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Joined: May 2006
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Ok heres my story....

A couple weeks before x-mas last year me and my wife werent getting along and she packed her things and moved with our two kids into her mothers house. I moved out of our rental house a month after that and moved in with my Grandmother.

She came back once when I still had the house for a couple days but couldn't take it anymore so she went back to her mothers. Her mother has a very nice house and lives very extravagantly (corvette, 4 wheelers, hot tub, etc, etc).

Since then we have been talking and "got back together". What I mean by this is that we are still married but we only see each other on the weekends. She comes and stays at my grandothers with me on the weekends.

Her mother has a nasty habit of being at the bar almost every night. It is destroying her marriage. I told my wife I didn't want her going to the bar with her mother because it causes nothing but problems. She promised she wouldn't go but still continued to go behind my back. I finally got fed up with it and told her I didn't want anything to do with her anymoeif that was how she was going to treat my feelings.

After that she quit going. So we started taling again.

One of the initial reasons she left me was because she is addicted to marijuana. We both agreed to quit (we smoked together for 8 years) on August 1st of last year. I quit but she was never able to quit. She went to her mothers and her mother gave it to her to keep her smoking (my wife goes to the drug dealer and supplies her mother with the dope). The reason she left me 2 weeks before x-mas was according to her she couldn't keep lying to me about smoking (I was putting extreme pressure on her to quit). I even told her I would leave her if I found out she was smoking again.

This brings us up to a week ago. I got tired of the way we were living our relationship. I only got to see her a couple days a week and she made no effort to make me happy whatsoever. All I thought about was her. So last Tuesday we talked. I told her I couldn't "play house" with her anymore and I was done living like this. I told her either she moved in with me at my grandmothers or I didn't want any more contact with her. She reluctantly agreed to move in with me this weekend.

Up until today this was the plan. I was looking forward to having my family back together at last. It was too good to be true though. Her parents found out she was moving out and said they would buy her a BMW. They have big plans on moving up north for the summer and my wife taking care of their 16 year old daughter (who is a little devil that they cant handle). Well this morning she calls and tells me she can't move in with me. Her reason was she didn't want to switch the kids in school again as they were jsut getting used to their new school.

We have both agreed that her mothers house is not a good environment for our kids to be raised in. Her parents fight constantly, theres tons of marijuana use, and they get absolutely no discipline.

What do I do here? All I want is for my family to be back together. I love my wife so much but it seems all she is interested in is herself. She would do anything in the world for her parents but nothing for me. SHe says she loves me so much, but after knowing how I feel about the way our lives are going she still doesn't care about my feelings enough to move in with me.

Please help!!!!!

Last edited by Domaru; 03/18/07 07:06 PM.
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First thing is to get your kids to a safe and stable environment (with you if as you say you are clean and able to care for them). A home where the mother and daughter are doing drugs together should lead to immediate removal for their safety. After that you can attempt to help your wife give up her addiction and get IC help. Protect the children first even if it means getting a court order, IMO.

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Well here is the deal with that....

Her brother is a Police Sergeant. Her step-father and brother play cards with a bunch of lawyers. She has already told me that I will never take the kids from her.

Right now I am currently unemployed.

How do I afford legal help to do this?

And if I do that she will totally hate me forever and I will have absolutely no chance of getting my wife back <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Domaru; 03/12/07 04:25 PM.
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The first order of business is getting a job. That will make EVERYTHING easier.

Then you can work on meeting her emotional needs. What are the kinds of things you were arguing about? Fix those.

If it comes to divorce, insist that your wife be drug tested. That should help with custody.

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Quote
The first order of business is getting a job. That will make EVERYTHING easier.

Then you can work on meeting her emotional needs. What are the kinds of things you were arguing about? Fix those.

If it comes to divorce, insist that your wife be drug tested. That should help with custody.

Yeah I am working on it. It's not the easiest when you don't have a car. I put all my income tax money this year into fixing her car <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> . Part of the agreement for her to move in with me is so I could take her car to work until I found a car.

