I found this list of things that the FWS and the FBS should do to aid in recovery. IMO, I totally agree that if these things were done when D-day hit, everyone would be further along.

Do any of you think this list is unreasonable? I don't.

But, I would add to the BS's list that they should try to control the LB's as best as possible even though it's difficult when faced with adultery.

Here's the list..........

In order for your marriage to successfully survive these are some things that your spouse must do:

1. He must be totally honest with you about everything
2. He must answer every question that you ask truthfully and fully.
3. He must do everything in his power to prove to you that you are the one that he wants to be with.
4. He must prove his love to you...he must be patient, gentle, compassionate and understanding.
5. He must feel your pain.
6. He must fully understand the devastation that he caused you.
7. He must accept full responsibility for his actions.
8. He must stop all contact with OP and not try to protect them.
9. He must reassure you that it is OK to ask questions.
10. He must reassure you that you will not drive him away by doing the things that are necessary to heal.
11. He must recognize when your struggling or experiencing a trigger and comfort you.
12. He must be able to tell you how sorry he is and show you.
13. He must re-enforce to you, that you are not responsible.
14. He must put his own feelings of guilt and shame aside and help you heal first.
15. He must reconnect emotionally, mentally, and physically with you and stay connected.
16. He must work on rebuilding trust. No secrets. No privacy.
17. He must be willing to seek counseling.
18. He must learn what is and is not acceptable when communicating with the opposite sex...he must establish boundaries and not cross them.

Here is a list of things that you must do:

1. Give him the necessary time to prove his love and commitment to you.
2. Be open with your feelings.
3. Ask the questions that are important to you.
4. Don't be afraid that you will drive him away while you are trying to heal.
5. Stop blaming yourself for his actions. You are in no way responsible...even if you are Attila the Hun!
6. You must be able to let him connect with you. (this one takes time)
7. You must continue checking up on him in order to let him rebuild trust.
8. You must be willing to seek counseling so that you do not get stuck in one of the stages of recovery such as anger or depression.


So what do you think guys?

Mopey,

I think that's a great list. Where'd you find it?

Awhile back I belive I found it in the archives. I cut & pasted in the recovery section a few weeks ago, maybe longer. But there's a new thread that someone else started over there on it.

I brought it over here to GQII to get more opinions on it.

Thanks for responding.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It's a GREAT list. Unfortunately, 99% of WS's would never do anything on the list on D-day, nor shortly after.

That is the problem with most recovery advice - the WS doesn't want to DO it. That is why I like the MB plans.

It's been almost 14 months since D-day for me. WH wouldn't dream of doing ANYTHING on the list. He told me from Day 1 he would not 'prove' ANYTHING to me.

Only a truly repentant, remorseful WS who really did love the BS could do these things IMHO. I could'nt even DREAM of asking WH for these things. He'd spit at me.

A great list though that would truly make recovery possible.

Hi Believer....

I miss you guys over here. I was hoping you would see this and tell me what you thought.

I'm hoping some of the other peeps who have been around a little while will give me their opinions too.

I also think the MB plans are awesome. I feel that a lot of the rules for protection that Harley mentions is included in the list.

Another question for you.....

After plans A&B and withdrawal, do you see this list as being unreasonable?

Do you think it's too much to ask a FWS to do? That is, if the FWS is remorseful and wants to reconcile of course.

POJA, RO and filling the LBs (love bank) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> All good and doable by a recovered spouse. Shedding the Xws title is required for it to work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Is there a personal reason for these questions?

JMHO,
L.

Hi Orchid.....

Thanks for stopping by. I read your thread earlier this evening and felt bad for you. I hope you're feeling better. I know helping other people can have healing properties.....so glad you're here and thanks!




I agree the above is all good for sure. In fact, Harley's plans and advice on marriage makes more sense than anything I've ever read, and experienced in my life.

Question.....you said "doable by a recovered spouse". Not sure what you mean by that? The things on this list would help me during recovery.




I'm sorry Orchid. I'm confused again. I’m thinking of “Xws” as someone's ex-husband. An X who had an affair.

I know I'm missing something. Will you please clarify it for me?




Yes. Thanks for asking.

I found that list awhile back in the archives. I copied and pasted it and put it in the recovery section. Not sure how long ago that was. Anyway, I was just looking at a post over in recovery from a FWS who was given that list by his wife. He was asking for help on how to deal with the list.

One of the more seasoned posters told him that the list was unreasonable. Maybe so. But my thought was that list was exactly what I needed from my FWH and I totally didn't think the list was unreasonable. And so because this poster said it was unreasonable, I am asking if anyone else thinks so. I do realize that a lot of FWSs would just like to forget and move on, but we all know that’s not possible. I know recovery is hard for the FWSs too. But, I don’t think this list is unreasonable for someone who is out of withdrawal, remorseful and wanting to reconcile.

