I have a question for people out there that may have either gone through this, or their spouse went through it.

My WH and I are seperated. During this time he has given me many mixed signals, and then a few weeks ago he told me he had started 'dating'. It rocked my world.

I knew that he was going out all of the time with his guy friends, it just killed me that he was going out with women too...

When we were married, he was not ever interested in going out. We had a few couples that we hung out with, but they all split up, or moved away. We had kids, we did not go out much at all them. He started to go out on weekends, never with me, which was very upsetting to me, week after week... I told him to leave (big mistake in hindsight) and he did. I did force the issue, but I was so unhappy with him never spending time with ME.

Anyway, he is now mr. social butterfly, going out all of the time, bringing the kids on 'playdates' everytime he has them. It is upsetting to me that he never wanted to do those things with ME when he was still around, and now he has all of these new 'friends' that he is bringing the kids around. I asked him why making all of these new friends was so important to him, and he said that it is not important to him, it is just something for him to do.

So he is immersing himself more and more into being a social butterfly, whereas he used to be more laid back, did not need to to be 'social' so much. He seems all confidantly single now, but every now again seems guilty about leaving me and the kids - hence I get mixed signals.

What do you think? Do you think that this is a phase that he will pass out of? Or do you think that this is really what he wants- just to be single, and he is living it to the hilt? He is 37, and I thought for a while that it was just a mid life crisis, but it is not getting better, it just seems to be getting worse...

Sad, what you have here is a man who suddenly found out that yes he CAN have it all - he really can have all the fun of dating AND still have a wife and kids who will sit at the house and wait for him and be weeping with relief when he finally gets around to coming home!

I submit it's not the "free-wheeling single life" that he's so into - it's the idea that he is so great and so special and so different and such a king of the world that it's okay for HIM to be both married and single at the same time.

He loves, loves, loves sitting up on that fence, and you can be sure that his butt will stay firmly attached there forever unless and until something knocks him off.

Think hard and look close - what are you doing that enables him to sit up on that fence? What could YOU do to change this situation?
Mulan

Mulan,
I really have not been acting like we are together anymore. I have not been calling him, I have not been talking to him about anything personal, I have not been asking him about anything, until yesterday, and that was in regards to the girls, and who he is now bringing them around.

I have not been relieved when he comes around either... I don't know. I did ask him what he wanted to do (D, or not to D) and he said, "why do you have to do anything? Just leave it like it is." Do you think that this is his way of controlling me, knowing that I would not date while being married, and I would not expose my kids to another man?

With the fence sitting, how can he sit on the fence if I am not really catering to him anymore, chasing after him, saying anything like I want to be with him? What usually knocks people off of the fence? The only thing that I can think of would be to not see him anymore, and then file for a D. But the thought of filing for a D upsets me too much now.

Thanks!

Like I said . . .


It's his way of keeping you safely dangling while he takes a marriage vacation to go out and date, secure in the knowledge that he's got a backup plan (you) and can always go back any time he feels like it since you'll always be waiting for him.


Pitch-black Plan B.

Pitch-black Plan B.

Not Plan D.

Pitch-black Plan B.
Mulan

What really concerns me is that he appears to be really HAPPY with his new life style of having no responsibilities really for the kids (on a day to day basis) and making all of these new 'friends'. He seems like he is really having a good time.

I do not know if there would be any point in doing a pitch black plan b when he seems so happy now, it just seems like it would make it easier to continue on his lifestyle with less guilt (seeing me, having the kids as much, etc.). I mean, I stopped really talking to him about anything personal a while back, and I have not been asking him much. It does not seem to phase him.

I just was wondering if you get this wonderful taste of freedom, and it is sitting well with you (making new friends, going out, etc.) WHY would you want to go back to your M, where life is more work, more responsibility, and obligations? I am curious if anyone has been this way, and then thought, "oh, I am not happy with this lifestyle anymore, I wish I had my stable M again."

Sad,

I too ask myself that question.

WH left a year ago. Lives with OW. I truly think he is happy not having the wife, kids, house to deal with. He loves the single life.

I have given him so many chances to come back and work on the M, but he has not.

Like you said, why would he want to leave the come as you go, do what you want, when you want life, for responsibilities and obligations?

BTW, I think my WH is in a mid life crisis. OW is 17 years younger.

