Here's another version:
Consequence: In order to protect myself, my boundary requires that I emotionally (and perhaps physically) distance myself from you.

Therefore, I am no longer available to meet your ENs. (Whether I feel like meeting them or not makes no difference. Either way, I'm not available, so it's a moot point.)

My being unavailable to meet your ENs is a natural consequence of your ignoring my boundary regarding dishonest behaviour.

Mulan

Punishment: I am going to deliberately withold meeting your ENs since you did something I don't like.

Boundary: In order to protect myself from your hurtful behaviour, I can no longer be available to meet your ENs (even though I might like to meet them.)

Mulan

Because that's the only one that's legal in most countries.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Mulan

Okie dokie,

I've been thinking about his boundary stuff for a bit and trying to figure out how to implement it myself.

I'm just not sure in what cases is my boundary being trespassed because "being verbally disprespectful" has a different meaning to my DH and myself.

I need help on defining the boundary. There are two types of verbal communication that I have issue with. First, is anything that is an AO, such as coming into the house and saying "WTF did you do to the car? It's all scratched up! You know how much I pay for that car? If you had to pay for it you wouldn't treat it like that..."

So, do I try to explain, "I didn't know there were scratches, it certainly wasn't intentional, etc." or do I just say that crosses my boundary and walk away. And if I do, and he continues to follow and pursue this talk (well, rant/yell), how do I handle that, also keeping in mind there are children around. My hope is to wait out the anger over whatever it is until he's calmed down enough that we can talk civilly.

The other thing has more to do with being respectful and polite...such as coming in (no hello, hi honey, nothing) and pointing to me and saying "I want you to do such and such by the end of the day..." There was no yelling, and it was something I had promised to do, but I still find the manner in which it was communicated disrespectful (made me feel like a child). Is this something worth enforcing a boundary on? This happened today and I said that I thought it was rude. He said he had every right to say what he did. It is true that I promised to do x,y,z...so I accept that it was a valid expectation. It's the manner in which is was communicated I didn't like. He wouldn't listen to me try to explain that difference and was irritated that I continued to try to do that. Am I being nitpicky on this one? What would be a better way to handle it?

If anyone has any recommendations for books or links to any other info on boundaries, I'd love to have them.

thanks!

Mom

Just tell him this exact thing.


But he has no right to subject you to rude and bullying behaviour, and you have every right to remove yourself from it if he tries.

The do so "until he's calmed down enough that we can talk civilly".

Mulan

Hmmm...waiting out anger...or the acting out of anger?

Mom...would you consider a first boundary enforcement to state what the abuse is?

"Profanity and yelling is abuse. Stop it. Accusations are not respectful communication. I hear you are really anger right now. I want to understand and need you to state and not demonstrate your feelings. If you can't do that right now, we can talk about this in one half-hour. If you continue this verbal abuse, I will remove myself. You are important to me."

Your first instinct is to refute...which escalates. Setting your boundary at seeking first to understand, then be understood does well to demonstrate the respect you yourself demand, doesn't it?

Listen and repeat...does not allow for abuse. Profanity and defining mean you remove yourself. If he follows, you remove yourself from the house. If you fear for your children, remove them with you. Take a walk. Go to a neighbor's house...takes about twenty minutes to stop your own reactive emotions from flooding you...gets you to clarity. Show back up at the time you said you would.

This doesn't discount his importance, his issue...states and affirms your highest honesty that you consider his stuff important, worth hearing and not taking abuse to get to.

Tells self you're safe and respectful.

Know why you want to refute before you really hear what he's trying to communicate. He can feel great anger and speak respectfully. So can you. You can feel huge fear and not refute.

I find stating the abuse specifically helps. Part of acknowledgment and living from truth. Same for stating your intent...to hear, to understand, that your partner is important and worthy. And a boundary enforcement reaffirms you are as well.

Do you hold yourself to this boundary? No profanity, no yelling, ranting?

LA

First a reality check - those are reasonable boundaries to have. My FWH did the same type of things, especially the cursing and demeaning me when he was angry. Notice I said *did*. After his A, one of my requirements for staying was that cursing at me, blowing up at me, ranting at me, all of that stop immediately and never happen again. It's abusive but the abuser doesn't see it that way. The abuser tends to say, "how am I supposed to express anger?" "How am I supposed to let you know about things?" Sound familiar?

When you're in it, you start to doubt yourself. You start to think that people expressing anger and communicating that way is "normal." It's not. But that's not even the point. The point is that you're not comfortable with it and are not going to accept it anymore out of self-respect and holding onto your own integrity. That's why it's a boundary.

What to do? First, I made a list and told my H about what was not acceptable to me. This included that he not yell at me or be disrespectful to me in front of our children. I also gave him some outs. As in, "it's o.k. if you need to take a break to cool down AWAY from me." I told him that I would give him a warning. "I'm feeling badgered. Please stop and take a break." or "You're cursing at me. Please stop and take a break." ETC. If he follows you into a different room, repeat that you want to discuss this with him when he's calmer. Suggest options - "why don't you take a walk and cool down and come back."

Of course my FWH argued these points with me, especially the disrespectful. And it came down to perception - yes, if *I* feel like you're being disrespectful, then *I* feel like you're being disrespectful! I define what feels safe to me. Stand firm. It did happen again, a couple of times and I implemented my key phrases. He was able to take the break and come back to it. *I* was able to take the break and come back to him when *I* started engaging in these behaviors, caught myself, and realized I needed a breather. It's difficult since you're used to arguing a certain way.

Once we were able to break the pattern, then it got easier. We've been able to have discussions without the abuse going on for two months now. It feels different. I still reserve the right though to give myself a break if I'm getting too upset or to let him know he needs to take a break for me to feel safe. And that has happened (usually after MC!), but it feels better now to even take the break. It doesn't feel like the world is going to collapse in those 15 minutes.

this thread deserves a bump....