I think it is important to remember this is not *specifically* about KY but about FWS that have fully recovered *themselves*. Don't we consider a FBS to be "recovered" whether they choose to stay in the M or D?

indeed we do !

Pep,

The original post was about RWS, FWS and WS....and the how KY views the distinctions between those letters. She defined what she thought, and opened a discussion. But aside from the fact that she started the thread, that is the only connection KY has to anything I'm talking about.

However, if you want to use KY as a hypothetical example to understand what I'm talking about....then the WS I would be referring to in KY's sitch would be the wife of her OM (the other BS), not her (KY's) husband.


The best insurance is for BOTH marriages to recover (if there are two).....and that's really my point. Even though an OP is not always married, and a WS isn't always having an affair with a MOP....I still think real recovery (for either of them) is about more than just the personal struggle to end an affair and reach of level of personal growth and marital recovery. Real spiritual growth and what I would define as true recovery, would also include a complete lack of intrusion into the other marriage....even if that means having to do things like change churches or scout troups. It's the least that a WS who is the OP in another marriage can do....because as some have suggested...there are some things that are <never> recoverable.

You said what you felt should be part of the criteria, I agreed by explaining what I did, I was giving examples. You then did turn it directly to me, which then makes everything else a bit confusing.

Sore spot, no I did not know that, I was led here by BW, I did break NC through this site, I was then encouraged to continue here, as BW had been posting somewhere else. Had she led on to ME that it was a sore spot, I would have never kept posting. It was NEVER relayed to me that it was a problem, it was only encouraged.

Are you implying a WS/FWS/RWS should know the status of the OP's recovery??? If so I disagree, I do not believe their recovery is any of my business, as is my recovery any of theirs. It's part of NC if you ask me.

I do not believe one could ever fix or make it up to the OP, but they can do all of what you and I have been saying on this thread. A RWS would.



and I completely agree with you

KY, until you gave personal examples related to your situation....I said nothing that referred directly to you....I responded <to> you....I didn't initiate a conversation <about> you.


Of course not. I've explained what I mean....several times now. I'm not "implying" anything. I am saying that <to me> a truly "recovered" person cares enough about the pain they have caused to make sure that nothing they do in the future intrudes, creates social discomfort when avoidable, or further harms those they have already impacted. I don't think your original definition included that. I think a description of recovery for anyone who has been an OP (including WSs) that doesn't include extra-ordinary precautions to protect all marriages that were affected, is too narrow.

As an example of what I mean....let's say for instance that a person in a situation similar to yours belonged to a bridge group with the wife of her OP. After D-day, the affair broke up, but this FWS who had now recovered her marriage and was feeling good about herself....felt she shouldn't have to quit the bridge club. I would consider the marriage "recoverd", but not the FWS. That's a real example. I know another example where the couples involved were friends. After the affair was over, the OP(wife) couldn't understand why it shouldn't be okay to enroll her daughter in the same ballet class as child in the marriage she intruded upon.

LOL!

I don't know why you made me laugh but you did, Pep!

Mom
hopefully meeting the criteria for RWS

KY, I am glad to see this thread.

I think it is up to the BS's to define the criteria of how they would qualify a WS as a RWW rather than FWW. Not only marriage recovery but personal recovery of both the WS and BS as well, assuming no D of course.

I would add that I strongly agree that no contact with OP or OP family ("NC for life") would be a must to be recovered and that includes avoiding even the possibility of crossing paths with OP/OPS due to children's activities.

I think the labels are immensely helpful here on the website. A concern I would have though would be anyone claiming to be recovered but goes on to dispense advice to newbies that is clearly inconsistent with actually being recovered. But then again, it is up to each individual to take what they are given and decide for themselves the validity of it.

Otherwise, I think these labels are definitely a positive.


Mom

{{{{{{{{Jell}}}}}}}}

Just 'cos.

oh dear

I must be losing my mind

I made MomA-Z laugh, and I don't know why <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

additionally

I've also concluded I agree with *fish .... again, I don't know why <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

maybe I am having cognitive problems since watching "BORAT" DVD yesterday .... ?????

my H refers to me NOT as a FBW or RBW ... but as "sweetheart" .... I wonder what the he!! is wrong with that man

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Well darn Pep, you made me laugh again!!!!!!!!!

Borat??

Yep, your mind is toast.