Has anyone here had to toatlly remove from your child's life a parent that has hurt that child time and again?

I ask this because I am at a crossroads with my son's mom. As some of you know, I have full custody and she has only very limited visitation. He is constantly being disappointed by her and I am feeling the need to step in and end their relationship entirely. My IC has said that he feels that she should be isolated from my child. My son (he's 11) is also now saying he doesn't want to go to her house or care if he even spends time with her.
Part of me feels like I should honor his wishes and also follow the IC's advice. My family is also supportive of this break. Yet, there is a part of me that feels that he needs to have his mom in his life... even if on a very limited basis.
I am looking for some input.

MEDC

Can you work on lowering his expectations?

~ Marsh

One thought just popped in my mind.

If you can legally remove her completely from his life, then, in the event of your untimely death, you should then be able to name the guardian of your choosing in your Last Will and Testament.

As of now...his mother is the defacto successor guardian in such dire situation.

Even if you LEGALLY remove her...such situation does not necessarily have to remain permanent. After a year or so you can revisit the issue. Maybe even only allowing supervised visitation (for example...she comes over for a cook-out or something and visits your son WITH YOU).

Sorry you find yourself in this situation.

Mr. Wondering

Oh, MEDC, my step-kids have one of those moms. She has been noticeably absent from their lives, and full of disappointments. I could write a book about the times she promised them something and didn't come through.

I always told them that she was doing the best she could. I firmly believe that a child needs both parents, unless one parent is dangerous.

that's already done. he can actually be adopted if I marry again. My brother is the guardian in the event of my death.

No. Honesty and integrity should be expected...even from ones mother.

I know how you feel and I don't their mother is all that bad she is just full of disappointment.... What is their mother's thoughts, I mean what is her desire. To be with your son? for what reason, to get back at you to get money from you or just be with her son?

Why continue to expect things from someone who has never/rarely delivered those things?

Is your son turning his resentments about his mom on himself? Is that why he wants to discontinue seeing her?

You see, MEDC, if you and your son expect his mom to be things she is not then there's a very good chance your son thinks the flaw is w/ him. If only he were a better kid, she'd be a better mom. So he tries...probably has for years...and still sees no improvement. So, every time she disappoints him (fails to fullfil his expectations), he turns that disappointment into a stab at his self worth.

If he could lower his expectations, accept his mother's choices as sad FOR HER (b/c she's missing out on knowing and loving him.) he could turn this around.

~ Marsh

MEDC wrote:

"He is constantly being disappointed by her and I am feeling the need to step in and end their relationship entirely. My IC has said that he feels that she should be isolated from my child. My son (he's 11) is also now saying he doesn't want to go to her house or care if he even spends time with her."

Would she change if you told her this? Even a little?

MEDC: I am so sorry that you are in this position. How awful for you and your son. So sad.

First things first, is your son in IC? If not, he should be before anything as drastic as cutting off all contact is done. No question.

IMHO, I can't help but think that it would be unhealthy for a son to have no contact with his mother...even a bad mother (as long as there is no "abuse," and I say this recognizing that it could be argued that her behavior is abusive).

One fear would be that ending contact will only delay some inevitable acknowledgement of who/what she is. If there is no contact, would your son begin to elevate her in his mind, turning her into some sympathetic figure, someone to whom he can turn later in his life, someone who will "come around"? At some point in his life, he would want to re-connect with her...and just suffer even greater disappointment....don't you think? Would it be more "healthy" for him to see her for who she is, recognize how it is hurtful to him, and learn how to distance himself emotionally from her, not turn it on himself as Marsh suggested?

Sorry...this is all total speculation. I just would be REALLY reluctant to cut off contact with a parent. I tend to agree with Marsh.

Again...I'm so sorry. I'll keep you all in my prayers.

One can only hope ... not expect ....

what is she doing that is so toxic?

Marsh. Thank you for your advice. It does, however, fly in the face of things I believe and have been told by two IC's. Teaching him to accept her as she is would be the big mistake in my opinion. It shows him that he cannot have standards that the people in his life must meet in order to maintain contact with him. Both counselors have said this would be a huge mistake and would set him up for poor relationships later on in life. I tend to agree with that.

He has seen her for who she his. As I said in the first post.. it is HE that doesn't really care if he sees her any more. It is me that feels I need to do something to honor those feelings.

Do I think he will reconnect with her later on in life...honestly, I don't know. But I do know the very mature 11 year old in him is saying that he is tired of being hurt by her. I feel strongly that asking my son to lower his expectations in order for this toxic woman to be in his life... and yes, she has been abusive even if just emotionally at this point (although I could have had her arrested several years ago for exposing him to her sexual acts with the OM since she chose to do it in a way that it was reasonable that he would see it!), is just wrong.
A mother is only important if she in facts acts like a mother. Same with a dad.

Pep... some of the things she has done is lie... and then lie some more. Break her promises about showing up to see him. Uses him as a tool to try and get me back and when it doesn't work, she puts pressure on him that "if he loved her" he would do things to convince dad (me) to put our family back together. Getting angry in front of him and cursing (my son has never heard me curse) at me... including the f-bomb. When she doesn't get her way she bad mouths me to him...etc.

