well, i'm not sure if i made a mistake this weekend or not.. my husband contacted me... i met him for coffee yesterday... he has continued his therapy and knows that he wants me back... and i want him as well.. but i'm afraid that he won't change for him.. which is what i continue to ask.. change for you.. nobody else.. not even me... but for you... and then us... he seemed very determined to get me back... promises, etc... but i still have that gate up... do i let it down and let him in.. and try again... ???... i stopped at the bookstore and did some reading over the weekend... there is hope for our marriage... for him... and i want to be there to help him through.... am i being blinded?

Space is a good thing, why not give it some time? Let him prove that he's made changes, if you are "easy" he'll slip back into what he was doing... Read the Boundaries books next... learn how to set firm boundaries even with any interactions with him.

i am still giving it time.... things are not going to be NORMAL right now... there needs to be a period where he can prove himself... i understand that much...
the boundaries... do you know who the author is?

Hi again, stressed wife,

I was in the process of replying to you, but my message got so long I thought I should begin a new string for anyone interested in the subject "is this person just too far gone?".

The authors of the Boundaries books are Cloud & Townsend.

Your situation rings so true to my own, that I am continually compelled to reach out to you, to give you anything that might help and to save you from years of strife. Some people can only be left to God. They will merely consume us.

You're a wonderful woman! You are the beautiful baby you were and the darling little girl you are inside, and the hopeful adolescent - all too precious to be emotionally brutalized. You're a kingdom builder. I'll bet you're a good leader too and a great mother. You're a part of the solution, not the problem.

There - some things to lift you up after a long day!

Cloud and Townsend, there's a book along with a workbook. I agree, my husband has consumed me as hfpw says... he's what counselors called a "crazy maker." He's left a path of destruction behind him everywhere he goes - and women before me in strife. I've been through years of strife, two years since I left the man and he's still begging, pleading all the meanwhile drinking, cheating and doing what he does. He seems to enjoy that I am distraught and can't make a firm decision to divorce him. I wish I had done it immediately after I left him, after he pushed and pushed and pushed me around over and over again. He claimed "it wasn't that bad" as most men will say "that..." it's in your head, you made me do it, the works. There's a good domestic violence book with a checklist to help you see if he's making "real" changes or if he's just talking to get you back into the cycle all over again... we don't want you to go round and round and round for years. If you call your domestic violence agency or even one out of town they'll give you free counseling, and there's support groups too. When I lived in a city one of the support groups was for women who wanted to stay. The counselors were professional and would never "tell" someone to leave, I didn't go to the groups as I moved to a smaller town but I think they might have been helpful as many other women go through this sadly. The counselors kept saying it's the same story over and over again - and it does seem to be, my story, your story and other women on this board. Manipulation, control, cry babies, and the living ******... life is supposed to be about peace and happiness, yet some people want to steal our joy. I don't know why, but these types of men want to bring us down to their level. Please get some help, read up, write in a journal, stay on this board - but don't go back and think it'll be ok magically. Likely it wont'. Sorry

Stressedwife... I was asked to come look at your site? First off... if you don't mind sharing can you tell me what state you are in? I am a retired police officer and I take a special interest in abuse and abusers. I can help direct you to where you need to go and some do's and don't. Perhaps you can shoot over to GQII and take a look at my domestic violence thread. My email is attached to this site and I would be ahppy to direct you in any way that I can.

Some quick do's and don'ts!

Do speak to a local abuse shelter and NEVER take no for an answer as far as getting the help you need.
Do stand proud and KNOW that you are not to blame for anything that has happened to you.
Do seek and enforce a protection from abuse order.
Do not EVER meet with your H after the order is signed.
Do not EVER meet your H in a private place.
Do not listen to sweet talk or promises.
Do run in the opposite direction if and when you see him coming. Don't think you can manage an abuser (please see my thread mentioned above... it makes the point better than I can).

I do not wish to scare you anymore than necessary to keep you safe. I worked as a cop in Philadelphia and dealt with abuse and abusers on a daily basis. I have carried far too many bodies of people that were victims of abuse. Please DO NOT allow yourself to become one of these. If you need to find a safe place to go... we can accomplish that within hours.

YOu can break the cycle of abuse only by being strong enough to stand and fight. Abusers break down the will of their victims because they are cowards at heart. They appear strong and powerful to their victims only because of the terror they have inflcited in their lives. You can rise above this.... I know first hand both from my work and my own life ( I too was abused as a child and in a different way).

If you need my help, I can be reached via email... on GQII or I will check back on your thread.

