Sadmo, start with the above link to writing a Plan B letter. Also, don't assume that your WH knows anything that he wants. You have no idea what he wants, only what he says and does in his fogland. This is when Plan B is a great savior.

You, obviously, still want him around, and he, by his actions, still wants to be around, so Plan B him, let him live on his own, fend for himself, pay CS, pay alimony (if you can get it), leave him to be on his own. He hasn't been on his own YET. It's time his choices come to fruition. What's the worst that could happen? You'll get divorced (aren't you heading that way?) You'll fall completely out of love? (again, heading that way).

Get the Plan B letter together.

Plus set it up and be firm with visitations no stopping in when it's conveient (sp?) for him to get his quick fix! I will never understand why some parents think of themselves as babysitters when they have to look after their own kids, what an insult to the kids and the other parent....

I use to work in retail and let me tell you it sucked because upper management would take advantage of all those who did their jobs. like they were paid to do.... I worked my a** off, while coworkers woul take ciggs breaks, talk on the phone to their frends or hang outside of the store, me while I and others would be inside doing our jobs, uppers did not care as long as the store was clean and everything in it's place.

I finally had it when a manager said something to me as how the store looked the next day, my side was clean while the other side of the store looked like a bomb had hit,
I told her that talked to H and C, if she had a problem with how it looked over there.

Why did I ramble with the story above because it dawned on me that I was letting them treat me this way, picking up the slack for others who did not give a damn that they were getting paid to clean and help others.

I got smart and stood up for myself, because I basically told them that it was ok by me to be treated this way... that I was an endless pit of " give it to swan because she'll do it" ...

Same thing with my family, growing up I was the youngest so I'm not sure if this is the reason, but I would put myself out for them again and again, I just started saying no when I could not help with what ever, yes at first I did feel guilty, but hey if you can not do it, you can not do it.

SL- thanks for the link!

SS- I hear you. I am the DREADED middle child... older brother, younger sister.

What happened in my family is that for whatever reason my mom was never really close to me. Why? No one knows. But I was the one that would do the most to help her, was always considerate, you know, did what I could do to please her.

My little sister on the other hand... my mom loved her, she could do no wrong. EVER.

This is when we were kids. I am on my own, I generally have the R with my mom that is fine. She does not really call me to talk or anything, she will talk if I call her.

Me and my Dad get along fine. We have a real R. He treats me like an adult that he loves and cares about, and he is there for me to help me out if I need it, and he does nice things for me. He is like me, a doer.

Well, a year and a half ago, my sister broke up with her BF. Me and my WH would hang out with them a lot. This was the last of our 'couple friends'. Others had moved, D'd, we moved, etc.

My sister started to hang around my house. She would spend the night on the weekend. Which was fine at first. Then I realized that she would stay here until RIGHT BEFORE I GOT HOME FROM WORK. So she would basically hang out all day, with my H.

I told them both I was NOT comfortable with that. Talked to my parents. My mom DEFENDED HER. She is my SISTER.

Then I come to find out that my WH would stop by and visit her at work once in a while. Found this out by accident.

Again, told both of them that I was NOT comfortable with this. I told my sister that if my WH stopped by to see her, I wanted her to call me and tell me.

Did she? NO. She FORGOT that part of the agreement. I started to get VERY ANGRY at her, and of course my WH.

I told him it was disrespectful of him to be spending time with her. He should visit ME at work once in a while. He told me that they were just 'friends'.

She told me that I never would have met my WH if it were not for her (true). She had no interest in him.

Me and my WH went to counseling. The MC told WH that his contact with my sister needed to stop immediately. That she should not be around if I was not around, he was setting the scene for something to happen, if it had not happened already. My WH denied it. A WHOLE counseling session was spent on my WH trying to justify that they were just friends, and she was my sister. I kept pointing out that if it were HIS sister, it would be a different thing, but it is MY sister.

