Rock,

Visit the MomA-Z thread would'ya? I've had a bad day and could use some advice.

Mom

I'm on my way Mom, I was just getting done watching my beloved Spartans lose to the dang TarHeels.

Uh oh. Bad night. How in the world does anyone get through this. I know that my FWW feels frustrated because I guess she does not know what to do. I tell her that she is doing fine. It's just me and how I am able tohandle things.
I must just be a weak person I guess. I wish I could just stand up to this and be tough.
It's just so hard sometimes.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

JL, you hit the nail on the head when you said that I do not know where that woman went to and how my FWW came back. I don't even know at what point that happened. If there was just a certain day that she realized some things or what. Do you think that it is important that I try to understand that?

I wish there was some big blueprint for recovery that I could read. I don’t know what else to do anymore. I am so tired of hurting. I have to make a stand at some point and conquer all these negative thoughts, triggers and feelings that continually play in my head.
I think that I feel like I need a big statement of commitment from my FWW then I can start to put things behind me and start t o let go and move on. At least that’s how I think I feel. In her defense, she has been very good as of late. She seems to be doing everything that she knows what to do to help me and is probably getting very frustrated. I keep telling her though that most of the problems lately are my fault. My fault because I feel that I’m not always handling my emotions very well.

I think that I fear that maybe she isn’t as committed to our marriage as much as I am. I fear that maybe something else will happen somewhere down the road perhaps. I don’t know. I really have to identify some of my fears.
I want to be able to move forward in our marriage and grow closer together again the way we used to. I never used to be much of an emotional or compassionate husband. Well, I think that I was, I just never showed it. Now I can’t help but to wear my emotions on my sleeve and she tells me that it’s hard for her to accept it now. I just hope that in time she will come to accept it. This whole situation has changed my life.
The problem now is that I am somewhat stuck in a rut, wondering why this happened, or how could she do this to me. I also try to fill in the blanks in the storylines of parts that I don’t know of. I either have to know everything I want to, or I have to learn to let some of my curiosity go and concentrate on moving forward towards forgiveness.

My self esteem has been shattered. It was low enough before this all happened. She used to be attracted to me. I’m not quite sure anymore. Sure I’m not the best looking guy in the world. I’ve put on a few pounds. I keep telling myself that I am going to work on getting myself into better shape. Geez, I’ve got a brand new treadmill and exercise machine in the basement. Why can’t I get motivated? If I get myself into better shape will she love me again? She always told me that our sex life was great. Why did she have to go and get it from someone else? There are a couple of embarrassing things that have to do with our sex life that possibly could have factored into things I guess.

I just want my life back. No wait, I want a better life.
That’s all the pity I have for myself at the moment.
Rock

Here I am yet again. I was just thinking about the “talk” that I tried to have with my FWW last Friday.
She told me that she feels like if she has to come home everyday from work she has to show me remorse and that she feels guilty if she comes home in a good mood. Not because of her, but because she feels that I will be upset if I see her in a good mood. She told me that she has to come home and “bow” to me everyday. WTF? She told me that she always has to wonder how I am feeling or what kind of mood I am in that day.
I told her that I will put that all the “how I’m feeling” to rest. I told her that I am crushed and I am just dealing with things. Sometimes better than others. I am not just thinking about what a terrible person she was. I’m just dealing with what happened.
I don’t know how most of you BSs feel about SF with the WS. She told me that I have forced it upon her as if to reclaim my prize. She told me that she no longer wants to SF and that she hates it.
I admit that maybe close to D-day that I did want to SF quite a bit, because maybe I thought that I had to prove that I was “better”. I don’t know. It bothers me now because she says that SF sucks. Yet it was ok and she pursued it with OM as much as she could. I think that is one of the reasons that I feel like such a piece of garbage to her. It really is a blow to my self esteem.
I also have to admit that SF with her is getting harder and harder because all I can imagine is her doing this with him. It sucks.
I love her so much and I really desire SF with her, but it is so bittersweet. I’m sure a lot of you know how that is.

Rock- please think about calling the Harleys. They have seen this sitch many times and they have a way of cutting right to the point.

MOM,

You hit the nail right on the head. I truely can not understand why he would love me after I hurt him so deeply. And I really do not want to hurt him anymore.

