TM, I finally blew up at our family dinner table and said, " is there something or someone we could fianally talk about other then X?"
I see my sitch so errily in yours, that I'm feel like in some way, I'm tring to head off another disastor.

my OM's wife had already become suspicious, which of course, I chuckled off, in that, she doesn't know how loyal and faithful my wife is to me. Poor thing, I guess she doesn't hav e that in her M. Oh well. I'm not in the least bit worried.

Till I went to my DR. and he told me what I had. My whole world came crashing down around my ears. How could I have been so stupid and blindly trusting?

Your sitch hs touched a heart string, because of my own. I don't want this to happen to you and your M!

Keep working on the "another job elsewhere, angle."
even my own two sons told their Mom, "you need to get out of there. something is not right."

All blessings,
Jerry

Did you try to find the number on Zabasearch.com?

trix,
yeah, the # i got was from zabasearch, I think I'm mostly missing her, I think I try again at different times.

ST
I feel like blowing up sometimes myself. I wish I could meet with OMW.
I think that if anything is happening I have pushed it further underground by confronting her with no evidence (pre MB), just suspicion and a broken heart.

I do have the one call to his office late at night that I still havent figured out. I have a couple of more months that I could get and look through.

Voice recorders havent produced anything. Half of the drive is consumed by road noise though, cheap recorders I guess.

I guess I'm just in a Plan A holding pattern right now, pushing the different job angle untill something gives or the life is sucke out of me.

thanks for your continued prayes and support ST, and everyone else too.

How about sending her a registered letter...and set it up so that ONLY she can sign for it?

Leave off a return address, send it in a business sized envelope, and include in it both your concerns and your contact information.

Otherwise...have a friend that you can trust...one that your wife doesn't know...show up at her house and simply let her know that you need to contact her, and provide your contact information? If OM answers the door, simply have your friend INSIST that he can only talk to her, and walk off.

Just a thought.

Make sure you're getting plenty of exercise .. weight training *really* helped me during my ordeal .. the benefits are numerous..some of which include..

Reduced stress levels
Increased confidence
Improved Physique
Increased calm..and so on..

..A couple nights a week @ your neighborhood gym should do you..self-confidence and physical fitness increases your "alpha male."

If you'd rate your personal hygiene currently at an 8, bring it up to a 10 .. send a subtle signal to your wife that no matter what she's doing .. your still taking care of yourself and respecting yourself ..

Just a suggestion..

Hang in there brother. Stay strong. We're pulling for you.
Keep it Covert .. Yes, continue to attempt contact w/ OMW. Your 50% of the story, you need the other half..

thanks ism, great advice. I've actually lost about 24lbs. I really need to get back in the gym, ironically this new job that she got with om really put the nix on that schedule. been doing pushups though.

coupld of lb's yesterday.
she called and said she would be working pretty late, she was in a hurry. I didnt tell her that I was going there, but I didnt tell her I was going straight home either. But I did show up there (I just couldnt help it and it was an hour after quitting time), but I called her from the parking lot and told her that I was there and asked her where she wanted to eat. She got a little perterbed, but then told me of what she wanted and to just go over there and get it and call her when it was ready. Well I called it in instead, called her back and told her I did. Then I went in. She was working and he was there finishing up something too. I actually talked to him for a few minutes, he was a little more talkative this time than the first time. It was a pleseant convo, he is pretty sharp, nice guy type personallity, lots o money but "down to earth" type, makes me ill.

She was visibly aggravated with me. So he left after a few minutes and I hung around with her while she finished up. She was acting like I was rushing her or something, I was just sitting there reading a mag. She didnt say much about it, just a few jab comments about being treated like she was in kindergarten etc.
I have done this before, several times. Sometimes no one is there, sometimes its other ladies, once he was there too. She hasnt gotten this mad about it.

Well everything went ok, we got home pretty late with some food fed the kids.

Then she says that she has something to "ask" no "tell" me. She said it makes her uncomfortable when I show up at her work when she is working late. She says that she is the only one that her husband comes there and watches her. Etc. and if this kind of stuff continues she is going to leave.

