Hi my original post can be found in the just found out section and it was suggested I move the thread here not sure if I have done it the right way this is my last response in that thread.

Yes the marriage is in trouble the thing is my W did not really keep things a secret if I was paying attention I could have figured it out a lot sooner, she did let me view some of the messages over the weekend when it all came out which is what set of the alarm bells, she started of telling me it was just a friendship but during the day I found out she was trying to set up a webcam between them I did lose it and ended up confronting her she then started of saying no it was just a friendship then as the evening progressed it turned out that she has intense feelings for the OM and that If he had asked her to meet up as he dose live close enough for that she would do so at the drop of a hat but my W reckons that all the emotions and feelings towards the OM are from her side at this stage and the only indication he has shown her at the moment is that he is just there to listen and that is not reciprocal that is just what she says though.

I realize that I have a lot of work to do it was just difficult not knowing which direction to take when I am 100% keen at working at it and she has indicated that she doesn’t have the energy or want to work at anything right now.

As you have suggested I am of to read and I am just relieved that I should not just sit back and see how things pan out. My W knows I am looking through these sites do I discuss my findings with her as at the moment she thinks that I am just making the changes because that is what the books or articles I come across say I should do.

thank you for your help.

First off...read up on plan A and plan B here on this site. Read the information about the Love Bank, and Emotional Needs.

The first step is plan A. If you're not sure what that means, read the plan, and ask questions here. The basic concepts are that you work to meet your wife's EN's (emotional needs) and at the same time put pressure on ending the affair. Has your wife agreed to break contact with OM completely? It sounds like she needs to take a break from online activities completely, IMHO. Has she agreed to this?

I imported Knak's original post and my initial reply from Just Found Out. Knak, the experts will start weighing in today. Stay tuned.

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ORIGINAL POST at JUST FOUND OUT
knak123
Junior Member


Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 3
Emotional Affair?
#3202292 - 03/13/07 07:51 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Hi my wife and I have been married for 10 years and have 2 kids in that time we have had our rough patches which we have always been able to talk it out and solve things between ourselves. Over the last few months things have been getting bad between my wife and I.

This time round talking things out between ourselves is not working everything has come to a head she says that she is not ready to work things out and doesn’t want to get divorced but just needs me to give her time to think things over. While we were discussing our situation she mentioned that she that she felt emotionally dead. This is when she mentioned that she was in regular contact with a guy via MSN which I was aware of as she runs an internet forum and is a member on a few others so she has a network of online friend. She told me that this person she is in touch with is only a friend and there is nothing there but he is bringing out emotions in her that she has not had for a while with me. After Our discussions she is constantly on msn with him now at all hours of the day

After reading various articles I discovered the term emotional affair and I feel that this what is going on. The articles advise that when in this situation it is best to step back from the situation and ride things out until she is ready to move forward in which ever direction she comes up with. I understand the logic behind it.

But I would like to know do I let her know I think that she is having an emotional affair and that it is not just a friendship?

The other thing is what is a fair amount of time to give her to think things over, do I continue trying to work things out in the meantime not pushing her for a commitment or do I keep quiet and wait for her to make the next move?

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chrisner
Member


Reged: 12/19/06
Posts: 119
Re: Emotional Affair? [Re: knak123]
#3202695 - 03/13/07 04:12 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Welcome to Marriage Builders.

Based on the information you provided, I honestly believe your marriage is in trouble. Does your wife keep the content of all the messages exchanged with the OM (other man) secret from you? As soon as any thing she shares or does with the OM becomes secretive from you she has slipped into an emotional affair. If they are just comparing notes on fly tying or some other activity then in time it will still become an emotional affair. There are several red flags regarding her comments in the air here. Emotional affairs are as destructive to a marriage as physical affairs (PA). Men typically fear PA's but lose their wives to EA's. And an PA is just and EA that got an opportunity.

Sorry but you will not get anyone familiar with the concepts utilized here that will advise that you step back and do nothing. If you do nothing you will end up with nothing. You have a lot of work to do.

Start reading here about Plan A and Emotional Needs. The faceless OM is providing her with basic emotional needs she craves but was not getting from you. Without confrontation or LB (love busting) you have to identify these needs and start showing your probable WW (wayward wife) your ability to provide them.

You need to start snooping to get to the bottom of the content of their communication. Where is he? Can they physically get together? Have they already? Be prepared for the worst regarding the answers to these questions.