We argued alot about the smoking issue. She also had a problem with my drinking even though we used to drink together. I have since quit drinking though in an attempt to get her back.

Divorce... I don't even want to think about divorce yet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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Dom,

You guys did the same behavior for eight years. Now, you've stopped this behavior. I'm delighted you did. Would you consider that what you choose to do is separate from what she does? Sounds to me like she wants to stop...she wants her marriage...and yes, she's allowing a lot of influence from others who aren't in your marriage.

Financial Security, FS, is an EN...it goes to a lot of fear issues. It's not her being bribed away or choosing material over noble...she has an EN...I'm sure you've filled it before. And I'm sure you have it, as well. Have you guys done the EN questionnaires? The LB ones? Even though you're living apart right now, doesn't mean you don't have an opportunity to work on your marriage.

And it may mean all the difference when you do live as a family again...to stay that way.

About your children...what are their ages? How do they feel about moving, where they are living, living without you? I know there are other issues distracting from the basics...the weed, living arrangements...undue influence. How great are you at the basics? Listen and repeat? Being open and honest (O&H)? Sharing, not demanding?

Part of understanding and respect within marriage is to choose your actions based on your own code, not response-based. Your W makes choices...you make choices. If you choose to do or not do based on her possible response, then you betray yourself...i.e., if you choose not to be honest because you think she'll be upset. If you choose to not be considerate because she may view you as a doormat...or a bully...then you are making her your master...which is a terrible burden, as well as not in reality...because your choice is inherent...part of being human...so is hers.

I strongly suggest going to Al-Anon meetings...which adds to your support base and helps with understanding your own stuff. A solid place to go when you have an addict in your life...because there is overlap due to your own stopping something you used for years, also, you may believe others can do the same, in the same time period or way.

I understand you fear greatly, feel a lot of pain right now...and you sound committed to saving your family, your marriage. You've found a great place to get advice, be heard and to share. Thank you for being here.

LA

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Dom,

In my humble opinion, you should worry a lot less about your W, and a lot more about your children. If they grow up in the environment you protray at your Inlaw's house, they will very very messed up kids.

Your W does not love you as much as she loves drugs, booze and easy money from Mom and Dad. I would also suspect that she is not taking very good care of your kids if she is out drinking with her Mom at night.

You need to get your priorities straight or you will lose your children and if you find them later in life, they will be so messed up, they won't be able to function.

Get the job situation handled. Get to AA as has been suggested, and get your kids out of that environment. If they are old enough to go to school, they are going to be very very negatively affected by your W's behavior.

Please think about this.

JL

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Well I told her to come and look at this page. Her reply when she saw it was she gave me 9 years to take care of her and the boys and I couldn't.

They never went without anything when they were living with me. I worked the whole time and we always had money. Maybe not rich but we always had the things we needed.

I am going to concentrate on myself. If she loves me she will find a way to work it out. Until then I am done. She has put me through too much.

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Ah, Dom...

You're taking her perception, her beliefs, as The Truth, not her truth.

Listen to her...she's can't be blaming you because you can't give blame...you can only take it. It's like offense. You have to reach for it...and I'm asking you to hear her OPINION to know...and leave the responsibility where it truly is...

She feels like she gave and gave...endured, sacrificed...gave up parts of who she was waiting for you to change. That was her choice. She had no control, not through earning love, punishment, sacrificing or enduring of you...nor you, her. We don't have that kind of power, as humans...even when two become one...we remain two whole people in one union.

Her own choices created resentment in her...just as you created resentment in yourself...and you've both been building, maintaining and feeding your resentments...which makes your experience in the world be about entitlement and disrespect...because it's poison you've been taking...and it's time to stop.

Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. Not real at all. Purely self-destructive. Our own expectations cave us in and we blame our partners for it...when they are our own.

Hear her...listen and repeat. "I hear you believe you had a time limit for me to measure up and I didn't, is that correct?"

Clarify...don't judge. Her opinion is valid...it's hers. Not The Truth...HER truth.