Thank you soooooo very much for all of your advice... everyone... i do not feel i am in any physical danger... i know that i HAVE been through emotional abuse... emotional distress.... but i was also letting it happen... i am standing strong and have voiced what "I" want... what "I" need...
mkeverydaycnt, I live in delaware county, pa... and i am in need of some advice if you can help... i told my family last night that i was going to possibly TRY and make things work with my H and I... my brother freaked out... called my H continuously... harassing him.... they BOTH said things they shouldn't have... I am a great mom and a great person... my brother hurt me by telling me that he was going to have my kids taken from me (because they are in the PFA against my H) and that i was 1000% out of his life... well, i only asked for support from my family... i think i deserve to give my marriage ONE chance... this is the first separation with my H... and it wasn't one that i was sure of to begin with...even if it's a mistake, it's MY mistake and i need to figure it out on my own... am i making another mistake by getting help with my H? I have spoken to him since the PFA but now i'm worried... i don't know wether to drop it or not because of my brother... i definitely do NOT want my H to go to jail because i spoke with him... can my brother do this?
i know i must sound soooo confusing this morning.. and that's because i am confused.. i feel like i'm torn between my natural family and my H...
PLEASE HELP!!! I NEED ADVICE!!!

Okay... I live within a half hour of you as I am in Chester County.
I am confused... you say you do not feel as though you are in physical danger... yet there is a PFA... can you explain this? I can't give any other advice until I know these details. It might be best to email me at the address attached to my account.

MEDC

i have replied via pesonal email.. thank you...

((( Dear Precious Child, Someone's Daughter, Important Person, Human Being, Friend, Mother, Wife, Valuable Contibutor to Society....)))


You are more than you think you are!


Your life has value and purpose!


He is WRONG. And is Wrong.


Get Informed on DV apart Dv info. Accurate information will provide temperance to embrace a truthful larger picture.

Assist you further in making wise informed choices. You are not to blame and you don't deserve this.


He has proven by his actions that he does not have your well being/ welfare at heart.


Everyone here has given you solid good advice! Worth processing!!!

He left you no other choice other than to seek corrective measures. You are being courageous!!!



You may want to contact Dr. Harley here to verify your situation/stance.

Call toll-free 1 (888) 639-1639
or
e-mail (counsel@marriagebuilders.com) an appointment request


Strivn posted this excellent site by Patricia Evans.

http://www.verbalabuse.com/3.shtml


Flowers for you. Brighten your day a tiny bit.

http://www.800florals.com/virtual4/VFRoseSpr.htm

Located this site for you. Hope it helps.

http://dvcc.delaware.gov/directory.html

Skylites... thank you sooooo very much for the roses <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> they're BEAUTIFUL... Thank you for the link... it is MUCH appreciated.. everyone's advice is appreciated... i am so very glad i found this group <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
i have a counseling appointment with my H tonight.. I will make some kind of insightful decision with moving forward or staying put...

Heartfelt pleasure! Your most welcome! Your Worth it! We're in your corner!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Now you have more pro-action options. Deal with what you can. Praying for your Wisdom/Protection.


When you have time. Re-enforcement sake. You might want to listen Dr. Harely Sr. radio audio broadcast on the subject DV/abuse. Insightful. Excellent.


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you... I will take your advice and LISTEN well <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

stressedwife, you don't have to make a decision TODAY, anyone separated or going through a crisis typically changes their mind daily. There's a Christian book Hope for the Separated that says that and I believe it to be true. One day a divorce, the next reconciliation. Work on your issues. Make him work on his. This can be done in separate counseling, marriage counseling will be hard right now, he needs his own and will likely be required anyways right, anger management at the very least? Some of those counselors can be good and helpful and the typical programs are quite long and intense, in a group setting.

This is an awesome site isn't it? Let us know how the counseling with your H went... we are hanging in there with you...

Reading another one of your posts, YES your brother can make your life living ******. You turned this over to the SYSTEM and you have no idea what THEY can do to you, they can take your children if you keep your children in an environment of ABUSE after you turned in your husband, and he then turned you in for domestic violence. I don't think you understand the seriousness of this or how the SYSTEM can take over your life. You didn't understand that by asking for HELP there's now a record on you and your husband. Social services can be called in to evaluate your home, they can interview witnesses and others. Your brother can make that call to get this process started if you immediately get back with your husband. Either way your children should NOT live in an environment of voilence, they will learn from this and will go through lives repeating this disfunction. At the very least protect your children, get help NOW. And not in the form of marriage counseling for goodness sake. Your husband needs help, and not just a session or two - nor should he be able to "fix" this situation with a quick "it's not going to happen again" in the same sentence he blames you for this mess. And it's a mess.

