I guess you're sitting at your comp right now like me.LOL

Well,ask yourself,why exactly did you let her get more time out of you? You hoped she'd change? Things improved a bit? You are afraid of D?

I understand the need to hope things get better.But by sacrificing your own life for something that is not working is a waste in my book.See,if you had waited all this time and things did appear to get a bit better,she worked with you on the marriage or went to some counseling,etc,then sure it's very appropriate to wait more.

Has she proven to you anything other than that she wants to be on her own?

yes, exciting weekend isn't it? ;-)
I hoped she'd change, I'm afraid of D. Things didn't really improve. I have the impression she's giving me just enough to make it through another day, week, month.
2 days ago she said we could do something on saturday. Well, she went out clubbing and came back at 3+am...not exactly my idea of a relaxing evening/night. I work the whole week, often the weekend, so going clubbing isn't exactly fun.
Proven anything? Not really. Nothing that would make me think 'wow!', this is nice. Same old thing. She goes work out, takes her time, complains about women taking their time at the gym, watches TV, goes for coffee with some friends, more workout. Day in, day out.

I don't mind being here on the weekends when I can.I'm a homebody of sorts so there's really nowhere else I'd rather be.And I like to help people when I can.

We are all a bit afraid of D.Who wouldn't be.Even though I was long since ready for the actual process in court,I was still scared.It's not a fun thing to go through.But for me it was very necessary.I wanted to end the pain I was in and my ex was nowhere near ready or willing to work on our marriage.It was over.

Nase,

Let's call a spade a card shall we? You don't really want our advice, nor do you want your friends advice. You said it" You are afraid of divorcing a woman that you have little in common with. You are afraid of divorcing a woman that uses you, and has and is very likely to be having an affair on you. You are afraid of..."

What would you do if you were NOT afraid? That is the real question. ONce you answer that, then get off of dead center and do it.

To quote Winston Churchill, "we have nothing to fear but fear itself."

Consider a job out of town, that has better hours, and make plans to lead your life. Or to quote Dr. Phil 'how's that workin fer ya."

Your call, your life, you have gotten the advice on a PRO-Marriage site. Go to your minister and talk with him/her. But, STOP, STOP being afraid.

God Bless,

JL

Man, your only hope is to pray.

My situation is almost identical with the same on going result.

Nada. Zilch.

My better half is taking me to the cleaners over my affair.

Painting the town red. Just got confirmation today that she is sleeping with one guy and contemplating sleeping with another. (Since I exposed to the OMW and he is avoiding my WW)

Also overheard that she is heading for divorce, so I am expecting something in the mail.

After reading a lot on this site, I think I may have to pre-empt and try to get the divorce on my terms (that is, get the kids)

but wait, there is still one trump card left and it is an Ace. God.

The only chance of recovering from this nightmare is faith in God. Pray for her heart to open up to you again.

If you can muster that my friend, you'll find your way through this.

nase, I am in a similar sitution I have been marriaged for 16 years my wife has cheated on me 3 times in those years.
the most recent 4 mos a go with a guy who she works with. tells me the reason why is because i did not meet her emotional needs. She never really told me what her needs were, and when asked she doesnt even know. I am tired of being the blame for her unhappiness, so i filed for divorce. Which I figured would make her happy,wrong answer she says she never wanted a divorce.I am tired of being a doormat so i must move right or wrong I need time to heal from the pain. I dont woman very much anymore.

The biggest challenge I face, I believe, is that she tells me things that make me believe (I love you etc.) but if I say something going in another direction (getting a job less time consuming, somewhere else for instance) her reactions are just ridiculous, and I believe this is because when she says nice things, she's just not being honest. There are so many red flags...

nase,

Why doesn't your wife work? Why do you let her sit around while you enable her to live the princess lifestyle? Who foots the bill for her gym membership, car, cellphone, computer and clubbing? Maybe with a j-o-b, she'll have less energy and time for all the other non-productive stuff she's doing.

You need to sit her butt down and tell her that some changes are going to be made, starting with her getting a job. If she doesn't go to work, then YOU get to make the decisions on where YOU work. She can either follow you to a new town or not.



Have some self-respect and quit being a doormat.