I told her that he didnt seem to care that I was there and most of the time there is no one there. I told that if she is working late and I go home that way I should be able to stop in and see my wife. She didnt like it. She thinks I'm acting crazy and jealous and says she cant handle that with the stress of her work and the kids. She actually said "just keep on and see what you get" now I should have asked her exactly what that meant but I think I know. I didnt argue, I stayed calm. I didnt even bring up MY feelings. Which obviously dont mean [censored] to her.
I feel like my plan A is starting to bomb. How can I just go home if I know she may be there with him getting more entrenched in this EA after hours. I just cant do it.
That was lb #1

Then she tells more of what he has said about his W. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

LB#2 came early this morning. it has to do with waking her up too early with some attempted sleepy friskyness, that ones all mine I guess, but I thought she was half way interested, she must have been dreaming. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> what can I say.

Like I said my plan A is getting weary. And I may have busted the Lbank, gotta start all over. Gotta get my head back into work too.

On the covertness. Car recorders produced nil so far. Phone records have some questions that need to be answered. But not many. So maybe it hasnt progressed too far, maybe I havent pushed too far here lately. got checkmate just incase.

thanks to all for listening, I'm trying to stay out of the pity party, but after a while it just gets old.

TM,

First. Please - keep posting here. This is your place to Vent..and be weak..and release your demons - but not to your wife! - I can't stress enough the importance of self-control at this stage in the game. You MUST keep your game-face on. You MUST maintain control of yourself. DO NOT ABANDON your Plan A. DO NOT Appear weak and needy. Do NOT let your frustration or aggravation show. You must be the rock..

Secondly, I've got bad news for you. This is no longer suspect. Your wife is having an affair..EA..PA..possibly. At this point, EA/PA doesn't really matter - but you need to accept this fact...admit it to yourself, and accept it as reality...You won't need proof on this. Your wifes statements and behavior is proof enough.



[color:"red"]#1 Red Flag[/color]

Working late..after hours..is her time with OM..her "fantasy time.." and you burst into her fantasy .. her visible aggravation with you is proof that you injected reality in her "fantasy time"



[color:"red"]#2 Red Flag[/color]

Correct. Translation: "When you show up at work when I'm working late, your interfereing with relationship with OM, it makes me uncomfortable that you might find out.."



[color:"red"]#3 Red Flag[/color]

This is BS .. this is some crap she's telling you to inject guilt into you..to make you feel bad for visiting her at her work .. my wife would be estatic if I dropped by to say hello .. or get her something to eat no doubt! .. When she was having an EA .. well, she probably would have told me to F-off..but not now..this just isn't a normal reaction..this statement says "Stay the !#%^ away from me while I'm working late.." It's just not normal .. it's affair behaviour. ..and you're not "watching her" -- you just came to pay her a visit and buy her dinner..what normal loving wife would not appreciate that? -- but instead she reverses it on you as "Intruding on her and watching her.." Those who feel that they're being 'watched' are generally doing something they're not supposed to be doing .. so your wifes 'omission' to the belief that she's being 'watched' only concretes this all the more..



[color:"red"]#4 Red Flag[/color]

This is the biggest red flag. She's threatening you with leaving/divorce/serperation..subtly..for visiting her @ work? You can translate this into "If you continue to inject yourself into my affair-world I'm leaving you.." She want's you OUT of her affair space.

So what do you do?

You need to expose .. across the board..with a vengance...Find the OMW..as soon as you can..

Don't LB
Continue Plan A
Don't neglect yourself
Never show weakness/meekness

Sounds like she's already started to give you alot of crap..

What you can expect next..

Re-written history..
She'll accuse you of everything that's gone bad in the world and then some..

Only accept your own faults..don't take responsibility for ANY of her actions..she may try to blame you for x,y, and z..Don't OWN it..and don't take it personally..for her .. it will be purely justification..

Hurry and find OMW..and..stay strong..

thanks again ism,
what you point out makes sense. you dont think that her respones are in retalliation to what she percieves as my accusations on her? could she be that defensive and not be hidding something? I think its definitely an EA now though, maybe one sided.

I called her in a "weakened" state at lunch, but she couldnt talk so maybe I dodged that lb. I was in the process of writing her a letter too, I guess it was going to be a sappy letter begging her to go with me to counseling, I guess that would have been a bad idea, good thing you posted.
I havent slept much this week and its starting to show. I lay there listening to her breathe, looking for a sign..I gotta stop that. fell asleep in the jon a while ago, hope i didnt snore.

