Good for you! You are probly heading out to your dinner anytime now.. I'm so happy for you!!

So we had our dinner. It was VERY NICE. He OPENED MY CAR DOOR (he has not done that in I do not know how long), waited until I sat before he did. Totally on his best behavior.

We had a very nice evening. It was like old times, when we were first dating... some flirting, laughing, chatter. All relaxed, and NORMAL. He took my hand during the dinner and apologized for being so terrible, and thanked me for not giving up on him. I said, "Oh I haven't?" And laughed.

He also mentioned how nice I looked the day before, and he wistfully said, "it is so nice to see you in a dress. That color was perfect on you." I said, "Thanks, I got a lot of compliments, I love that dress!" (It actually is one of those wonderful dresses that totally flatter you). On a side note, yesterday he was just LOOKING AT ME, with much appreciation. He wanted to know who I was going with, where I was going, why was I so nice looking. My answers, "I am going with a couple of people, in this town, and I want to look good." HA- HA! How does he like it???? LOL!

Anyway, back to tonight. We went back to the house, went for a walk, sat outside on the porch, talked, went inside, MADE OUT (we haven't done that in AGES), he tried a little for SF, and I said, "no, let's wait a while." He agreed, whatever I wanted.

So when he was leaving, he asked if we could spend more time together, he really has been enjoying it. He even said, "well, hanging out with my friends has gotten old. I miss hanging out with you, and the kids." He had his moony eyes whenever he would look at me. I said that this weekend we pretty much had stuff to do, but maybe next week we could do something. He said that he would call.

So it actually went great. No tension, no friction, just a nice time over all. What was funny too was that I had gotten flowers at my work thing yesterday, and I saw him look at them with slight shock, like, "who got those?" And he did not ask about them. How funny.

I remained calm, fun, in control of myself, and it went well.

Only time will tell! But I had FUN with him today. FUN for the whole time. And that has been missing for SO LONG with us. I think that he really did too. SO that was cool. I feel great about it all! YAY!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like it went well.

Just remember, this is the guy who said he could have this last forever... don't allow him to get it into his head that you two could indeed 'date' for the rest of your marriage while living apart.

Also.. do not freak out at the first sign of resistance or negativity he mnight show soon. He's going to fight the urge to come back home and give up his freedom. Men often have trouble swallowing their pride.

You may want to come up with a personal time frame to do this type of plan A in. It would make plan B even more effective.

Actually there was one thing that annoyed me a little. He was talking about this one guy that has been living with him and how he is not paying enough rent. So I told him that he should jack up the rent, and I was sure that he would move out soon after that. So my WH said, "Well, my lease comes up next month, the landlord said that they would want the new one signed next month if I wanted to stay." So I said, "Well, if you sign another lease, that will be it for us." He said, "what do you mean?" I said, "that will be it. I have decided that I am going to move on if you sign another lease." So he said, "Well, what if I move a lot closer, and we spend a lot of time together?" I said, "No, if you sign a new lease, that is it for me. I do not want to talk about it, fight about it or anything. I just am letting you know." So he said, "part of me wants to come back, part of me doesn't. I still don't know what I want." So I said, "well, now this will give you something more to think about. Maybe you will be able to decide what you want. But, we came out to have fun, so no more talk about these matters!" And that was that.

This was early in the night. It did not make a big impact, I just stated my case, and was done with it.

He called me today, and seemed ok. The funny thing is, he is just WAITING. WAITING for me to say something... anything... to make him not like me. And it is so obvious. But I am in a good state of mind, I am not going to. For example, he calls today to tell me that he is going out with the guy that lives with him. He was going to take a nap so he would not be so tired. One, I do not need to know, Two, it does not really matter anymore to me. So I said, "Wow, that sounds like fun! I hope you have fun. I have my next weekend all planned out, and I can use some fun too! I can't wait!" His reply? "Oh. Anything exciting?" I said, "no, not really."
So I am doing good not acting clingy at all, so I am pleased.

But, the first sign of resistance? What should I do? Just blow him off too? If he is fighting the urge to come back home, what? Just plan a when he is around????

I must plan for that...I am sure that it will happen, especially soon, since he seems to be slipping a little more under my spell...... LOL!