Catgirl-
I am sorry to hear that... I just really think sometimes it would be SO EASY for him to just walk away, and never look back...
The funny thing is when I had my H fill out the emotional needs questioniare his #1 emotional need?- Family committment #2 openness and Honesty, # 3- conversation. I was flabbergasted. How could it be Family committment when he LEFT? How could # 2 be openess and honesty, when he LIES all of the time? How could #3 be conversation, when anytime I tried to talk to him about our problems, he would leave or hang up on me?? He did not seem to realize that if we RESOLVED our problems, that we could easily move on to other topics.... I just do not understand. I found myself looking at him yesterday, thinking, "I do not even know this man in front of me at all anymore." And it was sad...

I just did not know if anyone had bounced back from a similar situation, or if there is no hope....
Thanks for the input though, good luck to you!

Sad - I don't think you've been reading here very long. The questions you bring up are all dealt with extensively every day. When you learn more, you will realize that what you currently believe just ain't true when it comes to Plan B.

For starters, read LilSis's Plan B thread. She had the same concerns and we've been talking about them there.

And as far as his Emotional Needs - those are things he wants from you, not things he wants to give you. Does it make sense now?
Mulan

Mulan-
Yes, it makes sense, but what I was trying to say is that he is not really coming to me for ANY of his emotional needs, so that if I were to plan b him, I do not think that it would make any difference to him... He has not been coming to me for ANYTHING.... The most that he has done in the past few weeks is to call to tell the girls goodnight. Do you know what I mean? I could understand if he were coming here, talking to me, hanging out with me once in a while, calling to talk to me, but he is not doing ANYTHING that would even let me satisfy his needs, so that he would even think twice. That is what my concern is. If it were not for the kids, he would be gone, I would not hear from him again, I am sure of it. I am not worried about my needs now, I just do not know if doing a plan b, when I have not been meeting any of his needs, since he will not let me, is any way to go... I will read LilSis's thread....
Thanks

You say he is already gone so what's the problem with plan B. This goober wants to sow his oats, live like Hugh Hefner and know that you and the kids are safely waiting at home, pining and hoping that he comes home to give you a crumb of his time. Stop being there for him. If he wants to go let him leave BUT he leaves, then he leaves without you, the kids, the house, the furniture, the car, the ........don't help support his affair(s) in anyway, shape or form; nothing!! Insist that he not have the children around strange women and if he can't or want agree to that take him to court to get a temp order stating it. Allow him structured visitation (not just whenever he wants to come by). He gets every other weekend from x to y and that's it. Give him a taste of what it will be like if he wants out. Right now he's sitting back and living like a king and doesn't care about one person save himself. Time for a dose or reality.

Sadmo,I am the WW and my BH is now becoming my WH and I am also feeling very discouraged!The only time he calls is to talk about bills!How do you plan A,or plan B when they could care less and barely come around?I am in the process of starting to move my stuff out of my house hoping that might light a fire under his a**!But as a WW I know how it is to be in that fog and you only think of yourself!The only thing that broke that fog for me was the realization that my H was moving on and I was going to lose him!Now I fear I may have woke up to late!But I haven't given up!Maybe you need to remind him that he is still M and not single!I just told my H that yesterday!

Sad - here is the difference:

Right now your WH feels free to ignore you because he assumes he can waltz over and see you and the kids any time he feels like it. It's safe to ignore you for days at a time because he's totally in control of the situation and he knows it.

But -

If you go to Plan B and he CANNOT see you anymore at ANY time, and YOU are in control of the situation and he is not -

See the difference now?
Mulan

Sad, your WH IS having his EN's met by you. You have not let him go. You are there when he comes by. You ALLOW him in your life WHEN he chooses. YOU have no boundaries and he is taking full advantage of that.

You are his family (#1 EN met whenever he is around you or talks to you about kids, etc.). YOU ARE THERE FOR HIM, only UNTIL YOU CHOOSE NOT TO BE.

That is what my concern is. If it were not for the kids, he would be gone, I would not hear from him again, I am sure of it. I am not worried about my needs now, I just do not know if doing a plan b, when I have not been meeting any of his needs, since he will not let me, is any way to go... I will read LilSis's thread....


Right, so, is he gone? Are you sure what you ASSUME is correct. Plan B is NOT for the wayward spouse, it is against that tyranny, it is FOR you, to quiet yourself, and come back to a place of balance. You pick a side of the fence--YOU PICK A SIDE--and WH will not be able to stay up there either, not the fence that separated you and the 'other life'. His fence will crumble and he'll be left with a pile of rubble. Let him go, let him live HIS life, make his choices. Are you happy with WH? Do you like him? If not, why bother with that, why not store what love you have left, and move on?