OMW is out of town, dont know for how long but I'll try again next week.

gotta get some work done...Lord I hope we have a good weekend.

Nope. A normal, loving, and faithful spouse would have welcomed you with open arms and would have been happy to see you .. even perhaps relished the opportunity to show you that nothing was amuck .. to put your mind at ease after you expressed your concerns with her about their relationship possibly being inappropriate..

..Instead she gives you the fogged-out wayward response..and responds with anger, aggravation, guilting you, and threats..textbook wayward spouse..



Read this My Letter to My Wife ..I wrote it one week after I discovered my wife’s affair..I was week, depressed, couldn't sleep, and moping around like my life was completely over. I too was loosing sleep..It was hard to go to sleep..it was even more difficult waking up..my favorite time of the day was in the morning..right when you open your eyes..that split second where you're brain hasn't begun to consciously process the current events of your life. where you remember nothing..that was my favorite time of day .. I too lost allot of weight..

Looking back and reading my own letter..it's pathetic. Begging, pleading, and meekness only emboldens a wayward spouse..and makes you look unatractive..and the other person more appealing..because they have their @#%^ together. I know this now from experience. You're going through trauma..that's evident...but you've got to get mad (at the situation, not at your wife)..Plan A is mostly for you .. it's about respecting yourself and taking care of yourself..

Don't bother asking for counseling..even if you did go, taking a spouse involved in an affair to counseling is a waste of time and money.

Hi TM,
I apologize for being somewhat abcent again. It's that work thing again, uugh.

I see you showed up at W's work place on the long night. I think we talked about this last week but that particular night got cancelled as I recall.
Well good for you. Know what you've done? You've shown your W that you are not going to stand by and watch your own M relationship flush around the bowl, while she plays around in some fantasy R with OM. Women do not respect a M who are weak and woosie.

As for her reaction, ISM is right on, and I can add or emphasize this enough. Your W should have been thrilled to think that her H misses her companionship so much, that he is willing to bring me dinner at work, just to be with me. People in a loving and committed R, would die to have such attention lavished upon them.

Instead you got the anger and babble of a person who is strugling to maintain a secret and seperate life that does not include you. This is a major warning sign of serious trouble in your W's attitude. I lived all of that for two years before my W's EA with her boss did what all EA's do; look for an opportunity to go to PA.

Having said that, I can't add much to what ISM has said to you because he is spot on in his assesment. I know, I lived it and ended up with the results.

Dr H states that and A cannot exist without the A person creating 2 seperate and distinct lives. They never intend that these 2 lives should ever intersect or collide. Sound familiar?

Am very concerned that your W has once again threatened you with: "keep it up and see what you get." Many will disagree with me and call this a LB, but, IMHO, you need to call her on this. You need to make it clear to your W, that her behavior will also have results, that she will not be happy with.

In the meantime, continue to Plan A and make yourself the obvious chioce for your W. You need to be strong, and show your w how attractive you are. I would suggest to her, that we plan on having dinner everytime you have to work late. " Wouldn't that be a lovely idea sweetheart?" Let her know that her secret second life is beggining to unravel right before her eyes. I wish, in retrospect, I had done this.

All Blessings,
Jerry

I still havent been able to contact OMW, I think she has been staying somewhere else. The time for that may have past, I dont know.

He is still talking to my W about it all, sometimes with others around too, and she is still telling me too. Per what she has told me, that when he describes the woman he would like its basically her. She acknowledges that too. But says that he knows she is not interested in him. She actually said that if anything happened that it would have to have be her fault, like he wouldnt make the first move.

She says that she doesnt care about his sitch anymore than her other lady friends problems or situations. That talking to him is no different than me talking to my co-worker friends (guys).

Phone records havent shown anything, car recorders nil, I have no proof of anything other than inappropiate convos that she is telling me.

Last night I asked her if his sitch was a burden to her, no more than her other friends (ladies) problems.

I dont know what else to do, I have had alot of thoughts though, most of them would probably get me in trouble.