The whole time this is going on, my Mom defended my sister. When I would tell her about things that were upsetting me, I was told that I had an 'anger' problem. That maybe if I did not nag my H so much he would want to spend time with me. My Mom then sat my WH down on at least two occasions, where he cried, said that he loved me, wanted to work things out. My mom told him that SHE UNDERSTOOD HOW HARD I WAS TO GET ALONG WITH. SHE UNDERSTOOD HOW I WAS. SHE HAD TO DEAL WITH ME GROWING UP. SHE KNEW. She then told him that we had kids, and even though we are not getting along, that we should try, for the kids. I did not know she had this convo. with him. It was after the fact. I found out because one day, my WH blurted out, "even your mom understands what I have to deal with with you! She knows how you are, she even feels sorry for me!"

I was like what? Later I called my Mom. Was told that yes, she did tell him those things. I asked her why? She said, "Let's face it Sadmo, you are a difficult person to deal with." I told my brother this, who talked to my mom and asked her why she would have done that. SHe tearfully told him that all she cares about is her grandchildren. She feels sorry for my WH. She kept saying this. My brother said that he calmly pointed out that not one time did she say that she cared about me. She said, "well, of course I care about her."

I was so upset. My mom took my WH side on the whole sister thing. The whole going out thing. She told him that maybe he should curtail the going out. Did not tell him that he should stop. She basically told my WH what he NEEDED to hear from someone: That I was impossible to deal with.

And he went with it.

I stopped talking to my sister for many months. She would apologize, then in the next breath tell me that I drove my WH away, and it is not her fault. I told her that I had asked her to stay away, and she did not. She then would get mad at ME.

I asked her to stop talking to him on the phone. If he called to tell him that she did not want to talk to him.

She did not.

After all of this happened, and WH moved out, I was driving my kids to my parents house, and my DD said, "Auntie was at Daddy's house the other day. She tucked me in and in the morning we went out to breakfast!"

My blood ran cold. I called WH. He denied that she spent the night, but since I was not talking to my sister, she wanted to see the kids. I said that if she wanted to see the kids, she could talk to me, or see them at my parents house. It was a sorry excuse.

I went to my parents. I was so upset. My Dad was furious with my sister. My Mom defended her. "You keep her away from the kids! She is just friends with your H!" I just looked at her and said, "You know what, you have not supported me one time in any of this. You are MY MOM! When I asked if you could watch the kids, when I was really depressed about it all, you said NO, when I asked to visit, so I did not have to sit at the house alone with the kids, you said no! You talked to my H, and helped justify his behavior! WHY????"

She just sat there and cried. I left for work. I forgot to mention that when my H left, and it hit me, and I was SUPER depressed about it, I would call my parents, and if my mom answered, she would say, "I do not want to hear about this, I get so upset when any of my kids are upset!"

Fast forward to now. I basically know that I cannot expect much from my mom. Me and my sister kind of made up. It will never be the same. She has a drinking problem, and she is going through tough times (And then my bleeding heart kicks in).

What upsets me about the R that I had with my sister, my mom, and my WH is that I felt betrayed by all of them. When I was down, I felt kicked. And it hurt that three important people in my life basically abandoned me in my moment of need. I had not really realized how shallow they all were. So on top of dealing with my WH leaving, I had to deal with my mom basically letting me deal on my own, while she defended my sister, and I lost my sister, or at least the close R that we once had. It was heartbreaking. It all created a huge rift in the family, my aunt was upset with my mom (my mom told her the story, and my aunt was shocked she did not defend me), my brother and SIL did not talk to my sister anymore for a long time after this (me and my brother are very close) after he tried to talk to her about why I was so upset, how she could mend the R with me. She basically told him to F himself. So it was rough.

So basically these are the R's in my life that are not good. I am good with my friends, other relatives.

I know that sometimes it is better to distance people from your life that are not good for you. And I have had to do that with my mom, and my sister, and my WH. But I still let them all in, if they want to be let in.

A trifecta!

But, like I said, I am ok, it just sucks a lemon sometimes when I look back, and nothing is like it was, and the illusion is over.

Just thought that I would shed some light on my areas of weakness (family).

Just a side note, WH called already today. Left a message that he was sorry about yesterday, he had a bad day at work, and he said things that he should not have said. He loves his kids, he did not mean to act so put out. Call him.

So I ran to the phone, and called him. Tears of joy coursing down my face! I forgive you!

JUST KIDDING!!!