She doesn't work, because she doesn't want to. Actually, we are not US citizens so she actually needs a work visa, but considering her college education, multilingual skills, she'd get hired VERY easily and the comp. could sponsor her visa...but she uses this as an excuse.

I pay for the gym membership (two actually), car, cellphone...I'm looking for a different job now (I have post grad degrees, so lots of possibilities) and I'll take whatever I want. She's free to follow or not.

I just have to chime in and say that you sound like a good man...I am impressed with your ability to forigive and strive to move forward. If this marriage doesn't work for you, it appears you have the chops of what it takes to make a good marriage. Good luck...I wish my STBXH had some of your positive outlook and ability to forgive and loved me as much as you love your wife!
best.
Cis

nase,
i have been looking all over this site for someone in a similar situation. i had an a in late 06, i did the same thing, came clean,apologized, made changes, and went to counseling. In the begining things were great i felt we were really conecting. then after about 6 months the w started acting distant. getting her hair done dressing differently. i was still trying my hardest to bring her around. i attempted to surprise her by putting flowers in her car when i discovered a book " how to make a man love you" I confronted her and she admitted to having interest in a co worker. I also discovered websites on condos and apts. I reacted by telling her she had to move out. she did. but not before alot of crying and heartache. I miss her like you wouldnt believe. im an absolute wreck. im starting to regret telling her to leave. at the same time im trying to go dark and act "as if" when i see her. we do have a counseling apptmnt. in a week. thats about the only conect i have with her. so i know what you are going through. i dont know about you but im really beating myself up over the A. The W also has a friend influecing her decisions. Plus her parents. It drives me crazy!!!!!

CHTD,

I too have been looking for people in our same situation.

My affair and my now WW's affair has cost me my way of life and my marriage.

Impacted negatively on the kids, etc....

Really Really hoping to see many success stories of people saving a marriage that has faced double infidelity.

No such luck thus far. The only one I've heard of so far is LovingAnyway.

chtd,

I'm sorry you asked your W to leave.If you had been here some time and read the recovery board,you would know that in many instances,around the 6-8 month mark after an A discovery( and attempt at recovery) there is a "wall" that presents itself for the BS and it's then that there needs to be even more support to keep the marriage alive.Instead you gave her the heave ho.Now it's probably only solidified the feelings she was having about being insecure and wondering if she made the right decision to stay or not.

Anyway,maybe if you go over there and read and talk to those going through that and retry with your W and explain how you were feeling things might take a different turn.In the title of a post put something about that to draw the attention it needs.

Sorry for the tj nase.

I discovered her first a in august 2006. Although I had seen a really compelling email, I gave her the benefit of the doubt, partly because I trust people, and also because I was still blaming myself a lot (and still am). She gave me excuses that were quite bogus, but I wanted to believe them. So I did. But then, I heard a lot of nasty things like 'well, that would be convenient, wouldn't it!' (as if there is anything convenient to know the person you love cheated on you).
As a matter of fact, two weeks later, she wanted to go to LV with a friend (girl) and as a 'trust token', I said yes.

Then, as for chtd, she started doing things unusual, dressing differently (sexy sometimes, provocative other times), getting tattoos (a lot and this bugs me a LOT, it's permanent, there is nothing to do to remove them), going clubbing, etc.

The second time, she came back from 'clubbing' at 6am. Problem is that clubs close at 4am. She gave a bogus excuse again, until I learnt the truth.

Now, I think of all the comments she has made since my own (very punctual) a (and I'm assuming she didn't have anything before, for the sake of sanity and because it's beyong the point now). Some of them out of anger, I agree. But some of them, I don't know what to do with them.

yesterday we had an argument. I told her that I didn't trust her, that obviously she didn't trust me no matter what she said, and that we were going in seemingly very different directions. As a consequence, I don't see how things can work. I am certainly not going to blame myself forever and be the enabler. I told her that she was indeed saying a lot of nice things but she wasn't doing anything. She argued that it wasn't true. I just wasn't seeing all the things she was doing. I said I did see them, but the things she does are for herself, not for us as a couple.

Eventually, my a was in Nov 05. Her first (I think) started in july 06. The second started in January 07...where does it stop?