There is a person there that answers the phone sometimes that I have kind gotten comfortable with, just in a joke around kinda way, you know "yeah its me again" or "I thought that was going to be you" she is nice. I said to her yesterday, that I guess that means I call too much, she said no, you call just right, you need to check on your wife. I dont know if thats supposed to mean something or if its paranoia or what.
I thought about asking her if there is anything going on there that I need to know about, or if she could help me contact omw.
I also have thought about anonymously texting another co-worker there asking if she thought something was going on and to email me (a new throw away addy) if she wanted to help save a family.
I dont know, feel like I'm getting desperate sometimes.

On the other hand, we are doing pretty good. We talked about this some last night. She got a little perterbed at me but not really mad, because I asked some questions about how she felt about him and his sit (answers in prev. paragraphs). No lb's though we didnt argue.

Not sure how to procede. Just kinda floatin..

1. You're not paranoid.

2. This woman at her job that you've been speaking with could be a double-edged sword. She might be volunteering to work for you ..in a subtle way..perhaps she's irritated that your wife is deceiving you..and willing to volunteer information.... or she could be part of the A-TEAM (affair-team) .. and will be working with your wife to protect the secret relationship ..

The next step is to determine which camp this person is in. Is she protecting your wife .. or does she know something..and is willing to divulge this information to you? My recommendation would be to persue this .. it seems like your only open avenue at this point .. everything else is grid-lock. Use your wise judgement and discernment to determine which side of the fence this person is on ..

Make sure your certain .. becuase if you ask her to play for your team..and she's already on the other..it will be devastating blow to your discovery process..

Keep us posted TM.

Dead On ISM,

My thoughts exactly, but you put it so much better than I <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

TM, I heard this same rubbish from my w for nearly two years. "How could you think a man 12 years yoonger than me would possibly be interested in me? You are so jealous it's unbelievable." Until, of course, she finally ended up in his bed having sex with him.

Stay alert, and continue to do what you can to attract her to a different job. ASAP.

All Blessings,
Jerry

tired,

Do you think putting a GPS on her car would help? That's assuming she has a car.

It will track her movements but you have to put it on the car, take it off, and then download the data to a computer that is secure from her.

I wish I had one sooner.

Anyway, as a gesture on my part I would be willing to loan/give it to you at no charge. I don't need it anymore as I've moved on.

They're kind of neat with the google satellite maps these days. You can see the exact buildings and addresses that a person has driven to, how long they stop there, what speed they were going on the freeway. Just about everything.

A little tricky to set up since you have to place it underneath the car (it has strong magnets) and get the antenna in a good spot. It won't work under the seat or in the trunk.

Let me know.

It's my way of giving back to the community here.

RB <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

thanks RM4, I've thought about the gps thing, but went with the digital recorders first , and if anything suspicous came up I would go with gps. So far nothing suspicous has shown up.

I'm thinking if it has gone PA that its happening at work (either during or after hours), or they are taking his car. I dont want to give to many details about the work environment, but all it would take is a locked door and no-one would know, and it would be very comfortable. After hours and no one would have a clue.

But I still havent convinced myself its gotten that far, I still think its a EA and she's in denial about it.

ISM,ST,
Thanks for the advice. I will have to continue to feel this other person out and figure out a way to see if she'll help me.
I clicked on the link you(ISM) had to your "beg" letter and read most of it. I see now my letter was headed in the same direction.
During all this I have discovered that I have some really bad habits. In the past, if there has been conflict, the way I have dealt with this is to try to get sympathy or get my way buy acting hurt or sorry (basically groveling), in order to get her to feel sorry for me. I realize now this has put me in a very bad position in the marriage, and would never get the respect that I deserve. Its hard to change this attitude with out it being percieved as confrontational.
I guess there has always been the threat of her leaving and I always thought that if I acted that way it would make her stay. We have had some really rocky times in the begining, mixed in with some really good times. And I didnt want to lose her. I see now that I have set myself up for this and to be controlled. I have always seen our early strife as my fault, had to do with some crap that happened before we got married. I dont think she ever let alot of that go.
I think in all of the arguements that we've had in the past she only left once or twice, drove around the block, then sat in the drive for a while. Now I can see she would have a place to go, I think thats the root of my current fears.

Anyway, all of that to say that I will not be writing a beg letter, or do any begging of any kind anymore. I have been working on my communication skills. Trying to get my POV across without any DJ, thats a tuff one.