Get a keylogger on that computer as soon as possible. Build a lot of evidence before you confront her about the nature of her relationship with the OM.

In the mean time start providing the needs she is getting supplied by another man. Look up the Emotional Needs Questionaire on this web site. You both need to fill one out to understand what the other craves but is not receiving. Then give her what she wants and don’t ask or expect anything during the time she is still in contact with the OM. Read “His Needs Her Needs”.

You must gather your evidence, confront her when it can no longer be denied and then you much reach a state where she never contacts this OM again. Not ever. They are not “Just Friends”.

This will take a lot of work and patience on your part. No Love Busting behavior on your part. Read, read, read, all over this site. Don’t do anything until you understand the concept. Just to the right of my post you will see the most popular concept links. Get linking!

Finally, consider moving this thread over to the General Question Forum. There is a lot more traffic and experts hanging out there.

You came to the right place. With work you can fully recover your marriage and make it better than it has ever been. How much do you desire to save your marriage?

Knak,

Her openess to you this early about her feelings and the content of her messages with the OM may be a very good sign that she is really trying to wake you up and give you a chance. Even if this is not her intent it is an opportunity. Remember though you only saw what she wanted you to see. The tip of an iceberg?

Plan out and start a solid Plan A and understand that it requires she sever all contact with OM forever.

What emotional needs is he providing that you have not? You indicate that he is mostly just in listening mode. Do you really listen to your wife when she talks to you?

It is very, very bad he lives close. Snoop for more information anyway. I still believe you need to keylog her computer right away. Still you must be prepared for bad news and the possibility that there is more happening here than you know.

Knak,

Coach "C" is good....stick with him and others who check in with insights.

My H gave me signs of his EA that I blew off---phone hang-ups when I answered that I jokingly mentioned..."must have been your girlfriend, har har har"....(and it had been OW but I had no reason to doubt so I did not even check caller ID).

You have the advantage of the opportunity to covertly (and overtly) snoop. DO IT. Your marriage is at stake and all stops are out.

Like Coach "C" said, an EA is just as damaging as a PA, but if you can stop it before it evolves, you'll be that much further ahead (and avoid many nasty triggers).

Sorry I have to go to work and can't post any more til tonight, but I'll read when I can.

Ace

Knak Quote:

"I realize that I have a lot of work to do it was just difficult not knowing which direction to take when I am 100% keen at working at it and she has indicated that she doesn’t have the energy or want to work at anything right now."

Knak, she won't help work on the marriage until she ceases all contact with OM and has totally withdrawn from her affection to his attention. This will not be any fun for you and can be very frustrating. No LB’s!

Find out who he is. Is he married? Does he have kids? Where does he work? Is he doing any of this on a employers time? You will likely come to a stage where you will be forced to expose this affair to others to bring it to the light of day and kill it. Prepare for that. It is tough but usually always has to happen.

What is the situation with your wife’s parents? Do they like you and would they be an ally? Remember they have a grandchild in this too.

Get a Plan A started and expect no help from her BUT……. She will notice. Don’t tell her you are a changing man, show her with sincere acts of consideration and respect. Read more. Be patient and don’t react to the disrespect that she will probably throw at you.

Don’t initiate a lot of conversations about the relationship. That will have to come later. Right now show her that you are a safe, warm, comfortable, and upbeat person that any reasonable spouse would be happy to be with.

SNOOP!!!!

Post back when you can.

Thanks everyone for your input.
After I spoke to my WW last night and confronted her with the affair she at first denied it outright then she turned around and said that it was just a friendship.

She has no intentions at this stage of breaking of her ties with him. Just noticed she has tried installing the web cam again...

I have spoken to her brother about the situation and I know here parents would probably back me up in this situation. The only thing is when I confronted her about OM she turned around and said she would not be able to speak to her brother again as all he will be thinking is that she is out having an EA I dont know if getting here parents involved would help as it would seem like I am getting her whole family to gang up on her. Do I just get her family to speak to her anyway even if it makes her more annoyed?

It will be difficult to get her of the web as she is a freelance webdesigner and she runs a general forum.

I am afraid the EA has probaly sped up now that I have confronted her with my suspicions.

I will not be able to finsh everything I want to post as she will be back from swimming with the kids soon.

I dont know if he is even in only a listening mode.

WW works on an apple mac so I would have no Idea on how to set up a keylogger at the moment.

Have to go now will try and check in during the night otherwise it will be in the morning.

