life.


One more post on dealing with a Passive/Aggressive spouse by Mulan:

I want to emphasize that it is the simple act of Calling Them On Their Behaviour **in itself** that is so effective.

"Calling Them" just means that you look them straight in the eye and calmly tell them that you KNOW their actions are deliberate and ARE meant to keep you off-balance and out of the way so the P/A can do what they please. You don't buy excuses or bend yourself into a pretzel trying to make sense out of nonsense anymore.

To put it bluntly, you start calling "bullsh*t" on their P/A behaviour.

Again, here's an example:

Picture somebody sneaking around in the dark and stealing your stuff. You can't see them and you can't prove it, but you KNOW damn well they're stealing your stuff even though they vehemently proclaim their innocence and insist you're crazy to think they're stealing your stuff.

You spend ages trying to talk them out of stealing your stuff and telling them how much it hurts you when they steal your stuff, but this makes no difference and they go right on stealing your stuff.

So, you try a different tactic:

The next time you feel sure they're stealing your stuff, you turn a glaring spotlight on them and get on a bullhorn saying, "YOU ARE STEALING MY STUFF. I KNOW YOU ARE BECAUSE I CAN SEE YOU DOING IT AND I AM NOT BLIND. THIS IS RUINING OUR RELATIONSHIP AND WE WILL NEVER HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP AS LONG AS YOU CONTINUE STEALING MY STUFF. HAVE A NICE DAY."

Then you GO AWAY and leave them standing there in the glaring spotlight holding your bag of stolen stuff, with nobody to blame or argue with but themselves.

You don't stand there and wait for them to apologize, or agree with you, or make amends, or anything else. You GO AWAY AND LEAVE THEM THERE HOLDING THE BAG ALL ALONE.

That's it. That's all. For 99.999 % of people, just confronting them under that glaring spotlight IS enough to make them stop - believe it or not! And for the .001% who won't, well, you would never have been attracted to one of those in the first place.

It's the confrontations **in and of themselves** that are effective. That's it. That's all you have to do. The confrontation is an enormous boundary in itself, as long as you are consistent about it and refuse to be talked out believing your own perceptions any longer.

Does this make sense?

Mulan-
Thanks, for the info. The thing is is that he does not live with me anylonger, and he is doing as he pleases right now. He has not really expressed any indication that he WANTS things to work out between us. The only thing that he has said is, "Maybe, but I do not want a R right now." He told me that he would not see anyone, and now he is. He told me last Monday that he was through with me, there was no hope of us getting back together. I just feel kind of beaten down by him right now... He dropped off the kids tonight and he was trying to act all upbeat and cheerful (maybe he really was!) and he actually tried to start small talk. I could not even really look at him. I just cut him off and told him to get our D's medicine out of the car before he forgot. (in a nice way of course). When he got back I told the girls to tell him goodbye, so they did, he stepped to the kitchen table and put the key down, and left.

I am so tired of being sad about this. It almost broke my heart- he had a new haircut, he was clean-shaven, and he had on new clothes. Probably to go out with whoever he is seeing. And it makes me sad that he could not do those things for me.

If he was still here, it might be easier to try to work it out (his P/A) behaviors, but he is gone, so everytime I tried to confront his behaviors, he would deny, deny, deny, and then leave. Or hang up on me. So it is futile right now.

I just really need to get myself back on an even keel... I have been jerked around so much by him I feel physically worn out.

Thanks for the advice, I just do not know if it would help since he has said that he does not want to work things out, and now my mind has just shut down towards being nice to him since he said he is dating. I am not able to play the game right now. I need to regroup, and get my bearings to decide what to do. The only thing that I have decided is that I will not call him for anything anymore, unless it is of an emergency nature, I will not answer his phone calls, he can leave a message. Not that he is calling anyway...

On a bright note, he did say that he would come here Wed. and take the kids for the evening. So that is good for them.

I am just so mad at him... still. I just cannot believe that he was so mean to me, and he strung me along for so long... I am a person that needs to know what is going on, in order to be ok, and I have been in turmoil for so long.

I am so mad, upset, depressed... I just cannot believe that he would treat me so poorly, when he had ever opportunity to treat me better EX: . taking the kids last mon. - I had plans, he "forgot" he said that he would watch them, then became angry that I wanted to do my plans, mad at me for 'duping him' into watching them, even though he had said that he would, and he could have just watched them, for once for me during the week, and I could have relaxed, and he could have spent time with the kids... but noooooo. He had to be a jerk.

I just feel so betrayed by him, so mad at him. I keep thinking that he will feel bad, and at least apologize to me for the incident last Mon., but I know that he never will, it was just his way to make himself feel better about his 'date', to show what a horrible person I was, in his mind.

It just hurts so bad that someone you trusted, and loved, would think so little of hurting you, and being mean to you, especially if you were trying to get along, trying to work things out.... As of now I am not able to let go of that hurt.

On a bright note, I went out the other night, my parents agreed to watch the kids overnight for me on Sun. I went out with some work friends, and new people, and I had a really nice time. I had fun. So that is good. But, at the end of the night I could not help but think, "if only my and my H had went out still after the kids were born, we could have had fun like this too."

I just feel like I was duped by him, and I get so angry and resentful. When his brother left his wife for another woman, my H was SO MAD at him. He could not believe that he would have left his W and kids for someone else, he said to me that he would never leave me and the kids. And I believed him. What a fool.

I am just having a hard couple of days... I have not broke down and called him about anything, so that is good. I really do not want to talk to him anymore anyway...

I called his mom to see if I could drop off the kids Wed. so that he could pick them up from her house, and she said she was not going to be home. So that is too bad. Would it be crazy to just throw them out the door when he got here? I do not want to have any contact with him anymore, I am so hurt/mad/betrayed/disgusted by him.

I went to call the lawyer about filing for the D, and I started shaking, and crying... I could not stop. I am so mad that he put me in this spot to have to do something that I just do not believe in (D). But I have to do it, if I am going to move on... it just is terrible....

My sister is going to come here today for when H comes to pick up the kids. I am going to go out, and then she will meet me for dinner, then go back to the house for when H drops off the kids. I just cannot bear the thought of seeing him. I cannot make small talk with him, I cannot be fine around him right now. I feel like I am being a coward now, but I just do not want to get myself all upset when I see him.

So far I have not been able to make an appointment with the D lawyer, I just get too upset. I am going to wait until I am more at peace with the decision. I still get too upset. Who knows, maybe he will finally do the right thing and file since he is the one that did not want to be M...