No, I will not call him back. Me and my kids are going to the water park in a minute with some of my work friends, it will be fun! Have a lovely day everyone! It is beautiful out by me today!

Sadmo

I lost my mom in 2002 and not a day goes by with out me missing her, right after she died my mind went into this denial dementia where it let me think that she was just on a long vacation and would be coming home soon, I think that lasted for a year along with the dreams of her havining cancer and them being cancer free and all of us (my sisters and I) afraid that the cancer would be come back...

So it breaks my heart to say this but I think you should add your mother to your Plan B list.

Just like marriages some are not ment to be saved. Before I even heard of this site and Plan B I've come to realized that I Plan B-ed my older sister who was so mean and evil to me growing up, if she could make me cry she would, it was so bad that it affected the way I deal with people.

Grwoing up I thought or maybe I should say I knew that people did not like me, because If my own sister hated me and treated me like sh*t,why in the ****** would people I went to school with or met with like me, since she proved that I was not worthy of any friendship and love or affection, I learned to be a blankface so she wouldn't know when she had scored some points off of me.........

Even to this day I have little interaction with her hi and bye but conversations know...she is very toxic and I feel sorry for her because she is so bitter and has let hatred fill her heart.

Since you have tried to no avail to let your mom know that your heart is open to her, and she finds fault even with that. just let her go, you have your brother and father to love and support you. Sad to say but sometimes it just is what it is.

Have fun with your little ones.

Oh, Sadmo, I get where you are coming from, except I am the youngest, older(middle) sister, older brother (eldest).

I was a giver, I was a doer, I was a bendoverbackwardsforya. I stopped that, as I said, when I got to be a teenager. My sister was pretty mean to me. I think whatever my brother dished out to her, would then trickle down from her to me. There were times that she would walk up to me and hit me, WHAM! Immediate fighting ensued. I didn't understand that one, until I got older. Her pain was so great that she passed it on to me, and to her friends. She still tries to do that, but I don't allow it, for I do not cause her pain.

My mother and sister had a strainded relationship, partly because my sister treated HERSELF so poorly. She became involved with guys that were poison. They would hit her and berate her and CHEAT on her on the regular. I hated to see this. I felt so sorry for my big sis.

My sister, in turn, was angry with my mother for leaving our alcoholic/abusive father, maybe even believing that it was my mom's fault that daddy was like that. My mother remarried when she was about 10, and moved us to Germany with our military step dad. My sister was molested twice while we were there. Her R with SD was horrendous, and my sister felt unprotected by my mother, and to some extent, I agree with that statment. It SEEMED like we children never came first, EVER.

I, in the meantime, faded into the woodwork. I was silent. No one noticed me, life was so dramatic for my sister and mom, that I just faded away. I felt ignored. I had to be extra loud, obnoxious, or super funny in order to feel attended to. My step father did appreciate my presence when i did something for him, or handed him a great report card. He never doted on me, but he did show pride in some of my accomplishments. (Meanwhile, I am drinking at the age of 11 and smoking since I was much younger--can we say LATCHKEY KID). It was a horrible mess.

My sister and I had a great friendship (when she wasn't randomly abusing me), relied on eachother for comfort and laughter, had our own little world, UNTIL she became a teenager. She had boyfriends and I no longer existed. She hated having to take me with her to places. She made fun of me, treated me horribly. Slowly, our relationship fell. We no longer liked each other. I watched my sister go from one bad R to another. It was so difficult to watch, so I stopped paying attention.

I know this story is so long and I could go on and on. It has a lesson inside a lesson. Number one, your children always come first when deciding on your marital fate. Consider saving the M to help save them SOME of what happens when parents D, and one goes off the deep end. Sometimes D is the best thing (which I believe it may have been in my mother's case), but remarry WELL, never so you just don't have to tough it out anymore or are lonely.

Second, the relationships that we have teach us things. Early on, my R's taught me to do everything I could to please. Since growing up a bit in my late 20's, and my mother dying, and having a child and the latest crap, I have learned that you are who you are. You must accept your weaknesses and work on them. Rely on your strengths to help you. Not all mothers and daughters have stellar R's. I did, with my mom, but my sister did not. Work with what you got. I wouldn't cut your mom out, but I would draw those lines in the sand, reinforce your boundaries, and KNOW who your mother is, her weaknesses (that you are aware of) and her capacity in your life.