Knak,

She will continue to deny anything more than being “just friends” until you have enough undeniable proof that shows otherwise. She is more likely to convince her parents to believe that they are just friends if you involve them too early. Then you will look like the crazy jealous spouse no one can trust. Believe me, things can get real twisted.

You must snoop to get clear, undeniable evidence. Unfortunately that you have confronted her once without evidence may make her protect her information more carefully. See the attached link to Spying 101. Have you checked her cell phone records? Now would be a good time. Review Spying 101 and get going. Take care and don’t get caught snooping. She sounds like she knows her way around a computer so be careful. And that web cam thing creeps me out a little.

Erase your history and temp internet files every time you leave here. She can't know about this site for some time yet if ever. You have to become Knak P.I.

When you talked to her did you tell her how you felt about this relationship and the kind of discomfort you felt with it? How did she react? A dedicated spouse would end the relationship; a wayward spouse would argue its innocence and continue in spite of your discomfort.

Make a plan and start keeping records in a safe place. If you are right and it may be accelerating you are under the gun. It is most certainly an EA and if he really is in the same city it will become a PA in time. Everything your wife tells you regarding this relationship and her time will very likely be a lie until there is NC and withdrawal.

I know we all sound overly paranoid, but once you have been here long enough you will see it over and over.

SPYING 101

It will be difficult setting up the spy systems as she is at home constantly as she also works from home.

The only time I really get on here is after she has gone to bed or from work.

This evening just before I went to bed she finally built up the courage to e-mail her parents to tell them that we were having problems in our marriage and that they would probably be disappointed in her.

This evening she waited for me to go to bed which has become the norm lately then she was straight onto the msn with him. As the Kids have colds I had excuses to come downstairs at various stages. She did not hide the fact that she was online to him but then I know he is meant to be organizing to get her some freelance web design work. She mentioned the she has seen him on webcam but it was not reciprocal because she could not get it working from this end. I have a feeling he was showing her around his house this evening over his webcam.

I should be sleeping but I have so many things going on in my head. I apologize if this is all so jumbled but I am trying to get in what I feel are the most relevant things in the time spaces available.

I am in the process of setting up plan A. I still need to do the emotional questioner with her if I can convince her to do it. I have started to address what I assume are her EN at the moment. As per the discussions between my wife and I agreed to give her space which I am finding hard to define, considering we are in the same house and sleeping in the same bed at the moment. I will be printing some stuff for at work she then mentioned that I should e-mail here if there are any problems but not to worry as I did not e-mail her anyway admittedly one of my down points really poor contact with her during the day from work due to work constraints, and the awkwardness between us for a while. She says I must be confusing you with all the contact me don’t contact me hints, it is confusing. She then mentioned that I am confusing her because yesterday I paid her a compliment which she recons is the first ever genuine one from me which felt really good to her even though I had done it badly and at a wrong time considering it was because she probably had done her self up in preparation for the webcam chat.

Quote chrisner" When you talked to her did you tell her how you felt about this relationship and the kind of discomfort you felt with it? How did she react? A dedicated spouse would end the relationship; a wayward spouse would argue its innocence and continue in spite of your discomfort.

I did not get a chance to tell her how I felt about it as she said she knows that it hurts me she did seem a bit upset then went on to say that it had gone past her chasing after him and that they are just friends now

My W has confidence issues with herself which is why things have not gone faster than they could have, but right now I think those issues are being over ridden by her emotions.
But then again I feel like I am over reacting to some of the things.

Have to go sleep…….

Hi just trying to figure out which way to move forward as I have been going through the EN section. I was wondering which are the best forms of affection to give/show while the W and I are going through the give her space and time to think things through period that she has requested.

Forgive me if I missed it, but please define what she means by 'space and time'.

If it's away from your home and not with you, it's a major red flag.

Ace

Sorry no this is at home with me at the moment.

Knak,

The space she wants is the space and freedom to pursue her EA in your own home. Giving her space to think in comfort without pressure in your home is one thing, giving her space to openly contact the OM is quite another. She is sitting on the fence enjoying what you provide (domestic support, taking care of the kids while they are sick, financial etc) and enjoying what EN’s the OM is fulfilling, hopefully only on line.

The more time she spends with him the more she will continue to create rationalizations that she is unhappy in the marriage.

Knak a few questions:
What was the state of your marriage prior to the EA starting?
How old are your kids?
How is your wife as a mother of the kids?
How do you see your role and contribution as dad?
Is your wife alone at home during the day?