Mulan-
That was actually pretty concise, and to the point. I did not really look at it that way...

Silentlucidity- I see what you are saying. I think what stops me from going into a full plan B is that I am afraid... afraid that if there was just ONE MORE CHANCE I would ruin it by not talking to him at all on his terms, only my terms. It is really silly once I think about it, but I think that is why I have not done it yet. Just the fear of the unknown. I actually know that I would be better off with no contact with him under the circumstances, every time I do have contact, I get a little undone, sometimes not so bad, sometimes kind of bad...

Hope and Pray- CAN you get a letter from a lawyer saying that he cannot have the kids around strange women? I talked to the one lawyer and they did not say that. I know that he is bringing the kids around his new 'friends' that also have kids, and it is REALLY upsetting to me, since I really do not know all of the details of what is going on with him...

Thanks again everyone. There are very good points that I need to realize. Also, is there anywhere where I could find more information on boundaries? I think that I actually am not enforcing any right now, and I need a little help in that area.

Sad,

Plan B is not about him at all. It is ONLY about you. If you want to end the marriage just divorce the man. However, if you want to save it, you need to preserve the love you have for him or at least slow down the withdrawals from the love bank. If you get to the point where the love bank is empty, then the marriage will be over, because you will have nothing left to do recovery and rebuild your marriage.

Plan B is for YOU. It is only about you. It is NOT about influencing your H in any way. Sometimes withdrawing from the battle field does affect a WS, but that is NOT it's purpose.

Consider plan B for you and your marriage. It has NOTHING to do with your H. It really is that simple. I can assure you if he is still playing around when your LB goes into overdraft this marriage and your family will be split. That is how it works.

Please read the articles.

God Bless,

JL

PS: I state this another way. Quit worrying about him, what he thinks, what he does. You have no control over that. Worry about you, what you want, and how long you are willing to wait. Plan B makes it much easier to do these things.

JL-
I know what you are saying, I know that plan B is supposed to be about me, but I do also think that if I were to plan B that it would would be with the hope that he would come around. I do understand that way it is supposed to be, but I know how I tend to think, and it would be with the flicker of hope burning in the back of my head. That is partially why I have found it so difficult to have boundaries with him, and why he probably does not respect any decisions I have made since we have separated. I just, for whatever reason, am always afraid that I am going to miss that 'one opportunity' (even if there will be one!) that I did not want to be like, "no, it is not my way..." I understand it is FOR the M, and in support of that, and if I were to go to plan B, that I would not be cheapening my M at all (in my mind). It would be quite the opposite. I really need to think seriously about doing it.

What is sad is that I feel like I have the 'kicked puppy syndrome' where I keep coming back for more, and more, and more (not physical abuse at all!), and I am not standing up for myself. I NEVER was this way before, and I am actually shocked that I am this way now. It has been a learning experience for me, as a person also.

You did give me good advice, I need to apply it. Thanks again.

I felt the same as you did at one time, like a kicked puppy. I'm a very strong woman, and Plan B helped me to find those reserves, to find myself again, within this mess. Plan B does not mean divorce. Also, you mentioned that you fear he will not want to talk unless it is on 'his terms'. That is what you are doing now, and what is he saying that's so important? Anything?

You are not angry, yet, but the more time you spend with this shell of a man, you will begin to. I had to hit my own point for Plan B. You DON'T need a WH; you WANT you H. That flicker of hope if the belief that you have that your M can be saved. It cannot be saved with this current incarnation.

I want to urge you to read up on others in Plan B here; there are many threads that are active. Also, read articles. YOU are not cheapening your M, you WANT your M. If you do not learn about boundaries and what YOUR needs are and how to go about healing yourself, if your WH does come back around, you will most likely have a false recovery.

Nobody is rushing you, but you need to be more informed here. Knowledge is power. You CANNOT CONTROL WH.

SL-
Actually I fluctuated between being ok, happy, angry, sad, ok, happy, etc.... I am over my initial RAGE anger. That was when we first separated. Now it is more of a self-riteous anger... "how can he treat me so poorly???? How can he lie to me so much????"

I know that I cannot control him, but it seems that everytime I get a a handle on one of his little manipulative tricks, he pulls out another one. The latest is bringing the kids around other single women all in the name of 'playdates'. For who...I am not sure. It really upsets me, and he had said that he would not do it. I do not know if he is seeing any of them, and that is what is so upsetting. I do not want my children to be around such a blatant disrespect for our M, and for me.