SS and SL-
I am not going to cut my mother out. I had decided that after all was said and done, she is my mother, and I need to either accept her, failings and all, or cut her out.

I chose to not cut her out.

I try to accept her, I sometimes get upset with her. Such as when everything is ALWAYS my fault. But I know it is not my fault, I know that it is her a lot of times.

It hurt me pretty badly, say 8 months ago. But I have gotten stronger and I am in a good place.

On a side note, I just thought this was rather, shall we say, obvious, of WH.

I had copied him the John Legend CD (first one) and there is this WONDERFUL song, "ordinary people" on it. Basically the man does not know which way to go.

I copied this for him MONTHS ago. He never listened to it. So he leaves a message today, "I really enjoy that album... especially 'Ordinary People. Maybe I can sing it for you someday. I am planning on singing it when I do karaoke on Fri. Thanks for giving me that album, it is great."

I think that he is thinking that I am pulling away from him. So he is going to pull out the 'big guns' and try to appeal to my emotional side (apology, listening to that cd...) so that I will think, "Oh, he is so moved, and so wonderful! I will keep the status quo!"

W/E.

On a bright note, me and the girls had a WONDERFUL time today. It was so fun. We went to the water park, stayed there for hours, ate, picked up my big, wonderful, loyal dog (he is a mutt, I have a husky also) and took him to a nature preserve, where they have a huge pond. There were plenty of fish, and frogs, and we even saw a few turtles. Took a long hike, played at the playground area, then left. We then caught 18 (yes my DD counted them) Lightening bugs! I got them ready for bed, and they crashed!

My little angels. Such sweet hearts. My younger D is just a little love. After their baths, she told me "Ma-Ma, your hair is messy. I make you cute." She then combed my hair in this ridiculous comb-over look, and proclaimed me as "cute". My older D looked at me and said, "you are NOT cute Mommy. Look in the mirror."

It was priceless.

I have decided that I am going to have one just fun day for me and the girls on one of my off days, and the other day will be for me to do normal things (household stuff) and whatever I have time for for the kids. We had a blast today, and I think we should keep doing things like that.

Thanks again for the inputs!

Hi, Sadmo...I love what you did with the girls...I'm like that with the boys...like you were saying one day for them adn the other for the household stuff...

This weekend is POWS weekend...but next weekend, I'm having a b-day party for the boys...they are 4 years, 8 days apart...so I'm renting a bounce house, and then Sunday, I'm going to take them bowling...

My YS has been wanting to go seems like forever...so that's his b-day treat from me...OS is getting his favorite pizza tomorrow night and I was just talking to BC and think that I'm goingt o do a picnic thing at the park tomorrow afternoon, if it doesn't rain...

A little surprise to them...I have the perfect park too...OS's been asking to go to this one...

Spending time with them it what helps keep me positive...playing with them and just enjoying being...

I had to laugh about the brushing of the hair...my boys will sometimes do that to me...or sometimes I will ask them if they will brush my hair...

LMAO...have to train them young for their GF's and W's...LMAO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You seems to have a good handle on your mom, can you look in on lieslies...witht he drama of yesterday I missed her post and she really needed someone...it was dealing wth her mom...perhaps you or someone else has some insight or something inspiring for her...I would appreciate it...

I look forward to hearing about those girls...take care!

Rin

Striven-
I will look in at lieslies, I have been busy, I did not really get a chance yet...

A small update for me...

I have been in a good place, and now it appears that my WH is JEALOUS of me. He seems confused... why is Sadmo so happy? Why is he so sad? He does not get it. He does not understand that he did not think things through, and that the grass is NOT always greener on the the other side.

It is great.

His 'single' lifestyle is catching up with him. He is too old for it to be much fun anymore (or so he has told me). It is kind of funny.

When he came here Sunday to drop off the kids, he lurked around. I was playing with the girls and the cat. He asked me if I could join him outside. So I said sure. I went outside. He then said, "you know, I am not happy. I am not happy with anything in my life except my girls and my job. It sucks." I said I was sorry he felt that way.