My IC said the following...
My son in counseling 10 years from now is crying out to me to not let this woman poison his life any more than she already has. That it is my job as a father to protect my son from any more damage... both for his current state of mind and also for his future relationships with women.

I have asked for advice and appreciate every bit of it here. I truly do. I just am having a hard time imagining any good that can come out of asking him to lower his expectations.
Using a current situation and Lilsis as an example...
If her H wanted to come back yet refused to end his relationship with the OW...should Lilsis lower her expectations as to what her M should be in order to keep this abuser in her life? I don't think so.

Again, thank you for taking the time to express your opinions and for offering help.

MEDC

MEDC,

With what you said about mom and two IC saying to keep your son away from her I would agree. I only know about her by what is written here though.

I just don't think I could put my son in this sitch when he keeps asking me not to.


God bless

okeydokey .... you made a baby with this girl (she's not a woman) because ????

because I loved her... she never showed her true nature until afterwards... even her own family has disowned her after finding about the true person inside the all pretty and sweet wrapping.

In your original post, you only mentioned his being "disappointed" by what she does or doesn't do as the reason for wanting to cut off the tiny bit of contact he does have w/ her.

And it was his disappointment that I was addressing.



I didn't say lower his personal STANDARDS...I said lower his EXPECTATIONS for her, so that he doesn't keep getting disappointed.

Loving detachment.

Accepting a person doesn't mean you APPROVE of what they are doing. Nor does it mean you can't set up boundaries.

Obviously, if his mother is being abusive then you'd want to limit/end her contact w/ him.

~ Marsh

how much of this choice do you actually own MEDC?

Pep

MEDC,

Let me start my saying that I do not believe you should cut your XW out of your son's life. Here are my reasons:

1) As an invested parent, it is your job to teach your son how to deal/cope with people in his life who "disappoint" him and who do not meet his standards. If you cut XW out of his life, you teach him to cut people out. OTOH, if you teach him how to own his own disappointments and deal with those who do not meet his standard--yes, including his mother--then he has a lifelong lesson on how to survive in a world of disappointing, morally corrupt people.

Just to clarify, I am assuming she makes promises to him and does not keep them (thus, disappointment) versus she does things to put him in harm's way. Here are the facts of your son's life, as I see them. His mom is selfish and self-centered. His mom is manipulative and conniving. This is his female parent. When he grows up, she will still be his female parent, even if he doesn't like her very well. That "relationship" will never go away, no matter how mad at her you are. She will be his female parent as long as your son is alive!!

2) It is not your position to tell your XW how to live or how to behave, or to communicate to your son how she "should" live or behave. Now, I know this will stick in your craw, so let me tell you this. My own step-kids have a mom like your XW. She basically dropped them off with dad, had her affairs (yes, plural) and comes to see them whenever she wants to--about every 3-4 months. She has no home, lives back and forth with various men, and she takes the kids to her current BF's house. She promises them trips to Paris...or that she'll get a cute house and they are going to live with her...and they believe her (sort of). Meanwhile, time rolls on and she lives her jobless, sleep around lifestyle, and the kids are with us 95% of the time. But it is not our position to tell the kids that their mom is a wh*re (even though that may be the truth) nor is it our job to tell them how she "should" be living. We tell them, "WE do not believe that is a healthy way to live. WE believe in working for a living and paying your own bills and contributing to a household. WE believe in having a monogamous, committed relationship--a marriage--and staying married forever. Your mom may disagree." And when she hurts them or disappoints them or doesn't show up AGAIN--we teach them how to deal with their feelings and how to let her know in a healthy way.

3) In the LEGAL sense, parents are usually able to maintain some parental rights, even when they are a murderer and are in prison. My point being that just from a LEGAL point of view, I do not believe it will be possible to terminate her parental rights or force "no contact" with her, short of her having killed someone. I'm serious! Thus, no matter how incensed you may be with her manipulative, self-centered behavior, that will not be evidence in a court of law.

Personally, I would speak to the IC's and remind them that she will be a presence in his life. She will always be his parent! Thus, let's see if we can't teach your son that it's okay to say, "Well, I don't believe mom's promises. I will wait and see if they come true before I get excited" or that it's okay to realize that she is not trustworthy and not someone he can depend on day-in-and-day-out like you. Teach him what "trustworthy" is (their words match their actions) and teach him how to acknowledge that he can not trust some people because their words and their actions don't match. Teach him how to protect himself from situations in which he feels uncomfortable (like going to a friend's house or calling you) if he's over there and he's feeling pressured. See--that way he can protect himself FOR LIFE. Just cutting her out will only teach him how to run away, and give him not protection skills for later in life. Teach him what healthy relationships are like--so that he can identify what IS and IS NOT healthy. Teach him how to have personal boundaries (even with his mom). Teach him how to speak assertively and with transparent honesty--to both his mom and to you--and teach HIM when to protect his heart.

Your faithful friend,



CJ

P.S.

I put my money where my mouth is. My exH is abusive, bipolar, borderline personality disorder, serial cheater--and even he did not "lose" his parental rights. He is the father of my two kids, and they had to learn how for themselves the type of man he was. If I had bad-mouthed him or cut him off, they would not have seen it--but instead I gave them the life-tools to see it, deal with it, and protect themselves. Now, they are 20yo and 17yo and they see the illness...AND they know how to stay healthy!

BUT...he will still always be their dad.

~~CJ