I am sorry to tell you that once someone gets into the serial infidelity track, it just keeps on happening. I am in a very similar situation. There was also double infidelity in my marriage. She was the first one to cheat on me while she was studying abroad in Argentina three years ago. I caught her, confronted her but then I visited her. We traveled to Brazil and Argentina where we had an amazing trip and time (I was in pain though). She stayed there and I came back to the US. Guess what happened two months later? She had another PA again. During this time I was so heart broken that I had two revenge affairs. When she returned we started counseling and seemed like we were moving forward. However, her lack of commitment to the marriage showed up again.

After being working on our marriage for four months and trying to get over four affairs, she decided she needed to move away again for school. We had a horrible year. Especially because counseling stopped before we went through the whole healing process. We did visit each other often though but during one of the rough times that we were passing through during this year she confessed she was having a crush on a guy that was nice to her. She said she felt trapped in the marriage and she wanted more freedom to hang out with her friends. We got over the crush and I eased up. Fast forward, a year later she changed her plans to move in together for a wonderful job opportunity in NYC. She ended up hating the job but she could never say no whenever someone offered an opportunity. The only person she always said no was to me (We are from CA). Another horrible year again. And another crush on another nice guy during that year.

We finally moved in together last August but two months later (end of October) I asked her to move out. Why? We were having fight after fight and then one night when she was hanging out with friends, she got wasted and decided not to come back home. She did not even call to let me know. She showed up the next day at four in the afternoon. Why did she want more freedom to hang out with friends? To go out and get wasted and not come back home? She crushed the trust I had in her again. After that we dragged the break up for a while and even traveled together in December. We had a great trip and we agreed on taking a break to stop the bad patterns but work our way back together. She returned to the US a week and a half earlier than I because I had to stay overseas to do some research. Guess what? Three days later after she came back from our trip and talking about getting back together... "I came back from Mexico... On Wed, I went out with friends. On Thurs I went to a concert, I met a guy. We had a date and it was fun." (These are her words. I found out about this snooping on her email. She wrote this to her friend who is a sexual wreck). I confronted her. Next email to the same friend. "I am moving back to LA. Now I am stressing out about telling the new boy I am leaving. We really like each other so it is sad. But to stay for a guy I've been out a few times with it's probably not smart." Well after reading this I confronted her again and she only put a bigger emotional distance between she and I. It was painful. It was especially painful to accept that the woman I loved for five years and to whom I gave all I had could do this to me.

We met two weeks ago and talked about getting back together again. We began emailing and then she started pushing for divorce and being really cold. We talked on the phone two days ago about the relationship and she made it very clear she does not want to work on it. Her words told me yes, her actions such as not even considering meeting to discuss divorce tell me something else. It was really hard to accept it. It is really hard to accept that something in which I invested my time, emotions and I worked so hard to fix it failed. It's been really hard to accept that the woman I loved and that made me really happy and who was with me for five years is gone. I remember when I met her I thought she was the one. I saw myself having kids and growing old with her. However, overtime there were a lot of red flags that were telling me that she had a hard time committing to a relationship but the huge love I had/have for her blinded my eyes from realizing it. After our last talk I began to accept that it is o.k. that we divorce. We were living in an unhealthy relationship and we were just inflicting pain to each other.

Ask yourself if your relationship has what it is needed to build a long lasting, fulfilling, and happy marriage that can meet your needs and hers. Consider the double infidelity. Consider that she is in a lack of commitment mood and she is only staying because it is convenient for her and maybe because she is afraid of being alone. By you staying with her she can continue abusing you and not face her fears. Isn't her behavior abusive? Her actions are showing you that she is willing to inflict pain on you. You may not want to see it because you love her and your love might cloud your wisdom. But from an outside perspective her actions are telling you "I want to be out and I do not want to commit to you".