He then went on about how he is surrounded by losers, he has not made any new friends, he is bored and lonely.

WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO SAY ABOUT THIS??? What did I WANT to do (the evil Sadmo side of me....) Laugh and say I told you so.

But I said, 'I am sorry you feel this way, I do not know what to tell you."

He just looked at me. Then he said that he would get going. I told him that was fine. He left.

He called today to tell the girls goodnight. He told the oldest he wanted to talk to me. I got on the phone. He said that he was anxious, and stressed. I asked why. He said that he did not know. I did not say anything.

I then said, "well, I was wondering what you wanted to do about the fourth, if you wanted to have the girls for any fourth of July activities."

He said, "I will play it by ear."

I said, "No, I am not going to play it by ear. I am having a cookout on the fourth, and I was going to plan the rest of our activities based on what you wanted to do with them. I would like to know what you want to do."

He said that there was a firework show that he wanted to take them to. I asked him what day.

He said, all depressed sounding, "well, since YOU have something to do on the fourth, I guess I will take them on the third." I said that that sounded good, and I would let him go.

He called back. He said, "Maybe we can do something together on the third? Take them together or something." I said I did not think so, I had stuff I had to get done if he had them. He said that he understood.

I am not really in a plan B, but I am not chasing him, and I am not considering him in my day to day activities.
I know that it is going to be tough for him while he goes through the withdrawal of his OW, and then I am sure that he will go through some sort of withdrawal from me, if he is not already.

Sad thing is that I already did go through that for him. I know what day to day life is like not being able to depend on him. I have been living it.

Which gets me thinking. I know that people can survive infidelity. But, I think, that it is really hard to NOT think that someone was just not that into you and that is why they would do that to begin with. And not only that, it makes me wonder, in my case at least, if my WH were to suddenly 'decide' that he wanted to work things out, what would I do?

I DO NOT KNOW. I know that I would be thinking, "oh, you just want to come back to old reliable Sadmo... not that you really WANT old Sadmo." And I think that would haunt me. Especially since he was SO DEVASTATED over the OW dumping him when his feelings were so intense for her.

I don't know. Just putting that out there.

I am doing well though!

You will know by his ACTIONS whether you are the boobie prize or he has made a life decision to change himself and do what needs to be done to commit to a loving marriage.
I'm glad you aren't chasing him. But you really do need to cut him off. How is the paperwork going?

Mojo-
The paperwork is going fine.

It is just kind of depressing sometimes. Like today, he called to tell the girls goodnight, and we ended up arguing. About how much he 'watches' the kids.

The problem? Me and a few friends were going to go out this weekend to see some singer on Friday. WEEKS AGO I asked WH if he could switch Fridays with me, I would watch them overnight on one that he had, if he could watch them for me overnight on this one. He agreed.

I asked him if he would mind watching them until about 2 the next day (I was taking my mom, grandma, sister, aunt, and SIL) while I spent time with the 'women' of the family. He agreed. It was fine with him. More time with the kids.

Long story short, he planned on only watching the kids until after the neighborhood parade (at my house), and then he was going to leave. I told him that we had agreed on this, he told me we hadn't.

I told him we had (and he had!) but that was fine, I would see if my brother could watch the kids. He said no.

Then he said that he wants me to have it written in the visitation that he only gets the kids every second weekend, so he will only be 'bound' by that.

WTF??????

I tried to calmly talk to him (I tried!). I said, "You know, you said that you wanted them for four hours on Wed. and you wanted to watch them while I worked every second weekend, along with having them every second weekend."

He said, "I changed my mind. I do not want to be bound to that when you are taking advantage of me. I would like to be able to sleep in on weekends once in a while! It is not my fault that you have to work weekends Sadmo!"

So I said, "Ok, have it written that you will only get them every second weekend? I have that right?" He said, "Yes. But I still want to see them like I have been."

I said, "This is a serious matter, I want you to think about it. I hesitate to be so flexible with you seeing the kids. I do not like the "well, Daddy will stop by for 5 minutes, and isn't he a great dad!"