Good job. He needs to CONVINCE you BEYOND a shadow of a doubt that he is worth having back.

Aloof? A bit. That's ok. He deserves t/b kicked in the teeth (or lower - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />). So aloof is the mild version. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Keep moving forward. You have stated a boundary to him about the lease.

The WS in him may take it as a personal challenge so be prepared for him to sign that lease. He may do so just to push your buttons.

I would ask him why the change. Don't 2nd guess, ask and let him tell you. It may take a while to find out but be patient.

Time to use that clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

U R doing good.

Hugz,
L.

Orchid-
Well, I WAS doing good... I fear I backslid today. I got utterly annoyed with him. And I got testy. And a tad sarcastic. A tad is an understatement. Sigh. All of my positive work, POOF! Up in smoke.

Yesterday he had asked if he could, "maybe stay the night at the house, it would be nice." I said sure. So he calls me later, and you can practically HEAR the the noise of backpedaling. "Well, don't stay up, I might be there late. Is that ok?" I said, "that is fine, use the key so that I do not have to get up." He said ok. I then ask him, quiet clearly, "that is fine if you do not want to come over. Just tell me if you are not coming over." He says, "No, no, no. I WILL be there, I am not sure what time." I said ok. So I wake up at 4am, and I look downstairs, and he is not there. so I am like, "What the F! Why did he ask if he could stay, then he did this crap again." So, I made the ULTIMATE error. I CALLED HIM.

I know, I know. I know it was not the thing to do.

He answers. I say, "so I guess you decided not to come over?" He says, "I will be there to watch the kids. I told you that." So I said, "NOOOOOO, you said that you were going to stay the night. That is WHHHHYYYYY I gave you the key." He says, "Well, I changed my mind, no big deal." I said, "Yes, it is a big deal. You should have told me you changed your mind, then there would be no problems." He said, 'Sorry. I will see you soon."

He comes over, and has a coffee. Just for himself. I am mad at myself for two things: I believed that he would come over, and that I called him. So he comes over, gives me a BIG hug. I do not hug him back. So I say, "look, you said the other day that you liked how we were getting along (AGAIN!!!!!!!), but it upsets me when you change what is going on on the drop of a dime. I cannot get along with people that do that to me!" He says, "I know, I just need to stop thinking of you as the old sadmo. I am so sorry, I should have called, or come over. I am sorry." He hugs me again. So I say, 'I just want to get along too, but I cannot stand it when I am not told the truth." He said that he knew. We hug, I go to work.

Well, I came home from work, and he was here with the kids. I could tell IMMEDIATELY that the wall was up towards me.

Not happy greeting like he had been giving me, just kind of a blah , "Oh, hi". He stayed on the couch. He had been getting up to hug me or whatever. So I went upstairs, and thought about it. I came back down, and he said, "well if you do not have anything that you need to get done, I think I am going to go now." So I said, "of course, I expected as much." He says, "I told you I had plans tonight!" I said, "I know, and you had plans yesterday, Woo-hoo! It is a regular party with you! Except where I am concerned."

I know, I know. I knew as soon as it came out of my mouth.

He said, "I have been thinking about it. I really think that I gave you the wrong impression this past week. I just want us to get along for the kids, and be civil towards each other. I would like to go out every once in a while, to talk, to hang out. Whatever. But I get the feeling that you are getting the wrong idea."

So I say, "Oh, am I? Maybe it was you that was getting the wrong idea." He says, "Maybe." So I press on, "How are you getting the wrong idea?" He says, "I feel like you gave me an ultimatum with the whole lease thing. I feel like you are expecting me to move here with you and the girls. That is not what I want." So I say, "What DO you want? Have you figured it out yet? I am curious to find out this missing piece of your puzzle. It WILL be interesting! And I was not giving you an ultimatum. I am not asking you to move back in. I was telling you what I am going to do, for ME if you sign another lease. I am not going to be hanging around you, hugging you, kissing you, going out with you if I file for the D. That will be that. I am going to move FORWARD with my life, I am not going to stay in limbo. That is all that I was telling you."