What's yours? Do you think you gave her a time limit to change into someone else? When you fell in love with each other, brought children into the world...she was your best friend, your partner. As time wore on, she became your enemy, you felt attacked, ignored, withdrawn from, abandoned, judged, inadequate...probably a host of things, off and on, up and down...inside and out...and you may have made her your enemy from fear.

Doesn't mean either you didn't love...just means you shifted from acting from love to reacting to your own fear.

Entitlement says things like that, like "I am done." Gives us the idea we're strong, in charge, are aware of our power...and you're not. Not if you're reacting instead of choosing your actions...without rancor, pain or fear. That's reactive. That's what both of you have been doing for eight years (first year is lovey dovey)...

Being done isn't power...nor an answer. Being done now means you'll repeat this relationship again and again...and so will she. That's why divorce isn't an answer. What we don't learn, we recreate.

Your wife throws her power away and feels powerless. So do you. You both take on what isn't yours, which tells the other, "You're inadequate, defective" and we feel that way...and often, don't know why...that we're doing it to ourselves.

Your children are your lifetime commitment. Look out for them. You may have put your wife through too much (not possible) and she may have put you through too much (not possible); your children are innocent. You both are putting them through hardships, trauma and abandonment...and any is too much.

Realign, Dom...you're not bad or wrong...you're not weak. You're reactive. That's great to know. Choose your life, stop reacting to it...it's not handing you anything; you're half of the relationship. You create half. Get to understand you're not alone...humans do this...we are taught, nay, trained to do this...and it's all backwards.

Your perception is valid, too...you belief which sounds different from what your W believes is as valid as hers.

Neither is The Truth.

If you don't want to repeat and recreate this misery...learn now. To know, not to judge. We judge actions, not people...you are separate and equal human beings in a real marriage...

Some of us are taught that those we love the most are those we are allowed to accuse, abuse and hate the most...and we do it.

I'm asking you to revoke that permission. It's not true. And it's tearing you apart from the inside and you're doing it.

LA

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Loving you are a very smart person. I feel like you nailed it right square on the head.

But yet I still don't understand what you are suggesting I do. I love her so much but it just seems to me that she doesn't love me, just keeps me around for what I can do for her.

She has had a huge problem with being dishonest with me in the past. I guess that's why I judge based on her actions rather than "know" her for what she says. I hope you can understand what I am saying.

I am willing to do anything I can do to make this work but I cannot bear living apart from her and my kids. It is driving me absolutely crazy.

Please tell me what I need to do to fix myself.

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OK my wife agreed to post her opinions on me and what went wrong with our relationship later tonight.

Maybe you guys can help us sort this mess out.

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Dom,

"But yet I still don't understand what you are suggesting I do. I love her so much but it just seems to me that she doesn't love me, just keeps me around for what I can do for her.

She has had a huge problem with being dishonest with me in the past. I guess that's why I judge based on her actions rather than "know" her for what she says. I hope you can understand what I am saying.

I am willing to do anything I can do to make this work but I cannot bear living apart from her and my kids. It is driving me absolutely crazy.

Please tell me what I need to do to fix myself."

It's the last sentence which comes first...Dom, you aren't broken. You don't need to be fixed...first step is awareness...last step is acceptance. You can learn all the steps in between.

First you have to know you aren't broken.

Your wife isn't broken, either.

You are both whole, complete, marvelously made human beings...before a word was spoken or an action taken.

Your essence. Her essence.

First we recognize wholeness and then we learn halves.

You are half of every relationship you have. All humans can only be half...that's our limit. We cannot be a whole relationship. Not designed that way.

Our half is our stuff...our perception is half of communication and experience...she can be loving your brains out and you may not feel loved. Comes from your own filter and what's in the way...

Our beliefs are what we live and choose our lives from...you may have been reacting to your feelings instead of living directly from your beliefs...now, you get to choose. Actually, you always chose...now you're aware you do. So by knowing your half...what's in your perception, how you're hearing something said...instead of taking as stating The Truth...you get to know you're receiving it through your own truth...good to be aware of.