I think what JL suggested was good advise. I have even told him to wrtie down his questions. It seems when we have these sessions some of the same questions and comments come up. It just does not seem to move on from there.

Thank you for being here for MRR, I know he appreciates your views and advise.

Mrs. Rock

Mrs.R, I too ask my FWW the same questions over and over at times. Don't know why I ask them, but my wife always answers them. If your H asks the same question 1,000 times then you should answer him 1,000 times. After a while the questions seem to change and will move on to new ones until there are no more questions left to ask. Not many anyway.

All part of recovery

This is HER guilt talking, those are her feelings. Have you expressed to her that you do not expect that? Maybe validate you understanding her feelings but that you want a happy wife. Think about the guilt you have after 12 years? How much is that magnified for her with it being so recent and 3 times over.


Like I suggested, maybe you could set aside a time for R talk. A time period where you can plan your questions ahead of time, you assure her you will listen and not lose it...and then the subject's closed until the next "session." What do you think of that?


My feeling would be that if she hates SF it's not necessarily you, it's that SF is a big trigger for her. It's a very up close, personal reminder of what she has done (taken away?) from you. Maybe it's the feelings the come flooding back when she's having SF with you that's the problem, not you?


I think she knows this and that is why it is hard for her. It may just be one of those things that takes time to recover from? You're hurt because of what she did, she hurts because she knows you're hurting. I don't know if this is a valid suggestion or not, but how would you feel if she expressed remorse, how sorry she was she hurt you, told you how much she loved you and was grateful to you and that she only wanted you, right before or during SF? I read a similar suggestion in another thread a while back.
Do you think that might help break that barrier?


Mom

I guess that's how I feel. I know that she is sorry and feels remorse. I know that I don't need her to come home and apologize to me everyday. I think I just need one big talk of remorse or a heartfelt letter or something. I don't know because then I will start feeling bad for making her do that. It's a vicious cycle.
As a FWW did you do something like that for your BS? Am I expecting too much?

Mrs. Rock,

I will repeat what Maybe2Late said. Asking the same questions over and over is really the BS checking. What are they checking.

Well the obvious answer is:

1. How truthful you are. If the answers keep lining up, then what happens is the BS builds trust.

2. They are checking to see if anything is changing within you. Are you seeing things differently? Are you reevaluating things? Is your perspective changing?

3. They are checking themselves. This one is a biggie. It is my opinion people often ask the same questions because they are checking themselves to see if their pictures, explanations, their memory, and their gut are still telling them the same thing. They NEED this outside reinforcement.

One thing that seems to be clear from reading here for many years is that the requestioning is really not about what the WS did, but what they will do. So it is not an attack on what the WS did but trying to figure out the future.

Mrs. Rock, if you really want this marriage to heal, you should probably set Mr. Rock down, tell him to zip his lip <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, and then explain to him what you need from him as a husband. Haven't you figured out from his posts here, that the piece that is really missing right now, is his place in your life? He doesn't know where he fits in your plans for the future. I am guessing you had similar thoughts when he cheated on you.

He needs to know you need him, want him, and why. He needs your perspective on things and how you see yourself NOW.

All of this is NOT about what you did. It is about what you two will do in the future. And to put a fine point on it, it is about how you see your marriage in the future. What do YOU want it to look like? What is his role in it? How do you see your role in it? In short what is your perspective on this marriage and where YOU want it to go.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

No I don't think you are asking too much. I understand you feeling bad for "making" her do that but maybe it's all in how you word it. If you stated that you think you have figured out what you need that would help you overcome a lot of your hurt right now (heartfelt apology/gesture/letter, etc.) but that you only want her to do it when she sincerely feels it, not just to placate you. Tell her you will leave that in her hands and not badger her about it.

After dday, DH and I talked via IM and email a lot while he was at work. I remember sending several emails where I expressed remorse over what I did and gratitude to him for staying with me and saving me from screwing up my life! I did leave him notes/cards in his car from time to time as well. I was/am very complimentary of him in front of our kids and others (you're so lucky to have such a great dad, etc...).

