lilmom - you rock! even the worst deserves fidelity, I agree. If you can't handle that, move on with dignity and civility. So many posters arguing about responsibility of BS - should they assume blame for their "part". For many BS the biggest portion of the pain is that we (I am a BW) lived there side-by-side with the SAME PROBLEMS the WS felt and experienced, but chose to live with dignity and grace, not betraying the vows. Quite frankly, betrayal is an attitude , a frame of mind, a sense of entitlement - no matter what the cost! Fortunately, it also is about OPPORTUNITY and thank god that women with cildren have little OPPORTUNITY - this keeps families together, BUT WE (not just women but the faithful) avoid betrayal EVEN AS WE EXPERIENCE the same problems. The blame game? I wouldn't even count the BS as an accessory, a witness for sure (and the rest of the family).

Thanks I Am...some days my BH definately doesn't feel this way. It's nice to hear I rock! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, I am starting to introduce him to the web site and hopefully this will help him in his recovery process more.

We are all at different places in this thing called recovery. That is why I don't get defensive. Some BS's are ready to work on their marriages and some are still just trying to work on surviving another day. I understand the feeling of being trapped in your pain and I think a lot of other WS understand this also. They dealt with bad marriages for years. Like me I am sure that they are angry at themselves for not figuring it out before they made a colosal mess of their marriages.

But that is in the past (MomAtoZ that's encoragement for you)... now we deal with the present. I'm not sure who said it, but someone said that living in the now during recovery is the only way to survive. Thinking of the past for BS and WS can take on a "fantasyland" experience...and lies I told myself(exaggerations) is what led to my mess. So, it is dangerous for me to go there. The future, I risk painting the perfect picture that no marriage can live up to --- and again it's fantasy and It's dangerous.

So, we live in the now and deal with the garbage that is there. The issues of why the garbage got there in the first place can be dealt with as we both get back on our feet. My H says that I expect too much ... sometimes yes and sometimes no. I am now dealing with my responsibility daily and expect him to deal with his as he can.

Believe me, I am married to a strong willed person...and you may be too. It may seem like they refuse to talk about anything that they did that was distructive, but they know it. My H after reading about enthusiastic agreement said he got the concepts after the A. My mouth just dropped open. I was still under the impression that he did not understand what his actions did to our marriage. I'm a big giver...he let me sacrifice and was happy. Now he sees that was distructive. So, when you think your BS is not hearing anything - they are. Let them let you know when they are ready and just live in the moment. Remember that if you didn't have a strong willed spouse they most likely wouldn't be there! They'd be long gone. So, the hard work and hard heads at times, come with the territory.

Because I don't want to cause any BS any pain. Remember, I'm the one that believes that even the worst marriage deserves fidelity...but what I also believe is that we all deserve to be loved in our marriage. As part of the recovery process, we have to figure out how we can love our spouse - "Richer, Fuller, Deeper" no matter what the side. (Isn't that better than the blame game.) And, I know from my BH that it is very difficult for this 100% of the time during recovery. But, it can happen. Several family members of ours (both sides) are living proof that marriages can be healed, after As.

Now -- all that being said. If you are a praying person and you are reading this. Lift up lilmom's H. He's having a bad day today, and went fishing! (It's the 2 steps forward and 1 step back dance we play.) Pray God will flood his soul and mind with peace, love and forgiveness.

Thanks I owe you one!
lilmom

From NOW:



You know, it did occur to me that I'm being a little defensive here... and I asked myself why. Sometimes, defensiveness indicates a need for the person to dig a little deeper and make sure they're not just trying to avoid an ugly truth. But other times, it's simply because what's being said is offensive. And I find absolutes and generalizations about WS/FWS offensive.

If someone were to assert -- in all seriousness -- that blondes really are dumb, I would expect a few blondes to come along and defend themselves. So I don't see what's so scandalous about a FWS saying, "Wait a minute gang, let's rethink this 'all... always... never' mentality when it comes to WS/FWS."

As far as owning up to our affairs -- regardless of anything our spouses have done. Fine.

But problems that existed in the marriage before the affair don't magically disappear afterward. It's not about assigning blame. It's about making things better. And if a BS did things that hurt his/her spouse before the affair... and continues to do the same things afterward... the marriage won't get better. (ETA: Same goes for the FWS. So we've got double duty to pull -- making ammends for our affairs AND correcting any destructive pre-affair behaviors.)

Isn't that obvious?

--SC

I wholeheartedly agree with you here.

I'm not trying to smack you down for wanting to defend against generalizations. I don't LIKE them, either...it's just that I don't find it really effective or necessary to defend myself against them. I have just learned to rest in the knowledge that those generalizations don't apply to me...I no longer feel the NEED to defend myself against them, because they ARE just GENERAL.
Take your blonde example....(I am blonde) If someone wants to say ALL blondes are dumb, let them. Most people KNOW that it isn't true, but more importantly, I know it isn't true. And that statement says more about the person making it than it does about blondes.
That is just my stance....I didn't mean to come across as insinuating that you had some ugly underlying reason for defending against generalizations. I'm sorry if that is how it sounded.


NOW

A thread like this, about BS culpability in the WS decision to commit adultery, shows up about every six months.

It takes very little common sense to surmise the following probably all occur from M to M:

1. The BS was a total abusive neglectful, fill in the blank, jerk and had it coming for years. It’s a wonder the saintly WS lasted as long as they did.

2. The BS was fat dumb and happy and had no clue the WS was looking elsewhere for ENs.

3. The BS was pretty darn good at meeting ENs, providing welfare and loving-is-a-verb the WS. WS had no boundaries or didn’t pay attention to the slippery slope.

4. BS is a living saint. WS is the devil incarnate and has been for some time.

5. Who knows? Shninola happens.


Take your pick of the month. Maybe customize yourself a combination of two adjacent ones.


I do know this, now:

FWW was always the taker in our M. I gave and I gave and I gave – and she took and she took and she took. And once she achieved executive status in the corporation she works for she transferred her general entitlement to the men she worked and traveled with and even to the universe at large. FWW is a very good example of the spouse who has the affair being the one who was invested less in the M from the very beginning. (See Suzet_’s post above.)

I have been reading here for years now. I really do very much believe 98.7% of the adulterers who show up on MB were the lesser investors in the marriage from the beginning. I see it over and over. It does not take much interpolation. It’s pretty obvious once you get past the excuse, justification, and rationalization.

Wow Aph,

It's nice to be reminded of what a sl*tty b*tch I really am/was...whatever.

Adultery is never right. But I know, and DH admits, I tried and tried to discuss/talk/work on our problems during our entire marriage. He didn't think there were problems.

There are things I could've done instead of an A, I could've told DH that I had feelings for someone else, I could've filed for D, I could've focused on what I could've changed, me...coulda, woulda, shoulda.

When an easy fix was presented (here I can make you feel better) I took it.

Yeah, Aph, you're probably right.

So, you place your M as a combination of 1 and 2?


Hah. I'm always right. Once I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.

No, neither one or two...

All of the above.

How do like that?

I'm not kidding.