Trust is also two halves...one half to earn and the other to bestow...both are by choice. You can't make someone trust you...nor can you be made trustworthy. Half and half.

There really is balance in the universe, once you realize, it's isn't all your spouse (can't be, can it? You're half, they are half)...and not all you.

Begin there.

Next, eliminate blame from your belief system. It isn't real to begin with. Reality is that humans do and don't do. They are solely responsible for themselves...their stuff, their choices and actions...because that's all we really can control.

I didn't make up these rules...they are the laws of human dynamics...God's design for us to choose to believe or not.

Total respect for our choices. No blame.

Humans do, and there are consequences; humans don't do, and there are consequences. Don't think of consequences as good or bad...that's linked to blame...think of them as motion within the world...because they are...there are natural and logical consequences. Natural is when you are angry and yell, the sounds waves lengthen, increase and move...they ripple...humans feel diminished, fear increases and we go to our inner child when we are yelled at. Those are the natural consequences...does damage. We may feel at the time we are entitled to do damage, because we feel damaged...forcing balance. Hurt and you hurt back. Give to get. Tit for tat.

That's not balance...that's reactivity, as I've said.

Logical consequences are those we impose...you yell at me and my first imposed consequence (which is in addition to the natural ones) is to state my truth..."I hear you yelling at me. That's abusive. Stop. I want to hear you and I am reactive to yelling."

This isn't the best example because yelling isn't what you think it is...to some people, they hear tone of voice, not volume, as yelling...others hear volume only...even loud laughter affects them like yelling...still others perceive violent body language (even if self-directed) with terse words as yelling. Some experience all of these as yelling...it varies. See the half that is perception? You don't have any control over what is perceived as yelling...'cuz it's perceived. You know what it is to you so you can revoke your own permission to yell (volume), and insert harsh inflections (like punctuating audibly), and regulate your body movements (relaxing your arms and shoulders from choice). All of these are abusive because they are demonstrating...acting out...anger, frustration...rather than stating them.

That's a logical consequence...first one. If you continue to permit yourself to abuse, next step is, "I'm feeling flooded. I continue to hear you attacking me, yelling specifically. I need ten minutes alone to calm down so I can hear you." And I remove myself for ten minutes and return.

This isn't controlling, manipulating or refuting. It's informing...and enforcing. Doing what I need to hear, to understand...to acknowledge what you're communicating. I'm doing my half. I can't control yours. Only you can.

And you can flip this over with yourself or your wife in either role. Until you actually state calmly, confidingly, "Wow, I am shaking from anger. I don't know where it's coming from. I feel like yelling. I think I don't feel heard or understood", you won't know that when you share like this, within minutes, your anger drops dramatically (or frustration). And it does. Your head clears, and usually, you can hear what triggered the signal...breathing deeply helps. "Okay, now I remember. You were stating your opinion about our marital history as fact...and I took it as fact instead of your opinion. I heard you felt that I failed you at every turn in our marriage, is that correct?"

Sounds robotic, inhuman, not in our experience. I can tell you, it's definitely human...we are capable of so much more than we've ever been shown. To do this, on faith, is to experience deep self-respect and respect of your partner. I can't describe what bloomed in my chest when I did this...heard my DH...his words, repeated for confirmation or clarification...and did not react to them. Talk about brave, true, strong and real. Wowsers. And when he did the same for me, I melted. I really did. Inside, the hot stinky air inside my resentment balloon deflated greatly...my pain halved itself and my anger disappeared. From being heard.

Not fixed.

He didn't make me feel this way...I felt...in response from being heard and understood.

90% of all marital problems aren't to be solved...they are to be understood. Acknowledged. Heard. Validated.

Ohmygosh, Dom...all that conflict wasn't real.

Think about it. We shut out pain...which means if we believe our partners cause us pain, we shut them out...make them the enemy.

And they're not. They're our partners. That's our half. We can't control their half. Yet when we change ours, everything changes.