The other concern that I have for the plan b is that I really did not ever get a chance for a good plan a, since it was sabotaged by his behavior that was completely unacceptable. If I were to plan b now, the last thing that he would remember is me asking him to not bring our kids around these other women, and asking him why he lied to me, again, about who he was with.

I know that plan b is for me, and it would be a good thing. What is really sad in all of this, is that when I am out with my friends, or talking to them, or at work, I am my OLD SELF again. The fun, happy person that I was not for so long. And it makes me wonder...would it really be a bad thing to just D him? He was not appreciating me for me (after the kids came) and he did not want to do anything for us, so that I could be me again, and not just a stressed out, working FT, mom. He did not want to do anything leisurely with me. It was always with the kids, or with his friends. He felt that we should only do things with the kids if we were going to do anything. Now that I do get some leisure time, when he has the kids, I am feeling like I am a better mom, and a better person overall. The veil of gloom has gone away, and I am happy... almost radiant. I have fun at work, fun with the kids, with friends. I was actually quite a withdrawn person for a while. He sees it sometimes, and I know that he feels bad about whatever it is that he is doing, then he will be nice, talk all nice, but then whatever he is doing after he sees me, he changes. He seems to resent me, and the kids. Not that he will admit it, but he says things like, "Why should I have to watch the kids so that you can party it up every other weekend?" I do not party it up, will not, I will just do things with my friends or family, or by myself. But he does not ask me what I am doing, and I think that he is trying to get me to tell him, but he wanted to establish a "I do not ask you what you are doing, so do not ask me!" policy. I finally was like, fine, whatever you want to do.

I read another person's thread about the book Dobson's Love Must be Tough. I actually had bought it. I was thinking that that might be the way to go right now, but I was wondering if anyone else had read it, and what they think?

Well, I saw WH today... He called me at work, which was chaotic at the time, and I said I was busy, (the person that answered did not know it was him) take a message. He would not leave one. So I did not know he called. He called me an hour or so later, "What time do you want me to drop the kids off? 4:00?" I told him no, more like 6, I had a lot going on. (we had agreed that on the weekends that he took the kids he should have them until 6 or 7....) He got irritated, and started to tell me, "Look, I need to change her diaper, and..." And I cut him off and told him, "You know, I did not call you, you called me. I am busy, goodbye." And I hung up. Normally I would engage him in SOME manner, but today I was feeling good... why deal with that????

So he drops the kids off AT SIX, I had just gotten home. He is 'concerned'. My DD told him about this cat that we were thinking of getting. He thinks it is a bad idea. I told him that I did not really ask him for his opinion, I think it is a great idea. He then told me to 'take care of his dog'. I laughed, again, and told him, "he is mine and the girls! You can't just abandon your dog, and then stake claim to him!"

He looked sad. It was kind of sad.... So he goes to hug me goodbye, and I hug him back (which I normally do not do) and he is just holding me. So I take his face, look into his eyes, and I kiss him. Not because I thought it was a bonding moment, but, to throw him off. I have not done that in several months.... He actually kissed me back. Then he said, "why did you do that?" I slapped him on his rump and said, "I just felt like it. Weren't you going to go now?" What made it kind of funny was that I could see that I threw him... and the only reason that I did was because I was feeling great today... and my girls were thrilled to see me, thrilled to be HOME, and I think that it bothered him. I am normally not like that, but for some reason I felt in control, and I felt great! I hope it continues......

Hi Sad:
The advice to me was to go to Plan B after a good interaction. Well, I didn't have that opportunity...I got to the end of my rope and had to go to Plan B immediately.

I'd say that interaction last night was a good one.

I say to to a pitch black Plan B right away.

That said...you are supposed to have all your financial stuff in order before you to to Plan B; have an intermediary set up, etc. before you go into Plan B, so getting that worked out should be the first step.

You will also have to do a PBL, but there are lots of examples here and if you post your sample letter, you can come here for feedback.

I'm still struggling with all of this...wondering why he would ever come back after he's been living the single life for so long, filing for D, opening spending time with OW. I can't help you there...just listen to others and take strength from their advice.

I also find it hard to "be about me." I also have that flicker of hope...I come close to extinguishing it, but somehow it acts like one of those joke birthday candles that doesn't blow out.

I try to think of it as greiving. That's normal.

Anyway...good luck. I'm with you...a lot of what you describe I also feel; please know that you are not alone.

LilSis