So he says, "I know. I thought this would have been over with already. I am so sorry I have hurt you so much, I am so sorry that I have done all of this to you. I am so sorry." So I say, "well, then SHOW me that you are sorry. I would like to be able to believe it!" He says, "I do not know how to." So then he says, "You know, I just want to get along with you. I do not want anything more than that. I am sorry, I should not have messed around with you the other day, it was just so familiar, and comfortable. I just wanted to feel safe and secure." SO I said, "and this is bad? How?"

So he says, "I am leaving, I am not talking about this anymore. I will bring you a coffee in the morning." So I said, "Hey, why don't you throw in a t-shirt too. One that says, "All I got was a lousy cup of coffee instead of a conversation" He did not think it was funny.

So he leaves. I am now totally annoyed. Totally. So I call him ( I know, I know!) I say, "look, what do you want? What do you want out of life? What is going on with you? I am getting tired of the hot, cold, hot cold..." He says, "I know. That is why I did not go over last night. I did not want to give you the wrong idea." So I say, "So instead, piss me off. So you can justify everything. That is fine. If you are ****** bent on being 'free' and 'single' then be fine with all of it."

He says, "I just want to be able to stand on my own two feet! Is that too much to ask?" I say, "it looks to me that you have always stood on your own two feet, what is the problem?" He said, "I am sorry I confused you, Goodbye!" and CLICK!

Grr. I am mad at myself. Grr. I am mad at him. Grr. I should have seen it coming, I knew that it would come, I just did not react appropriately.

The thing is, I was thinking things were going so much better, that there was a flicker of hope. I am begininng to think that I just do not have patience in the long run for him, for our M to work. I am going to try to go back to aloof, fun, exciting Sadmo. But the thing is I fail the ultimate test: When it comes down to the wire with H, I always push him away. I do not know how to stop myself. I just want answers. And it annoys me that I never get them. Sigh.

Well, I guess that that clear mind, and calm heart went a little crazy on me.... (sheepish grin)

And I was doing so GOOD!

Well, the good thing about it at least is that I did not yell, scream, call names, use swear words, follow him around harping, pin him in a corner, refuse to let him leave, etc.

LOL! See, I can look at the positive!

And, last of all, I am not a sobbing wreck, I did not shed a tear, or even threaten to. So that is major improvement in my area.

Maybe all is not lost with me yet.......

The saga continues.... off into the wide yonder I go!

You are doing good sadmo. You may not see it but I do. I know how hard it is to love someone so much and want to just be able to show it, and to trust that they will be honest and faithful and show that care back towards you. you didn't LB nearly as much as I have done many times. Yet today my H came to my home and hugged me so sweetly and sincerely.. and I have LB'ed 1000 times worse than you did today. I hope you do have the strength to contine showing him what he is missing out on. And I also hope I have that same strength...

Hm.... did you really do that bad or what most of us would have done in that sitch?

As a BS, I don't see it as an LB slip. I saw it more of a vent.

An LB (love buster) w/b where there is love you, you try to bust it by some unkind word or deed.

JMHO,
L.

I have found out the problem with his depression today. Withdrawl from the woman that he was taking the kids on 'play dates' with. The woman that he was just friends with.
He told me this morning before I went to work. He was crying again as I said goodbye, and I just said to him, "you know, you remind me of someone that is sad because they aren't with someone that they care about." He nodded. I said, "It is C, isn't it?" He nodded.

Well, a couple of weeks ago he stopped hanging around with her. She wanted to be together, and he did not. He told her he did not want a R. She got mad, and stopped talking to him. He told me that he was ok, until a week later. And he realized. He realized that HE MIGHT HAVE MISSED HIS CHANCE TO BE WITH HER. AND HE HAD BEEN LYING TO HER, AND HIMSELF HOW HE FELT ABOUT HER. And, this is the kicker, he OWED it to her to tell her that. So I calmly told him that he can be with her, I will go and file for a D. I am not going to do this anymore. He tried to hug me. I pulled away and told him not to touch me. He was crying, and crying. I did not shed a tear. Did not feel the need to.

So there I sat. Eerily calm as I listened to him ramble. I went to work. I functioned fine. Then someone asked me to go out for a few drinks. I say sure. I did not call my WH. I did not tell him I was going to be late. I did not care. So I go out. He calls me several times. I finally leave after an hour and a half. I called him. And the torrent came out.