I will feel bad for the BS if that FWS (from the recovery forum) tells her, "it's unreasonable" because of what one poster said. . And also, I don't want to expect too much from my H so I need help here. Is this list asking too much?

Its a very good list and completely doable and not in the least bit unreasonable, and I know that because, as an FWW, I"ve done each and every one of them.

Which is why we are recovered.

Oh and my H did each and every one of the BS list.

I am amazed someone would think that list is unreasonable. It's completely reasonable and is a blueprint for recovery.

Thanks for the care and concern. I am feeling better. We are not perfect and sometimes we do shed a tear or 2. When it got past 4 tears, I got frustrated. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: A recovered spouse w/b willing to tackle that list. It is a long one so it is something one can do but each has it's own pace. Order is not important as commitment and honesty to the recovery. Don't feel compelled to make it a law or with a certain order. Each has their own way of recovering. The other important piece is sincerity.

Often recovery takes longer and in many case 2 - 3 times as long as the A. Not always but often.


Shedding the Xws title is required for it to work.


Orchid: Xws (aka: former wayward spouse). One can't recover if they are acting as a WS or Xws. Recovery can start at the Xws point but eventually that title must give way for your real spouse to take his real place back in the family. You don't want someone who has the 'job' description of being any type of a WS attitude IN your family.


Is there a personal reason for these questions?



Orchid: As I stated above, it is doable but not for an Xws. Too much effort required. If the Xws isn't willing to shed their Xws title.....to be a real spouse again, then that person does not deserve recovery. So it is possible for one t/b an Xws for life and also be divorced! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> That w/b a BS' decision to D the Xws even if the A has ended. Do you know why?

L.

Hi Lucyloo.....

I am so sorry I missed your post last night. Thank you very much for responding.

But I have to ask Lucyloo.....if your husband isn't willing to do any of those things on the list to help you recover, why do you stay? Do you have children?

I am soooooooo sorry he feels this way.

Hi KiwiJ.......

I would also like to thank you, in particular, for responding since you were a FWW.

I agree that the list is doable and necessary for recovery.

It shows that "you get it" for sho.

My heart is full of happiness for your spouse because I know he was able to get what he needed. Thank you for doing that for him.

My H did all those things and more after his last A. Before that there were some missing, and we had a couple of false recoveries.

They have to realize what allowed them to succumb to temptation, to allow feelings of entitlement, to not respect boundaries, and to not put themselves in a position where there is opportunity.

They also need to recognize that they must maintain strong boundaries from here on out and never have intimate/personal discussions people of the opposite sex.

Hi again Orchid.....



Not that you are saying this, but am reading between the lines here. Do you relate crying with weakness? I think it's necessary to release your pain.





I know this feeling. Over the last 6 months I cried so much it was frustating.



I agree about not making it a law. But what about making some of them boundaries? There are certain things on that list, most of the things actually, that I need for recovery. But have been patient and will be for awhile longer.

I believe sincerity is key. Many times I have felt like my H wasn't sincere in things he has said to me in recovery. Mostly because of the blanket apologies. Ex: "I'm sorry I hurt you". Leads me to believe he doesn't understand the depth of my pain.



I have been pondering this since last night. I definitely do not want any kind of WS attitude in my family. And I do feel like there's still some of that here. My FWH has only recently started to become a little proactive in our recovery. Not nearly enough for me though. Is this what you mean?

So......do the FWSs become just "spouses" after they get to the point that they are willing and sincere about helping the BS to recover? If my H was sincere and diligent about what's on that list, I could see myself recovering healthfully. Right now, I just feel like he put band-aids on me. And, he seems tired of it all. Guess what, so am I!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />



I'm not saying that my H hasn't put in any effort (although not enough IMO)but, it does seem to me that it does require a lot of effort on his part. Like.....it's a total drag or here we go again kind of thing.

I have made quite a few posts this last week and my H has yet to discuss any of it with me. I don't even know if he has read my posts. Shows a lack of concern about my feelings, IMO. I know he reads here from time to time. He has seen me replying to posts so I know he knows. I was always the one who had to bring up the subject. Over the last two weeks though he did ask me if there was anything I needed to talk about. Unfortunately, it was during the period I HAD to cram for a few exams and get a project done for school. And that was the only time I forced myself to do my work instead. Now that things have calmed down for me at school, nothing.



I'll take a stab at it. The FWS didn't do enough to help the BS recover because he's still not getting it?

This thread is really going to help me, I can feel it.

Hi Trix......

Thanks to you too for repsonding. I am thrilled your H has provided you what you need to recover.

Do you think the list is reasonable?