In the book I highly recommended...you will find many forms of verbal abuse...one which struck me dumb (okay, no wisecracks) was withdrawing is abusive. My DH wouldn't speak due to his fear of conflict...escalation...he'd retaliate through the silent treatment...and that's abusive. Why? Because it's dishonest. Lying by omission, not sharing your stuff, is like wiping someone out...again, makes our partner into our enemy...and you know what else it does? It annihilates the partner who withdraws.

Because when we believe our pain comes from our partner...not to us as a signal for us and about us, then we are telling ourselves we are nothing. Literally nothing. We are telling ourselves all our happiness, sadness, anger, frustration, joy and contentment comes from others...that we are empty and have to be filled up from the outside.

OUCH!

How abusive is that? We are not defective, broken or partial...we are whole...our authentic selves aren't bad or wrong...God didn't make no junk, ever. So to tell ourselves others cause, control and cure us...gives us a ton of pain and anger signals because that's a horrid way to live.

Signals to notice if you're living this way: You feel empty (because that's what you're telling yourself you are through your actions and beliefs, your perceptions)...feeling out of control (because we aren't acknowledging our real responsibility...we're shoving it down our partner's throat), powerless (we aren't aware we are CHOOSING to believe this, therefore feel it), taking all the blame (feels defective and bad), drained of energy (resistance self-consumes energy and your innocent self resists mightily to lies), used up (because we are using others up) and invisible (we've wiped ourselves out of existence).

These are all signals, not conditions...not diseases or sentences. They are signals and signals are temporary. And we've been taught others make us feel this way.

When you hear, "I feel angry, robbed" and you KNOW that's a signal to the speaker about the speaker...you won't feel reactive...so you really can calmly, from respect, answer, "I hear you feel angry right now, as if you've been robbed of something."

I know you can hear the difference...you aren't owning that you made her angry or robbed her...you're respecting her perception and feeling...you're there in presence, interested to understand, not to judge or cure...and THAT is partnering.

We've been taught predominantly (our parents, the media), how to parent, not partner.

Every time you've aimed to please, you've aimed to cheer someone up, change their feelings, thoughts, beliefs...to help them...you've disrespected them and the backside of that message is "You're incapable, defective and wrong."

It's even poor parenting, to be honest. Pleasing is abusive...you may feel kind, generous, happy to change someone's mind, their perception or perspective...inside them, you're reinforcing a dark, terrible voice they hear all the time.

When you listen and repeat, you live in reality. Their stuff is theirs...yours is yours...and it's all we can reasonably handle, let alone, be responsible for. Which is why us putting our feelings...like you not choosing to believe she loves you anymore...onto her is unreasonable and wrong. If you put it on her, then her stuff is on you...each responsible for what the other is experiencing.

And you have no control. When we feel attacked, threatened, our brain hands us pain and fear cumulatively from the first time we felt threatened, all the way through to the present. Which is why over something small, you may have reacted volcanically, out of proportion...and your brain isn't against you...it doesn't know time. It increases the signal because it perceives the same event is happening again from the same source...your enemy...includes when your best friend when you were four punched your lights out...when your mother told you she was sick with disappointment over something you did...when your 13-year-old girlfriend told you she was dumping you after going out a week...and when that teacher ignored your question...and your first boss told you that you were worthless...

And this is your partner, the woman you chose to love, for life...saying she feels suckered, wrong, unhappy...and you hear it's your fault, you're to blame, you're broken...and your brain hands you all that other stuff from years and years at once...as a signal. You are used to reacting as if it's truth, fact...and it isn't. It's what she feels. A great place to start.

No wonder we feel flooded...why the past overlaps, why we reason if she lied before (by omission or directly) she may be lying now...when it may have been years since she really did lie...feels like now...and it isn't. You don't know. You can't know. Your half is to choose to believe her truth is her truth and respect her and that you don't know.

It's okay not to know. Our whole lives are to learn how to be okay with what we don't really know until we're shared with.