I was FURIOUS. FURIOUS with him. Furious that I worried about him. Furious that he was AGAIN leading me to believe that we were 'on the right path'. Furious.

I came home, he is going to his car right away, and I say to him, "You know what? You OWE me an explanation about last week. Were you using me, were you missing me, was I a fool? You OWE me that much." He says, "You were late, I owe you nothing." I go and sit in his car, like an idiot. I say, "you know what, I am not getting out until you tell me what was going on." He gets out, yells at me, "GET OUT OF MY CAR! ARE YOU NUTS!!" The neighbors are all outside. I say, "No. Not until you explain why you decided to F me over." He goes in the house, and comes out and says, "I called the police. They are on their way." I say, "that is fine. I am not going to be the one talking to them, so I will sit here, so you can deal with them." All the while thinking he is bluffing. So HERE COME THE COPS. I WAS FURIOUS. They came up to the car, I got out, the cop says, "what is the problem?" I calmly say, "I am not the one with the problem, hold on, I will be right back." I get him. I go in the house and lock the door.

I break down. I cannot believe he called the cops on me! I honestly was not acting crazy. I just wanted to know why the heck he had been so nice, and .... what I remember him being like, the last week.

So that is that. I am going to make an appointment with the D lawyer that I talked to already.

I am going to fight for everything that I can get out of this. I am not going to be compassionate towards him anymore. The gravy train is over. He has duped me one too many times. It is sad, but he used me, and I let him. I think that it will be good for him to flounder.

I just feel drained and sad right now. And, oddly enough, a sense of calm. I have decided what is going to happen, I am going to do it. I am in control of it. That is good.

I just wish that it turned out differently. I gave it a go though. I know that. I have to do this. It is no longer a question. I have to move on. I need stability in a R if I ever decide to have one, and I will not get that from him. It is sad but true.

If you look into the distance and see a flapping piece of fabric, and hear a 'whooshing' sound, that is me, throwing in the towel. And then burning it.

I did this as long as I could, to the best of my ability. And in the wise words of one of my closest friends, "Look Sadmo, you tried, you improved yourself, you have been happier. He is miserable, still does not know what the heck he wants. You are the winner here. You can have piece of mind that you did what you could to save your M. And, you came out a better person because of it. He is still the same person, if not worse. You took a bad situation and tried to turn it around. He took a bad situation, and kept making it worse."

And it is true. Gotta love friends that can calm you and bring you back to earth.

So that is my saga.

Sadmo.. this is where I am. You are not alone. I dont' know where you live or what your real name is.. but I know you and the pain you are in. Our husbands took a bad situation and kept making it worse. It kills me but that is how it is. I'm sorry...

FIL-

Thanks. It just sucks that I allowed myself to be "Hooverized" by him again.
How does the expression go?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me two thousand times, shame on me!

LOL!

Thanks for the support.

PLan B time, Sadmo.

This was exactly what I warned you about-- the resistance you would meet.

This is also why I have a hard time with Plan Aing a WS who has already moved out... its so easy for them to suck you in. BS's tend to get overly excited by the initial posiive responses then freak out at the first sign of resistance. Sort of like you are doing right now.

For me...the cops showing up would just end it all. That was utterly stupid and COWARDLY on his part. And how horrible for your kids to have to deal with.

DO you need another reason to go dark now and cut him off?

Stop chasing him for explainations. You actually were badgering him-- and its not an attractive trait to a WS. A WS really does get a twisted pleasure out of a BS trying to get their attention.

Time to restructure your plan and follow it to the letter.

Sadmo,

Sorry to hear of your ordeal. I can relate to your incident. In a moment of stupidity, the WS in my case did the same. He called 911 and 4 CHP officers came out. Guess what they found.... not a wacko BS but an angry WS who because he couldn't control his temper got himself arrested for verbally attacking the CHP officers who were all bigger than him.

