lao,


It's not always going to be your fault, but you aren't an innocent victim either. There is a big picture here....and you're part of it. To leave your part out....is to be dishonest to your kids. To include your part....makes this exposure pretty unsuitable for minors IMHO.

Monogamy is an "expectation" until you both decide together to ignore it and then you move to a new set of "rules". To go back.....would be similar to both deciding to remarry and redo monogamous vows. It sounds a little like you tried to do that?

So, when you opened your marriage....what NEW agreements did the two of you make to protect your marriage when you put aside monogamy?

If you want to expose the "affair" to your children and use standard infidelity strategies (in this unconventional situation) be prepared for the backlash. If you don't expose yourself....be prepared for her to do it....in a very destuctive way. You guys both have a "secret" and both of those secrets are part of the truth. It would be better coming from you if that's the choice you're going to make.

I think it's an excellent idea to get professional advice about the kids.

Yeah finding a way to deal with it is tough. I could just throw the whole pile of S**t out there and hope for the best. If it was just adult friends and family involved I would do it in a heartbeat, colorful history and all.

My concern is with the kids. I sincerely appreciate everyone's honest dialog on this topic because its so complicated. You bring up a great point OWL. It WILL come out. When it does the kids are bound to find out as well. Not something I want.

My other option, which I am starting to favor, is to not expose and just Plan B. Either she choses me and a life of monogamy or and endless supply of lovers.

Along with Plan B I have also thought about contacting the OM and telling him the whole open marriage story. I would think very few men would want to fall in love with a women that has a history in an open marriage. Hopefully the OM would come to his senses as well.

I have start counseling today. She declined to attend. What a mess huh?

I guess after you have a D day you don't always think so clearly. Everyone is right on target. This WILL all come down as my fault. Of course my WS has thought this all through! She knows I didn't follow Penny's advice 3 years ago. I wanted this dirty little secret buried. We both did. Especially for the kids sake. She knows exactly what she is doing. She will ALWAYS use this against me. Its the cold war of the roses.

I think I am just plain screwed. Talk about a case history in how to destroy your marriage.

Well, by not exposing now, and just letting her go on with her other men and you sit there blithely in plan B...without having done a full plan A, you're pretty much just signing off on your marriage, IMHO. Plan B stands a chance of recovering your marriage ONLY if you've already done an outstanding plan A. Otherwise, you've not shown her the wonderful H you CAN be. Instead, you've let her leave with the impression of you as you were after d-day...hurt, angry, almost acting like a wild man (if you responded anything like most of us do...I did for sure). Why would she regret leaving THAT?

Nope...going to plan B is only after you've left her seeing what the 'new and improved you' is like. Otherwise, you may as well just go to plan D.

Not to mention...going straight to plan B in this case is also a cop out. It's AVOIDING the issue(s)...not addressing them. It's not following the precepts of plan B...to save what little love you've got left for her. To give you the chance to heal and move on past her if need be. Instead, you'll be left hurting even more, knowing she's just continuing in the same behavior...again...no chance of any REAL recovery, personal OR marital.

Myself, I say step up to the plate. Sit down, think about what you need to do, and the best way to do it. If you don't know...GO GET HELP. Go to a pastor, a counselor, someone. Someone who's in a position of knowledge to guide you through this, with the goal of fixing your marriage AND protecting your family.

Myself, my kids were raised pretty openly and intelligently. Even at 12, I would have likely sat down and thought of how I could explain this to them...and done so in a fashion that let them see that we made a stupid mistake, that we didn't want THEM to do that kind of dumb thing, and that now it's time to figure out how to rescue our marriage and family from that dumb mistake.

Like I said...going to a good counselor and explaining the whole situation to them, along with the MB precepts we've been talking about here (plan A, plan B, exposure, etc...) and working out a gameplan with THEM might be your best bet. Maybe call the Harleys yourself.

Normally I would fully support Plan A and in fact I made some great improvements to myself and our marriage. The escalated conflicts of years past are just not there. We are both doing a great job of working together with kid problems.

The totally warped lovebuster in this case is I want monogamy. Monogamy as a lovebuster. Who would have thought? So how do you Plan A that one?

She admits she is "f**ked up". She doesn't want to get help. Why? She can continue to have her cake and eat it to. Now If I Plan B, the fun is over. Maybe its screwed up logic.

Just today this thread has provided a lot of things for me to think about. I was so ready to expose. This tells me I need to slow down, get some professional help, and find the right path.

This isn't a lovebuster. This is a boundary.

The boundary is: "I will live in a marriage of TWO people...not many.".

And you enforce that boundary in several ways...one of which is by exposing the affair to her family and friends, your family and friends, and ASK FOR THEIR HELP IN SAVING YOUR MARRIAGE. You don't expose in anger. You tell them that you love your wife, the two of you have made some mistakes, and you need their help in fixing the problem. You ask them to support you by talking with your wife and getting her to end her wayward behavior. By making it clear to her that they don't approve, and that making sure that she hears from them the steps she DOES need to take to repair your marriage and your family.