We're taught we're safer if we assume, get the jump on possibilities, mindread...that's love. That's knowing and being known.

Nope. It's assuming and being assumed. Terribly painful. All fantasy. Harley calls them DJs...Disrespectful Judgments. Clearing those out...seeing what is the truth (actions) from our own truth and others' truth...we can judge the truth, not personal truth. Not within our domain.

God's put some really cool tools in our design...to guide us. One is the ability to project...when we shun ourselves and live through others, how do we signal us about our stuff? How do we even connect to ourselves, get our attention? Well, you don't feel loved by her...probably comes and goes, sometimes, intensely...you could be projecting to get your own attention...because you aren't loving yourself...you've abandoned yourself. When our focus is on others, swallowing them, every word, nuance, gesture, action...then we have abandoned ourselves...we are living where we have no control, no existence.

Huge Ouch! (Btw, saying "ouch" is an awesome way to communicate you're feeling something, like a smack, and trying to sort it out...doesn't say where the pain is coming from...doesn't say the other person hurt you...just when they made a statement, much like the one your wife did, it hurt...doesn't mean she's hurting you...could be your own taking it as you're a failure, a loser, a nothing...HUGE PAIN in that. Big OUCH. Learning to say it out loud and work through makes you both a team, caring for one another, not enemies, attacking.)

What we do to ourselves (abandon, reject) we will do to others. God's design is unyielding, no shortcuts or go-arounds...and what you won't do to yourself, you WON'T do to others.

If you yell inside yourself, tear yourself down, punish and make yourself earn love...then you'll do that to others. You really will. That's not in your control...that two-way street. You can learn a lot about how you're really treating others by discovering and understanding what you do inside you.

Bet you were taught to be harder on yourself than anyone could be, eh? I was. I can relate. So if you listen and repeat to understand your wife...guess what? You'll be safe to listen to yourself, clarify and confirm yourself...and then you'll feel loved...immensely...because you already are. You really are.

You'll feel loved by her...your kids, your family, your coworkers...it's amazing. You can live in abundance and plentitude...overflow with love...no filling up from the outside (where you have no control)...and your life changes drastically.

Freedom rocks. Real responsibility IS joy. Loving consciously, acting from choice and awareness you're choosing (not earning) fills you up, stuff you, spills over and floods your life.

You both are capable human beings. You're not broken. You've been misinformed. Choose to make your intent pure...not to get love...but to understand, really hear, know and acknowledge...not judge. Decide to live from respect, which is truth...your highest, most cherished goal to know and be known.

And you'll find you are lovable (you always were 'cuz you are made from pure love), acceptable, whole and marvelous.

And so is your wife.

Nine years together...going from Phase I of marriage where we are in love with each other's presented selves...putting out our best images for each other...partners, equals, completing one another...like coming home for the first time. It's not. It's actually fantasy.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Phase II...the best comes off...and real selves get revealed...we feel comfortable enough (not fearful of abandonment) to show anger, depression, frustration...and this in itself is an act of intimacy...only it feels like betrayal. You aren't who she thought you were...and she isn't who you thought she was...(not true, btw...just fantasy breaking time...birthing into real)...and it's hard, and tumultuous...and has a lot of triggers to mothers and fathers and FOO (family of origin)...which is why you were attracted to each other so strongly...and you feel great, hurtful betrayal...hey, I thought you were gonna help me work through all that early stuff...not RELIVE it!!!

So we see each other as enemies...and still, we do love...long for our partnering, fall into parenting (which is heightened when we HAVE children, also...difficult for humans to switch instanteously between roles)...which triggers even more FOO stuff, enemy stuff from old pain feeling new again...and old at the same time, wearing us down, losing our way...because we lost our perspective.

Know she is your partner and KNOW you are hers...not enemies. You are not out to destroy one another...you are to understand each other...know what each of you believes and respect different beliefs, feelings, thoughts...they won't kill you...may feel like it...and learn to heal your own wounds, issues, stuff...side by side. That's true partnering. Equal and capable...separate, whole humans.