What the WS was doing when the 911 call went out was trying to stop me from throwing out his stuff. I had enough of the false recoveries and when d/d hit again, I immediately went into plan B w/o the pleasure of packing his things. Suits, went out as they hung and his folded clothes were flung out in a garbage bag. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

As he was trying to stop me, he dialed 911. The dispatch heard him push me around because as he was telling his version he was pushing me to stop me from sending his clothes on the front lawn. Somehow he was embarrassed the neighbors would find out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Dumb WS, the neighbors already knew. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I made sure the dispatcher knew he was pushing me around. I am much smaller than him so a push could send me flying. It didn't send me flying as far but he did push me and the officer who witnessed one of the more 'gentle pushes' said it was enough for them to arrest the WS on DV charges. That put him away for 2 1/2 days and when he came out, there he went to spend some 'fun time' with the OW. LOL!!! He called begging to come home by the end of his 10 day RO. OW was furious and she told me to take him back. I told him to stay put, that I had to think about it. LOL!!!

So for now, I want you to stay calm. This is when your clear mind and calm heart needs to kick in. You had every right to ask him about last week. You still do. If he refuses to explain, he isn't worth having back as is.

Hugz,
L.

Mojo-

I know I was badgering him. I was just so upset.

I think the cops showing up is my straw. I just cannot sit here, in limbo any longer. Plus, if he is mourning the loss of someone that wanted 'more' and now he is missing her? What is that? After MONTHS, and MONTHS of telling me, "I do not want a R, blah, blah, blah.

I really am going to file for a D. I need to. I cannot go dark, knowing that he is out there, pining after some other W. It is just not me.

Can you plan B, while doing a plan D? LOL!

Seriously though. Gravy train- gone. Support for him- gone. Trying to accommodate him- gone.

In the words of him this morning (him being WH):
"there is no hope for us, unless I come begging for you back on my hands and knees, until that happens, there is no hope." Followed by, "But, I still want us to do things as a family, and get along, sob, sob, I really have been enjoying getting along."

I bet you have sucker. Is what popped in my mind. Now, I am thinking IF the day that he ever did appear on my doorstep, begging me to come back, would that be an open invitation to quickly kick him in the mouth? LOL! Sigh. But then he WOULD have a reason to call the cops.

Thanks again.

Orchid-
It is all so much drama. These waywards. The "Wicked Waywards of the World".

What I kind of find funny in all of this is that he always accused ME of loving drama. Now all I have to do is sit back, and enjoy the show, and there will be SOME kind of happening.

On a side note, he called me at work today to ask me if my sister's exbf (also his friend, not so much anymore) that I am going to meet for drinks this weekend was at my house last night. (yeah, I am that kind of trashy mom! No WAY!) His proof? He found evidence. What evidence? Supposedly an ashtray. Does ANYONE ever smoke in my house? No. Then he said to me, "Just do me a favor, and don't sleep with him." I told him that I would sleep with him if I wanted, but I would be sure to use protection! WH then said, "I ran into him last night, and he said to me, "I hear you and my woman went out on a date- stay away from her!" This was a joke, but he did not think it was funny. But, I DID. In fact, I thought, for someone who does not want to be with me, does not like me 'like that' he seems to get awfully bothered by the fact that other men talk to me.

Ha. Good for him. And me! :-)

wow sadmo.. are you sure we aren't married to the same man? Craziness! The horrible weekend that I didn't want to elaborate on, included WH calling the police on me too. He acts all lovey one day, then the next day, I ask a question he doesn't feel like answering, so I did like you, I said, we need to discuss this and I'm not leaving till you explain to me why you lied to me again. And he dials 911. Jeezzz...

Same thing of accusing me of loving drama.. but he's the one insanely jealous. After the 911 call removed me from his house, we decided to meet at a public place to exchange kids. Afterwards, he sees me talking to a mutual male friend.. in broad daylight. He stomps back over, calls me a f***ing ******, and starts a shoving match with the guy! So then someone calls the police on him! The next day, he calls and says his mom can't watch the baby during his b-ball game and can i come pick him up. I go over, door is open, no answer to my knock, so I go in. They are downstairs in the family room, baby crawls up to me, I pick him up. WH is yelling why I just barge in and immediately dials 911. Unbelievable. Of course he's calling apoligizing the next day. Then after sucking me back into his weirdo wayward world all week, tonight he goes out of his way to pull the rug right out from under me!!!