Sometimes restraining orders are placed automatically by the police department as procedure in domestic violence cases. Typically they are to be removed after a certain period of time if you weren't the one to file the restraining order. The reason they do this is they are now protecting you - and your children - because they think you aren't fit to think for yourself at this point, you are in a crisis and most men want to and will go back to their wives ok? I can't think of a better SYSTEM however on one hand the "victim" gets victimized - by being told what to do, and to not contact her husband. It's typical what you are doing, and perhaps on one hand the system is pushing you towards your husband by telling you what you can and can't do.

You know your husband more then anyone else. We don't know how violent this man has been, and how often this has happened. Can you tell us more? What's the history, we are going off this one story and it's not a good one. Sometimes though I believe there can be stress in a family an an incident - of "minor" domestic violence - and I'm not excusing it... but the "system" is set up for the "major" cases of repeated and very serious domestic violence. That's why the restraining order, that's why the no contact, that's why the concern about the children. If your brother is being defensive of the children I wonder, has he heard about this over and over again? Did he see bruises over and over again? Be honest, how serious has this really been and how repetitive? I think counselors "might" say that if it was a one time occurance and minor pushing/shoving yes this can be a wakeup call for him to change and you might make it. But NO if it's gone on and on and on and on, not without treatment - and serious TOUGH LOVE, meaning you make this man be alone and suffer the consequences of his behavior.

How can anyone make changes if there are no CONSEQUENCES?

And the retired cop is right (in his post about watching your safety), I'm a former journalist - and I covered two murders related to domestic violence, love triangles. At least it sounds like you are in a city where cops deal with this all the time and take any incident very, very seriously as they KNOW what you don't know. No one wants to think their own husband could be capable of the ultimate crime, but it happens, just turn on the news.

Your husband is under a lot of pressure right now, he's likely very angry no matter what he's saying to you - his emotions are running wild. He's boiling and needs time to calm down, space. Can you gently tell him you need time and space too? Whatever you do, don't get in his face, try not to argue with him at all. Keep a firm, monotone voice in conversations, develop a plan with YOUR OWN counselor - or us online at the very least - know what you are going to say to him. Tears and crying don't work with guys like this, they don't "feel sorry" for us typically, they blame us ok? Try not to let him see you cry or whine if at all possible, it'll take some of his power away, his power is heightened when you are a wreck (and even if you are, breathe, think, have written words, a plan, stick with the plan).

What I posted last... about "minor" domestic violence maybe I shouldn't have said (although there are likely cases as such where once the cops are dialed people do lose their lives to the system without having a clue on the spiral of events about to take place). Every domestic violence situation should be taken very, very seriously although they vary in degree from one extreme to the other - thus the system of treating them all as equal once the cops become involved. Yes you know your husband better then others, but right now he's under more stress then ever - and small things might set him off ok?

You might keep a journal of events and conversations, and it's true right now isn't the time to go anywhere alone. You don't need to be paranoid but just let people know casually when you are coming and going and where. Call your domestic violence agency and get some help. Today. They'll tell you what you dont want to hear, some of those people can be quite opinionated but the good ones won't tell you what to do. They'll empower you, but help you with a safety plan. You need one, not to focus on so you are paranoid, but so you don't wind up on the evening news ok?

This is an insane time for you, and we are sorry.

(((SW)))

It's hard. I know. Thinking about you.

Trauma. Overwhelming. Pain.

U are an important person.

Hope you can rest. Holding your hand.

today i need hugs.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> although my H and i have decided to work things out... i am feeling rushed and pressured into making decisions that i'm not happy with... he wants to move back home and that's fine with me... but we need to give it a few more weeks.... the issue is now his son.... my stepson's mom doesnt' want him to come back home (my house) because she feels he is unsafe... unsafe from my brother who has been constantly harassing my H... my H now wants to get a restraining order from my brother and as much as my brother has already "disowned" me, i cannot have my brother NEVER be able to come to MY home... BUT i know how important it is for my SS's mother to be protective of her son... and i feel that it is best for them BOTH to not come home.. if my H is willing to work with me while living in an apartment, then it is meant to be... if he can't... then we should move on...
any advice?

Stay strong, find a good counselor.
I think you should keep H at a distance, because if he moves back too quickly, old patterns will return, and you don't want to replay these unhealthy patterns.
Let H's ex deal with SS, while you deal with your life. Don't feel guilty about other's choices.
I hope you have a good counselor and confidant to help you through this time.
Our area has a local Women's Crisis Center which offers free counseling for abuse, even emotional abuse. They have much more experience than those who deal with this sometimes. Perhaps there is something like this in your area.