I wish she would go to MC with me, but that will never happen, so I'm on my own on this.

Thanks everyone....

I am not certain that your wife is having an affair. Possible... yes. Probable..likely. For sure...no.

It's time to end all doubt...hire a PI. If you can leave town for a few days that would give the PI time to do his job. Also, if the woman at work is in your camp... then you should enlist her help. Finding out where she stands is risky though.

Als, let the man at work know that you would like him to curtail those types of conversations with your wife. Tell him that you do not believe that it is approapriate for a married man to be confiding in a married woman and that his actions are causing friction between you and your wife.

Hiring the PI is necessary at this point. You need answers and can't just sit back and be patient forever.

MEDC

Hi TM sorry for the thread Jack but I have to say MEDC I have notice that you have a softer tone to your posting and I have to say I like it. I think you are a very intelligent man and when you come across the way you have been you make more notice of this. My mom used to always say you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. I really like your post of late. I hope you don't mind me saying so.

By the way TM I can tell you are growing because you are noticing how your behavior has contributed to your sitch and you are trying to change it. I hope she is not having an affair but your fear that she maybe is working in your favor because you are learning to be a better H. I agree with Medc by the way. Goodluck with that.

my posts are a reflection of my feelings regarding a situation as well as what I feel is necessary to get a point across. I have remained consistent in all my time here... I am to the point...sometimes blunt...sometimes warm...but always honest... most get that about me... I rub some the wrong way.

Thanks for posting your thoughts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

MEDC

ok, interesting update.

my W tells me about a convo that went like this.

W and another co-worker (cw) standing there. OM walks up or by:
OM: my W asked about you, asked me how's (MY W)? I told her she's doing good and I hope she likes her job. and she is cute and funny.
<then he walks off>

W to CW: what was that all about?

cw: I dont know maybe she thinks you two have a thing.

then W said something like I hope not, and CW kidded something like yeah you little home wrecker.

My W told me she thinks he was trying to get to OMW. I dont think she liked it much. I proceeded to tell her that that wasnt a very good thing for him to do. She agreed. She says that she never has had anything against omw, and she would hate it if anyone especially her thought there was anything going on. She also said the she feels comfortable around him to joke around and she hopes that no one sees that as flirting, obviously someone does. She said that she thought about talking to him about and maybe getting the OMW up there and talking to them both.

I told her I didnt know about that. At this point I felt like I was walking on a spider web. I knew that our convo about this was crucial and that I didnt need to freak, so I stayed cool, and calm, kept it low key.

She did say that if there starts to be problems and she gets wrapped up in a problem (that she hasnt percieved is already there yet) she will ask for a transfer.

I think it was a little bit of an eye opener for her. Somebody has obviously said something to OMW I think. I feel the need to run with this but I still cant make contact with OMW by phone, I've got other ideas though.

When all this first started and I told her that I didnt think it was a good idea that she get involved in his personal crap, this is what I thought would happen at the very least.

I'll never forget her response to my asking her to tell him that those convos mader her uncomfortable and were inappropiate; "that would be so embarrasing" well how friggin embarassing is it to be thought of as a home wrecker?

I've entertained the idea of confronting his sorry [censored], telling him that I dont appreciate him using my wife for his petty bs. I feel this would be justified, he is screwing with my life here not to mention my wife's feelings. But alas I know this would probably do more harm than good.

She still tells me that if I do anything it "will cause trouble with us", which is a little bit toned down from "if you do anything to embarass me I will leave!"

All that to say that at least she told me this. And I think it genuinely hurt her feelings a little bit, which is sad to me. And it makes me hurt for her, and if I could dispise that sob more I would.
I know she didnt take this job to find another or to be a home wrecker, she did it for OUR family.
Maybe it will all unravel soon and I can only hope that she will be a little wiser for the experience, I just hope the cost isnt too great.

If by chance that omw tries to contact me, how much should I divulge of what all he has talked bout? I just ask because everything I was told was told to me in confidence of my W, if I tell all, and my W will probably find out, wouldnt that be a huge LB depleter?
I'm thinking something along the lines of "all I realy know of is some convo's that I feel are inappropiate" with some mild details.
anyway all this just blew my mind

What would you do if you KNEW she was having an affair?