You are.

Just as we chose to disconnect from each other...a million different ways...so are there a million ways to reconnect. God's design...his grace...learn your tools, how you really come together to find your own lost and disowned parts...and know for real, you really were whole all the time.

Steps continue with radical honesty, ownership, acting on your love to meet needs...listening is a huge one, btw, for everyone...to know each others' stuff...especially fears...so we can remember we are not to be feared...we face them together. We are not each others mirror, definers, diviners...we are partners. Not for me to tell you who you really are...that's for you to tell me...share with me. Not for you to say "this is the way it is" when that's your valid, real perception...and tear my own down.

We are partners.

Repeat this phrase...it's truth...and you choose it.

Every act your wife has done has been her choice, for her reasons...and I believe...from her love, at times, and from her fear and pain at others. So have you chosen to act, speak, not speak, not act...neither is the victim nor the monster...you're both humans trying to figure this whole life thing out...you vowed to do so together, for great reasons...remember those reasons. They are true ones. You made them. You chose...each other.

No one out there will be better for either of you...you guys will just repeat these patterns until you get them...and most go through a lot of relationships, using up people like tissue...and it adds to grief and chaos, does not bring peace.

This enmeshment...where you're responsible for her feelings, happiness, stuff...and she's responsible for yours...is normal and common. What we've been modeled as love...and it breaks down...because we don't have that power to make anyone anything but a sandwich. We truly are gifts to each other...our presence, our time, our intent...not ourselves. We remain separate, equal and whole human beings in a human marriage.

To believe or not believe your wife is judgment...lose the judgment. It's a blade you hold in your hand without a handle...when you wield it, you cut yourself as much as you cut others. Lay it down.

Begin again...real selves to real selves...share what you discover in you and be open and safe to be shared with by her.

You're both worth it. Valuable people. I believe in you.

One more step inbetween awareness and acceptance...(there's a bunch)...choose to act from your valid, adult beliefs...not your resulting feelings. Feelings are signals to us from our beliefs...to choose to not act loving because you don't feel loving is like living backwards. You're reacting to a signal...not from your belief. Gets messy, reactive...and you experience life like that, from a messy, reactive perception.

Beautiful part is...when you choose to act from your belief you love her, and your acts of love, meeting her ENs in creative (self-affirming) ways...and you own your choice, even when you don't feel loving...when you do these things, share your stuff...you will be signalled heavily you love...you will feeling loving. Upward spirals are real...we only tend to know downward ones and call the upward ones luck.

No luck. It's getting your stuff into clear lines...through awareness and desire...living to your own code, not basing your choices on possible response. Together, you can spiral upward and thrive. So can your children.

Your choice.

LA

P.S. This is why marital counseling helps so much (good ones do) because they provide a neutral ground where you can reset yourselves to be partners, not enemies...they act as guides...you do the work, get to see each other as clean slates, new humans...they don't cure, either. Counseling is worth a ton. I didn't believe that until it helped save my marriage. I've never made an investment more productive or beneficial. And I was committed to it because it cost me...and to divorce costs a lot more.

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Well I guess she must have fallen asleep or something.

Pretty dissappointing I was under the impression she knew it was important to me. : (

Thanks for the great post once again LA. Gives me lots to think about!!!

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One of the biggest issues I have is financial security. I am not comfortable and your grandmothers house can't you tell(Please don't tell her I said that)? Do you really want me to live somewhere I don't want to be? It isn't about you I love you but the things you do and say are wrong and I really feel like you need to talk to someone because you are very insecure and that is one of the biggest problems I have with you. You can't just accept that I love you and trust me you always question and judge everything I say and do. I don't care to be judged by you or anyone else. There is one person qualified to judge and he isn't on this website. You only see the negative side of things never the positive.Listen to Keith Urbans song Stupid boy. This is how I feel. You need to break me down to make yourself feel better. You send me a text that says Are you having fun at the bar with your boyfriend? And I am laying in bed with our son. You have way too much time on your hands to sit and make up this image of whats going on when really you have no idea. You need to focus your energy on finding a job and getting yourself together. You will never be happy with me if you aren't happy with yourself. Once you work on getting yourself together we can work on being together. Is it too much to ask for you to get us a house of our own? We are too old to be living with family. I put all my energy into our kids and you make it sound like they are neglected which they are not. They are very happy. You are not fair to me and you are not fair to yourself and I don't know how to resolve these problems.