Sorry to hijack.. I just couldn't believe the similarities. And yes, if WH calling the police is the last straw , then mine calling them twice is definately the last straw! I am so done too. I'm so tired of playing this game to "win" someone back who should be loyal enough that we shouldn't have to go through this he*l to keep the dubious privilege of being their wife! Hang in there.. I'll be thinking of you..

FIL-

LOL! WHERE do you live?? I am wondering the same thing!!!

I talked to my brother last night, and he said that my H (and probably yours too!) seems like he has Border Personality Disorder. You should look it up. There are a LOT of similarities between my WH, and someone that has it.





Amen to that! My thoughts exactly! They should be proving to US that they want us back, after all of they games that they played.

I am going to look forward, not back now. I read this one quote, I may not have it completely right, but this is how I feel right now, and I hope is true!

Everytime a door closes, a new door to happiness opens. The problem is is that sometimes we spend so much time looking at the door that is closed that we do not see the open door to happiness right in front of you.

Something like that....But I am choosing to believer that it is true. And that I WILL have happiness that is drama free (as much as it could be) somewhere down the road with someone else. Right now, NUMBER ONE needs to be taken care of. And I am going to do it.

Wish me luck! I am going to call the lawyer today... a little scary, but not as scary as when I called the first time, a sobbing confused wreck. Now I have an agenda:look out for my kids, and me. He is off of the radar. No more guilt for 'putting him through this or that' none. He put me through a LOT more than I ever did to him.
And... I never called the police on him. Hmmmm. Maybe I should if he tries to come into my house anymore? This could be fun....

Take care!

Orchid-
Actually, I got to thinking about the "whys" of last week. And I remember that yesterday morning he was rambling, as I sat there in my numbed stupor he said something along the lines of, he felt he owed it to me to give our M a shot, but after he was spending time with me, and having good times, he would go home and think of her. I numbly said, "then that is why you should have stayed here with me, to give our M the best shot." He said, "No, I am too afraid that we will just go back to what we were before." I told him that he should look forward, not back, and he said, "I know." Then he rambled on about OW. What made me so mad when I came home was that he preferred to start a new R with someone else, someone he just met in Jan. than to repair our M. And she mattered more to him than me. I was just so upset.

But, today is a new day, I see an ending to all of this drama, a light at the end of the tunnel. Freedom from this uncertainty. And I want that, and I need that. He sucks me back in all of the time, and I lose some of what I have gained to make me a better person. I do not want to lose that anymore. I want to be happy, true, and real. I want to know what is going on, and have some kind of say in it. I want my power back. And it is back. I can stand up for myself now, I picked myself up from the ashes of this M, and I am moving ahead. Sure I may look back sometimes, but not with regret. I gave 150% We are just too different anymore, he is not growing with me, or in the same direction. He is looking still for his happiness. I have found that. I have it in my attitude, my kids, my pets, my friends, my work, my family. I am a good person, I know what is important to me. He is lost. I cannot spend anymore of my precious time shining a light towards him to help him find himself.

I feel at peace about this today. It will be ok.

Sadmo,
That is what I'm looking for, is peace. Your words give me hope that I may find it as well. Today I feel much hurt and sadness. But I do think I am somewhat addicted to WH and if I spend a few days without him and his drama, I will feel better. So it's back into plan b for me. That is, until plan D is complete. So you are starting the D today? Wow.. big step. I had filed way back in January because he was threatening to take the children. I also needed a court order to guaruntee child support as he had not been helping out on his own. So once I got the temp orders, I've just been trying to stall. But now I don't care. Let it come. Our final court date is June 14th. It makes me very sad but I'm so beyond tired of trying to convince someone they want me and our family, when they just plain don't want it! Or at least not if it involves any kind of work on their part.

As far as the Borderline Personality Disorder.. our MC actually diagnosed my WH with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Which is in the same cluster of disorders as Borderline and Anti-social. They often somewhat overlap each other within the same cluster. It saddens me because these disorders are often a result of childhood abuse, which in my H's case, was severe. But even though I feel compassion for him, it does no good if he just continues to push me away and prefers superficial relationships to a close relationship with me.

I'm hoping to feel some peace soon. I'm praying for it. And I'm happy you are ok.