I think though that the biggest thing that showed my remorse was in actions, not words. I tried to find ways to show him that I loved and appreciated him, doing things out of love instead of begrudgingly. Seeing the effort I was making at improving the M, by reading books and here, etc.

You need more than just her sticking around. You need to feel like she's fully invested. She's lost right now, still reeling from accepting the pain she inflicted. As you remember, it is quite a shock to your sense of self. But I think she'll get there. I really think you both can get past this and be happy again, I really, really do.

Wow JL. You are amazing. You are correct as always. You really have much insight to all of this. You should be getting paid. Lol.
You make me realize things about myself and my search for healing that I wasn't even aware of.
It's true that sometimes I ask things just so I can get her point of view of things. Just tonight we were vaguely talking about OM2. I asked her what she thought of him now.
I am always trying to find out how she feels about things.
Unfortunately though all I got was a sarcastic "No, I think fondly of him".
I just want to know that she thinks he is a POS like I do. Maybe she does, I don't know. I'm always searching.
Thanks again for your great help!
Rock

Say hi to Mrs. Rock, and tell her I'm still thinking about her.

As for your "discussions", I think many marriage counselors tell you to write questions or thoughts down and put them in a jar. Then pick an hour each week to sit down and talk.

I can see where Mrs. Rock would start feeling badgered, especially after a hard day at work, and the basement flooding. At least if it was a set time each week, she would only have to dread one day.

As for the not dating a lot, that is a very common problem for women that found their spouse very early. They continue to have the fantasy that there were all these wonderful men out there, and they missed out on all the fun.

In truth, dating is not all that much fun, pretty much one disappointment after another. But of course she doesn't know that.

Thanks for the tip believer.
I said hi to Mrs. Rock for you. She is sitting right here.
Do you think that the "missing out on all the dating" thing is just a woman's thing? I didn't really date anyone else either and I feel that if I am still in love with the woman that I wanted to spend my life with, then I haven't missed a thing.

Really, I think this is her pain and shame showing through. She is processing the enormity of her actions, and I think those outbursts are part of her wrestling with that.

I know I reached a limit on A talk. The first few weeks after dday, it seemed like all we did was talk about it. I was tired of crying, I was just plain tired. I didn't have myself figured out much less have the answers he needed (as in...why, etc.). I actually begged for a break. I thought I would literally go insane.

I think relegating those discussions to an appointed time will allow both of you the chance to regroup, reflect and maybe your talks will be more productive as well.

What do you think?

Oh, I wanted to add as well. I did feel the same way (we met while I was 17, him 19). My first serious relationship. I certainly had some of that mid life crisis, what have I missed out on going on for sure.

Hi, Mrs. Rock, working on an email for you.

You guys are gonna make it.

Give each other a hug why dontch'ya?

Thanks for the post Mom. Believe me, I don't bring it up every day. Usually I am scared to death to bring it up because it usually gets ugly. It's funny though, the times that we have talked about the A, it usually starts bad, but then after a while the defenses seem to come down and then we start getting somewhere. It's just getting to that point that is such a struggle.
I'm so happy that mrsrock contacted you, I think it's so great and maybe you can help each other somehow.
Thanks Mom, you rock!
I hope things are going well with your situation.
Rock

It's funny because back when I was the FWS I would buy her cards and leave them in her car, I made her tapes with "our" songs on it. I used to drive out of my way almost daily to catch her walking to her office just so I could give her a kiss.
She said that it helped her a lot to get through some things. I did it because I loved her and I was remorseful and I wanted to help her get through the pain that I had caused.
Now I am the BS and I still buy her cards, make her cds with "our" songs on them and write her notes. Now I do it because I am insecure. Also because I love her.
I don't want to say that she hasn't done anything for me, but I just ache sometimes for something. I don't know. I walkthrough the card shop and I see cards that are all mushy and say "I'm sorry" and stuff like that and I wonder to myself why can't she do something like that for me? I don't think that she realizes how much little things like that can make me feel so much better.

Anyway, I am not complaining. She has been so good lately. She has quit drinking. As a family we are all going to church every week too. That means so much to me because usually I would just go by myself. I can't tell you how much I love being there as a family.
SO overall it's been pretty good. A lot of it has to do with all the great advice that we have gotten here.
So thank you all for continuing to take the time to help us.
Rock