******Hey veteran MB'ers, jump on in. Don’t leave this poor guy stuck at the mercy of an idiot rookie (that would be me).******

Chrisner, you're doing great...maybe do an APB at the Soiree.

Ace

1. Things were pretty down in all aspects as we have been struggling financially since WW was made redundant two years ago. As time wore on her confidence has worn thin due to rejections when searching for a job then giving up on going freelance and so on because of this and I made the mistake of not encouraging her more or pushing her to do something. Over the last three months finances have been the worst ever. At the beginning of the year she mentioned that she could not carry on like this and I took it to mean financially so I just started working more hours to try an improve things but as I now find out I was totally wrong about what she could not carry on with meant. I would say her first contact with the OM began a couple of months back with him offering to try and get her some freelance work.
2. Our daughter is seven and our son is 4.
3. My W is a pretty good mother but she is more of a career woman than a SAHM.
4. I would like to think I am a good dad although I have not been around much due to working the longer hours. Most definitely could be better. I do try and contribute as much as possible..
5. Yes my W is at home alone during the day which has probably added to the problems as she was not getting to see other adults much. And on weekends I have been to tire to go out any ware so she did not get to go out then as well.

She keeps getting all emotional and saying that she needs to get her mind sorted out before she can move on. This evening I lost it whether this was the right thing or not I don’t know I told her that as of tomorrow she will go and work from her brother’s new office just to get her out of the house and into a more positive environment. She is now trying to convince me that she is not mentally ready to face it she would rather start on Monday but I just said she will start there in the morning even if I have to take her myself and she can hate me for it. I am just tired of seeing her run herself down even more.

She then admitted to me that she sent a photo of herself to the OM this afternoon but has cut of all contact with him because she is embarrassed of what he will think of her. That is when I lost it and said she needed to get out of the house by going to do her work along side her brother rather than sitting at home mopping. . I feel that once they start talking again thing will move onto the next stage even though she is starting to get confused feelings for me again,

I have a feeling she is not telling me to leave her because she doesn’t want to look like the bad person in all of this to her family as they are more likely to prefer us to try and work things out. Even though I have admitted to the family that I am just as much to blame in all of this. I think her as trying to get me angry enough to tell her to move out.
I trust this helps clear up a few things.

What is the next step.

After him recieving the photo this is what transpired via mobile/ cell phone even though she said she had not been in contact with him since sending it.

from him I am in front of the computer 15:12:21
Next message your awsome 15:16:54

from her I'm picking up the kids just felt like sending you a flower! just because... 16:14:24

{flower} 16:07:58

now I see why she is not so keen on facing her brother or going ou tomorrow.

oh I am so mad right now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

so much for telling me she loves me this morning...

I can feel another sleeples night coming up

chrisner thanks for all your help so far if it was not for this forum, you and others I would be out there none the wiser about what WW was up to as I did not EA even existed.

As I mentioned I only have a limited time alone on my computer I am lucky she went to bed early tonight….

knak,

I put up a flare for help. Hopefully more input will be arriving in the next few hours.

Stay cool. No Love Busting, it won't help. You have been doing great under the circumstances. At least this new intel confirms what we felt was afoot.

Keep on Plan A. Take care of yourself. Eat healthy and try to get sleep if you can.

I will return when I can get free.

Chrisner is giving you good advice. I am reposting the following for you as I think it wil help you with your Plan A. Hang in there - this is a marathon, not a sprint.

You might also search amazon.com for the book *Not Just Friends*.
Mulan

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"The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A" by Pepperband

THE CARROT OF PLAN A:

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



THE STICK OF PLAN A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Allowing the consequences of adultery and infidelity to fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to affect children of the marriage or the financial security of the marriage, or otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slain for the good of the family.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

would me forcing her to get out the house to start building her self confidence up by working in a office with other people rather than mopping around at home felling sorry for herself be considered Love Busting.

The fisrt thing she said is it wont make her come to a decision any faster about our relationship, my reply was that what I was asking her to do was not about our relationship but her facing life for once and making a go of it. I bit my tounge at the time and did not bring up my suspisions about the OM. I just held and comforted her while she was upset about the thought of having to go out in the morning. just trying to keep things cool at the moment.

She will probably be up and messaging him about what I am making here do. as soon as I go up to sleep.

Thanks to mulan