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Domswife -
Welcome.Glad you came here and posted. Sometimes it is hard to figure out how to help when you only get one side.

Domaru -
Okay, now you know that one of your wife's top needs is financial security. I would work real hard on getting a job, and getting a place for your family. How long have you been unemployed? Are you out everyday looking for work, and putting in resumes? Not having a car will make things slower, but it is still very doable.

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I have only been laid off a few weeks now. I cant exactly just go anywhere and turn in a resume because I dont have transportation. I live in the suburbs. there arent any busses here.

And yes I have still been working on getting a job. I applied at a factory my aunt and uncle work at so I can ride back and forth with them until I can get transportation. The receptionist said they would be hiring very soon so I have my fingers crossed.

I have read LA's posts over and over and I have decided to not worry about my relationship with my wife anymore. If she loves me she will remain faithful and wait for me to improve myself to the point I can sustain a relationship again.

Until then I will work on self respect, self confidence, and of course the job situation.

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* UPDATE *

Well after we atarted talking on these forums, I sent her a text message Wednesday. It basically said I was working on myself, working on getting a job, that I love her more than anything, and that I am willing to do anything it takes to make our marriage work.

Wednesday and Thursday we talked a little bit and Friday when she brought the kids home we really clicked so I asked her to stay the weekend with me. She said she would have to think aobut it. My brother called em and asked if I wanted to take my kids with him and his son to Chucky Cheeses (kids arcade/pizzaria). I told him yes and called my wife to see if she wanted to go. She met us up there and things went great. She ended up coming to my grandmothers afterwards and we talked until like 2 in the morning. She went home after that I think it was because she doesnt want her parents to be upset with her for seeing me. Her mom read this post and is very upset with me right now. She cant handle the truth. It kinda bothers me because my wife sometimes cant tell me she loves me on the phone or she does it ver quietly... anyways. She ended up spending Saturday night with me and it went great. We talked again until like 2am. She is having alot of problems living with her parents and she told me she was seriously considering moving in with me. She told me she was off the fence now and needed me. She told me she knew her and the kids shouldnt be there and would be better off here. I still dont understand whats keeping her there but I am not worrying about that right now. I am concentrating on myself jsut like LA and the others said.

I told her I am not going to get my hopes up, expect it to happen, or pressure her to do so. If thats what she truly wants then it will happen right? I told her I was working on improving myself and she told me she can tell the difference already. She even asked me if I would love her like this forever.

So that's where we are at. Thanks everybody for all the great advice. It is really helping me which leads to it helping us get our relationship back together. I cannot thank you all enough.

On a side note she is having a huge problem with her step-dad sexually harassing her. He keeps making comments, and has even went as far as to ask her to go out to dinner with him, asked her to go put on a thong, and to go in the hot tub with him. This man IMO is pathetic. I tried to give her advice but I just didn't know what to say. She doesn't want to hurt her mother and tell her what he is saying, though she has told her mother that he is bothering her.

Can you guys give me some advice I could pass along to her regarding this? Also any additional advice for me would be greatly appreciated.

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Glad to hear that things are going well. Stay on course, and keep looking for a job.

As far as her stepdad/sexual predator, she needs to tell him that if he doesn't stop NOW, that she will tell her mom. Then if he continues, she needs to tell mom.

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Quote
As far as her stepdad/sexual predator, she needs to tell him that if he doesn't stop NOW, that she will tell her mom. Then if he continues, she needs to tell mom.

Does this justify a new post?

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Your wife is going to need to be the one who takes action. I'm hoping that she doesn't find it flattering that the pervert shows his interest.

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