Trix.....

I just re-read your post. You hit on some VERY GOOD points. Points that I have been trying to make in my own recovery.



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

The first time I read your post, my H was in here and I read it rather quickly, and replied quickly cuz I need to get ready for the gym. But H said he wasn't in a hurry so I read it again. Glad I did too.

Although I don't think there's a chance that my H would ever want to be with that OW again, it does scare me that we are in a "false recovery". Mainly because there's about 7 things on that list that I don't feel he is doing for me.




Agreed. I do not feel safe with him yet. I made IC for him a boundary of mine two months ago and he has yet to make an appt with anyone. I will be more patient with him on this one though because I believe he will go before too long. If not, I'm outie.

I am in the process of setting up an IC appt for myself. I'll know this Monday who I'm assigned to so I can proceed. It's through my University so I hope it helps.





Agree again. And I'm pretty sure my H gets this part. I can tell though through our discussions regarding this that he was feeling he may have a hard time with this. He's scared to even talk to a woman now almost. I have mixed feelings on this.

Thanks for your input Trix.

Here is a rather long post I almost lost...

The list is a good on. I would add the 15 hours per week etc that Harley recommends.

Orchid: We are not perfect and sometimes we do shed a tear or 2.



Mopey: Not that you are saying this, but am reading between the lines here. Do you relate crying with weakness? I think it's necessary to release your pain.

[color:"blue"]Orchid: Let's not read between the ilnes.....my eyes already have trouble reading what is printed. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

IMHO, crying is not a sign of weakness.....I just don't do it often for me. I know it is necessary to cry so when I do it I know I need to. Just don't do it often. [/color]

Orchid: A recovered spouse w/b willing to tackle that list. It is a long one so it is something one can do but each has it's own pace. Order is not important as commitment and honesty to the recovery. Don't feel compelled to make it a law or with a certain order. Each has their own way of recovering. The other important piece is sincerity.


Moepy: I agree about not making it a law. But what about making some of them boundaries? There are certain things on that list, most of the things actually, that I need for recovery. But have been patient and will be for awhile longer.

I believe sincerity is key. Many times I have felt like my H wasn't sincere in things he has said to me in recovery. Mostly because of the blanket apologies. Ex: "I'm sorry I hurt you". Leads me to believe he doesn't understand the depth of my pain.

[color:"blue"]Orchid: Look at the list. Figure out which boundaries are important to you, let him know. Don't make the list long....you can add to it later. Adding to it and watch his reaction. You will be looking for his support and willing to work what is reasonable. While he s/b willing to move mountains..... don't give him a shoevel or a bulldozer....let him work at his own pace with an agreed progressive path. [/color]

Mopey: So......do the FWSs become just "spouses" after they get to the point that they are willing and sincere about helping the BS to recover? If my H was sincere and diligent about what's on that list, I could see myself recovering healthfully. Right now, I just feel like he put band-aids on me. And, he seems tired of it all. Guess what, so am I!!!


[color:"blue"]Orchid: Yes. That's a sign you can use to measure the covery from both sides (yours and his). When his attitudes reverts to the angry type of WS attitude, remind him that it frightens you. I did. No bandaids....major surgery and recovery c/b in ICU instead of a private hospital room. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Getting closure is important for both of you together and separately. [/color]

Mopey: Over the last two weeks though he did ask me if there was anything I needed to talk about. Unfortunately, it was during the period I HAD to cram for a few exams and get a project done for school. And that was the only time I forced myself to do my work instead. Now that things have calmed down for me at school, nothing.

[color:"blue"]Orchid: Then he needs to keep asking. Let him know you need reassurance. He may ask how long....your response c/b.....until I stop asking. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

Mopey: I'll take a stab at it. The FWS didn't do enough to help the BS recover because he's still not getting it?

This thread is really going to help me, I can feel it.

[color:"blue"]Orchid: Either not getting it or doesn't want to get it. Either way it needs to be fixed. If he doesn't get it, recommend counseling (have him call Steve). If he doesn't want to get it..... you consider plan B.

Glad this is helping. I believe your thread can help many if they choose to read it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />[/color]

Hugz,
L.

The list is a goal I try to live up to. I took along time for me to actively try all of the "stuff." I fail often. I know I am too passive in the recovery and my bride has to prompt me in many things.

I had hoped that just by being very contrite and by stopping all contact gladly, that time would heal us. I know hat I must be more honest and stop independent behavior, Boy, that is easier said than done. I continue to lie to avoid conflict and will drift from mutually agreed tasks when left alone. I spend far too much time in recreational reading than in reading materials on recovery, when this is what I should be doing. But I get so weary.

How does eveyone keep going.

Me 54 FWH (one month EA) NC 11 months
Her 53, BS