And you know what he said? He said, " You know, I do not care that you are going out. But I just wanted to point out that you go out a LOT, LOT, LOT more since we have split up. You should be glad that you get every second weekend to do what you want."

So I said, "you know I work every weekend. Which means that MY off days are ALWAYS spent entirely with the kids. Which is fine. The only time that I can say to any of my friends, freely, "sure, let's go out!" Is every second weekend, or I have to find a sitter, or I can't go. I always have to think of the kids first, which is what parents do."

He said, (I kid you not) "You did not go out like this when we were married."

I said, in an incredulous voice, "I did what I thought was BEST for our marriage, I did not think that going out all of the time was the best thing to do, but I really regret now that I did not do whatever the [email]H@ll[/email] I wanted to, because it would not have mattered anyway! AND, I would have at least had fun once in a while!"

At which point he said, "I am tired, I have to go to bed. Don't be mad, I am just mad that I did not remember what you had said. Have a goodnight Sadmo."

I STRUGGLE with the things with the kids. I REALLY, REALLY DO.

I want them to see him as much as he can. I really do. But, on the other hand, I do not want it to be that it is ONLY at his convenience either. And it makes me mad that he b*tches at me whenever he has the kids, and I am not at work. Like I am not allowed to have fun. I do not have the right.

I think that I just continuously give him more credit than he should have.

That I think of him like my dad. That I think that at least his head is out of the clouds with the kids at least.

And it makes me sad, for my kids, that he acts like he is so put out.

In one breath, he was saying how he now has NO social life. In the next, he wants to be able to HAVE a social life. And in the next breath, he HAS a social life that has been curtailed by watching the kids.

AMAZING. That is all that I have to say.

Can we say.....babble? He wants what he wants the way he wants it and even if you do accommodate, he won't be happy because you are accommodating him. Get it?

So best you tell him, look it appears you want t/b unreasonable. Given that, here's the schedule. Remember WS, this life you choose is YOUR choice. Love it!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

L.

Better yet, Sadmo, stop talking to him at all. I just don't get what YOU get out of talking to him, and you do talk to him every time he wants.

I'm sorry if I sound frustrated. I am a bit. You keep doing the same thing over and over again, with what seems like an expectation that he will be different somehow.

Nothing will change until change occurs, one way or another. You have the power to change this sitch.

About the kids, and how often your WH sees them, there is nothing, repeat NOTHING, you can do to GET him to see himself as a father, and not a babysitter. This is part of the reason that I suggested an LSA. You would have already ironed out visitation by now. But that's neither here nor there at this point. You two are where you are, which is rutted in nowhereland.

Sadmo, you can affect change on your end. You can choose to stop talking to your WH, get an intermediary for things regarding the children, and begin to heal, get a more clear picture of what you want and need. Right now, WH has you spinning your wheels, and you choose to do it with him.

Don't be angry with the babble if you choose to listen to it, fully well knowing that is what you are going to get. Make this about YOU, Sadmo. Your focus is completely on a wayward making sense. He won't. If you make ANY decisions based on his babble, you are giving in to a LOON!

Agree with all said.

Sadmo, can you not see the pattern that he sets and you follow, everytime you pull away and show him how it will be when the divorce goes thru, he I think becomes scared? or mad? that things are no longer working in his favor, he drags you back in with the oh feel sad for me I left my wife and kids and now I'm all confused crap.

Yeah that would work if he followed it up with actions, but for him its only to get a reaction from you!! and you fall for it all the time. nothing has changed from the all the back and forth between y'all,

You can not control him if you could I think he would be there with you all, so the next time he wants to engage on the whole kids things do not argue with him, just say you will make other arrangments.

Sadmo,

I want you to know that we are with you, but this is a MB website, a MB forum. There are techniques here that can help you, not only with your M, but with your own 'issues'. We all have them, issues, that is, and must face them in order to move out of the muck that we create.

If you choose to follow the MB plans, you may find YOURSELF, again. Despite what you say, your actions show that you are still a part of the push-pull cycle of a broken down relationship. I just wonder if you aren't going to burn-out before too long.

ECHO
ECHO

Ok, Ok, I hear you.

I know that my situation is not special or unique.