What are you afraid of? Afraid of ending the marriage? Yes, it is painful to accept that we have to end something we had so much hopes on. But traumatic experiences help us to grow up emotionally and make us stronger as well as wiser. Afraid of the uncertain? Yes, ending a marriage is uncertain. We do not know if we will ever find someone else again that is like her/him. But what about if you work on yourself during this time to make yourself healthier so you can find a healthier woman and then have a happy marriage? There are some patterns that are being created in your marriage that are very destructive. It is full of red flags. You and only you can choose if you want to listen to them or not. But if there is no commitment from her part, your marriage is doomed to end no matter what you do. Will the affairs stop? Yes, they will stop when you decide to end your marriage. She might not stop sleeping around but they will not be considered affairs anymore because she will not be married to you. Why I say this? In my case when I asked my ex why did she slept with the second guy her answer was "It is difficult the first time, the second is easy." And in retrospective, the third time was even easier than the second. Are you willing to endure this? How much more humiliation are you willing to take? Work on yourself and remember THINGS HAPPEN FOR A REASON. If you believe in god, the karma, the Universe or just yourself, ask to whoever you believe into to give you the strength and patience you will need to endure this. On the meantime work on accepting that your marriage failed and make sure that whenever the "What if's" thoughts pop out in your head change your internal dialogue into an "I deserve better." You also have to do a lot of soul searching to understand what were your contributions for the marriage to end. Recognize, accept it, understand why you did it, understand why you had an affair, understand why you wanted to stay (fear of being alone, fear of the uncertain, etc).

In my case it is the fear of being alone and the uncertain. Would I like to change the possibility of a happier life for one that is full of pain just because I am afraid? That's the question I am trying to answer to myself right now. Once you do this, you will be on the road to forgive yourself and her. You will also become a healthier person and will be able to attract another girl that is much healthier and a better fit for you. Is it easy? Nope. I am on the same boat. In fact, I will receive the divorce papers sometime this week. She said she is going to file today or tomorrow. I am suffering too and going through a lot of pain. It's been really hard to accept and it is easier to be said than done. I am going through the process I just described above to you. As I said, when I met this girl five years ago I thought she was the one. I never thought that five years later I was going to be divorcing her and that my first marriage would end when I was going to be 28. But I am young and so are you. Keep hanging around here. There are a lot of us going through the same. You are not the only one. We are here to support each other through this tough times.

the only reason I'm going on is because I get moments where I'm still hopeful...

I do not blame you. I was hopeful for a year too. I believed my marriage would survive and we would be happy once we moved in together. I was wrong and it was really hard to accept it. To give up the hope is the most painful and saddest part. Do some soul searching. That will clarify your mind. Try to let go too. By this I mean convince yourself that you cannot control her behavior, you can only control yours. She is making her choices and you are making yours. If she choses to change and commits to the marriage, go for it with all your heart. If she doesn't, cut off your loses and leave. Either one of these will involve a lot of pain. We will be here to help you endure it.

So...the latest developments. I told my wife that I wanted a new job, where the job was at work and I was not always working (evening, weekends, holidays, etc.)
Initially she reacted strangely, took off came back the next day. Few days passed. She then told me, I thought about what you said, and I understand. I understand why you want to do something else, leave (there isn't much choice here, even though my skills are highly demanded in the US) and I definitely support you.
So I thought, wow! Cool! Then she added, but my life is here, my friends are here. So, I want to stay here. Puzzled, I asked her if she meant that I could get a job elsewhere rent something, and she stays here in the house I pay, and pay for everything. She says, pretty much yes, but she will get a job here. She has looked at one thing only that pays something like $9/hr, when I make $100K+. She went to grad school, is trilingual and all she is looking at is a job that will get her nowhere to pay the mortgage of the house, and for which she is well over-qualified. So I told there is no way she could pay the mortgage with that and looking at the history on her pc, I know she hasn't looked at anything else.
So bottom line is, she is ok that I go elsewhere, and go on paying for her here! I told her that I didn't see how things could work. She has no trust in me, I have no trust in her and we have goals so far apart that it makes no sense whatsoever.

Then I realised that the only thing that makes me hesitate is not love, etc. It's just not knowing whether she will do as she said, go for an uncontested divorce, we split assets 50-50% (with which she will be well off for a while), and that's it, or if she will fight for it, which, considering the situation would really piss me off. Here, it will go nowhere, I asked already.
At the same time I don't want to go to the bank and do the ugly thing of opening an account, put everything there, as a way to say I don't trust you.