She doesn't want to get help, because right now nothing is making her situation unpleasent for her. She's got the cake and eat it too situation. Before you remove yourself from the situation, take the steps needed to make what she's doing painful for her. EXPOSE what she's doing to those that can influence her to quit.

I've made my point, pretty clearly I think. I'll shut up and watch to see what you do from here.

[color:"blue"] laotzu ... what is your current position on "open marriage" ? Are you of a mind that "open marriage" might be an ethical possibility for ~some~ marriages despite what happened to yours? [/color]

[color:"red"]Pep [/color]

Well THAT's been a 180 degree change for me. I went into the Open Marriage as carefully as I could. Read a couple of books, hit some internet sites, even joined a couple of polymory groups.

I love the most famous saying from the book "The Ethical Slut" --- "You don't limit your love to just one child. Why should you limit your love to just one partner? Love is infinite" Pretty convincing until you experience what I have experienced.

They make it all sound so normal with advice about constant communication, eliminating jealousy, freedom to not have to worry about affairs (because you are totally honest)etc ect gag gag gag Its all packaged as marriage building, not marriage destroying, with some pretty compelling arguments.

Could it work for some? The odds of it working without a major marriage breaking problem are infinitesimally small. Men have had multiple wives in many historical societies. What you really find out is that these women are completely miserable.

The major thing that is never addressed in all this Open Marriage crap is what if one person wants monogamy and the is perfectly happy with non-monogamy. Marriage over.

Thank you

From Penalty Kill


No. This is absolutely *not* all your fault. Your wife could have told you that she didn't want an open marriage, that it was abhorrent to her - but she didn't. Therefore you both share in the blame.

At least now you are trying to get the marriage back on track and realizing your past mistakes. But don't take on too much of the blame, that's not productive.

I think that counseling is an excellent start - for everyone, including the children. Your WW doesn't want to go, then you go yourself. Learn what your boundaries are and how to define them to others. That may result in you having to Plan B your WW.

At this point I would make your children your primary concern. Your WW is off the deep end - she has learned to cake eat as a way of life.

Take care.

I haven't followed your situation closely, so I have to ask--is it the open marriage (availability of many partners) that she's hooked on, or does she have one partner? Are you fighting open marriage or an affair? It probably makes a difference in how you proceed. Without knowing anything else, my guess would be that it's an affair now. If you don't know for sure, you should find out.

Its definitely just one guy and its an affair.

I know its probably very hard for a lot of you to understand but during the open marriage phase you demonstrate to each other that you have so much trust. It takes a lot trust to knowingly let your spouse have sex with other men. Its a trust that can not be described unless you experience it.

To have the trust violated after an open marriage hurts beyond description.

So I am still contemplating if exposure is the right thing to do. The complications of an open marriage not that long ago make this much more difficult. I went to a counselor last week and its clear I have difficulty in setting boundaries. Maybe I was somehow living in monogamy and she still thought the door was open, just a little bit. Maybe she started this as something innocent and planned to tell me, but then it got out of hand. We had some communication problems like this during the open marriage phase, with some "rules" being broken but primarily because of boundaries not being clearly agreed to.

This doesn't excuse her behavior by any stretch. But the way you deal with this has to take all factors into consideration.

[color:"red"] To have the trust violated after a monogamous marriage hurts beyond description. [/color]

... especially if you acknowledge that sexual acts usually bring two people emotionally closer ... then it is beyond trust ... it is risk taking

To have the trust violated after an open marriage hurts beyond description.

I totally take offense to that comment... it hurts beyond description to believe that you have a monogomous marriage and to find out you don't.

I didn't go into my marriage with an open marraige concept... and I would never. It was never something we agreed on. Our vows were ti be faithful to each other. So imagine infidelity happening under that concept....

Still

I agree with Still. You agreed to let your wife screw other men. Imagine that - she did.

Sorry but when you have a monogamous marriage and one partner betrays you - that is the worst situation. Sheesh.

and FWIW I agree with Owl as well.

Is something weird happening in the stars this week?

Hey I apologize to everyone and wasn't trying to compare hurt. They both hurt, they hurt like ******. Each and every situation has it's own unique ******.

If you ever were okay with your wife screwing other people you got what you paid for in my eyes.

I think a lot of us "got what we paid for". I screwed up with the open marriage. Others screwed up by being emotionally distance or angry or disrespectful or addicted to drugs or selfish. We ALL had a part in creating the affairs. I am appalled at your lack of compassion.

Thanks all that did respond constructively with some great advice. I think I will just work with my MC from here on out. My situation appears to be just a little too controversial.

Your situation is not controversial....it is a perversion created by you! You wanted your W to f other men....and YOU got what you paid for. I have never seen another person on this site that invited an A into their lives... you did and chose to get your "kink" from it.
Yeah, go find some counselor that will say "poor you." Heck... pay him enough, maybe he will sleep with your w too.
Sorry, no compassion here for your situation... frankly it is a slap in the face to all true BS here for you to come here with this stuff. JMHO.