I have accepted that we are not going to work things out.

I just want to get out of the whole 'bickering' over kid issues. I do not want to keep the kids from him, but on the same vein, I do not want him thinking that he can just do 'whatever' but it will only be written that he will see them every second weekend. Because, as I said, I think that that is what I should live up to then, after all is said and done.

And I do not want to be the "b@tch" that kept him away from the kids, because of a piece of paper.

But, I do not want to be the person that lets him come around whenever it is convenient for him either.

That is what I was trying to get at, albeit not very clearly. That I want the child custody arrangements to be written in a very fair manner to begin with. I wanted to iron this all out before it all became 'official'.

I was just upset that he got that way about the kids. That he is throwing one of his baby temper tantrums, and now the kids were going to get the short end of the stick.

They have suffered enough. I do not want to deprive them of having him around them as much as possible.

What it is is that he is just hitting me on my weak spot now. (the kids) Since I have not been chasing him around. He wants a reaction, and I gave it to him. Big mistake. I need to realize that he is doing this, but it was a newer topic - not US, it was the kids, and I reacted.

I hear you all. Some of my patterns and reactions are just so ingrained that I do not even realize THAT I do them. That I was dancing the same old dance again. Really. Hindsight is 20/20... and so are 2x 4's.

I need to keep repeating to myself, "He is NOT going to be reasonable, he is NOT going to be reasonable..." Every time I talk to him. I keep lapsing into this benign territory, where I am friendly to him, not too friendly, I am not pushing, questioning, etc. But then I slip up and forget WHO I am dealing with when there is an issue that needs to be brought up.

Thanks.

When a WS babbles and a BS listens, that's a setup to fail scene.

Stop choosing to act in a failed drama. Instead choose a real life positive role that has benefits.

The sitch is not unique, wish it was but nope.....we all get to play the fool at some point. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Do NOT let him get to you about the children. U R NOT the Beetch...... you are the one who cares and sees the need to maintain fair control over your family because you care.

Learn to put the WS babble in the correct perspective. Then it won't hurt as much. Eventually you w/b able to babble back and give him back his guilt. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hugz,
L.

Orchid-

Thanks.

I talked to one of my friends yesterday, and she said it perfectly.

She said to ignore what he says about the child custody arrangements, and just have them write what I think is fair for both of us- like what we had agreed on earlier. That I should stop listening to his rants, and just act calm and rational about it all, and do what I think is best.

Makes perfect sense, doesn't it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and he left me a message- he is sorry he said that, he did not mean it, blah, blah, blah. Also that he is just going to 'go along with' whatever I have written in the D, as long as it is fair.

So if he lives up to that (not holding my breath!) it will be ok.

So I need to stop taking the bait, now that I am realizing it just switched to the kids now, I will be better able to do that.

Sadmo,

If it's not the kids, it will be the dog, if it's not the dog, it will be the goldfish, if it's not the goldfish, it will be a piece of furniture that he is emotionally attached too. Recognize that he will transfer to whatever he can grasp at at this point.

Orchid usually says it best, especially the part about being PLAYED...

SL-

I am seeing that now... I know I have been played, and I fall for it.

I just have a habit of thinking, "what would I want someone to do if I was in that situation?"

I have to be on the defensive against his 'weak' moments. I have to put my wall up more towards him, and not let him get through to me.

I went to the lawyers office, and signed the papers, put the money down. Gave them WH's address, SS #. Everything. He should be served next week. I talked to his paralegal, who told me to drop off the tentative agreement that we have regarding finances, kids, debt, etc. She asked that I drop it off tomorrow, so the paperwork can get going.

I told her that I would like to avoid going to court over anything, asked if this can be avoided. She said that yes, as long as he was in agreement with everything. He would just have to show up right before the D was granted and basically say that he agreed.

I said ok.

I felt almost giddy afterwards. Like now I can move on. That this will all be settled. I did not feel sad at all.

I almost (ALMOST) feel sorry for WH. I am a little afraid of how he will react when he is served. Is he going to get mad? Is he going to get upset? Is he going to change his tune?
I am nervous over that.

Other than that, everything was OK.

The D is finally started.