What purpose does it serve to beat yourself up about the PAST?????

Pep

Well gee Pep, when you put it like that...

Absolutely none, except that I'm really good at it.

thanks for the thwack.

well you wouldn't let me get away with that crap either, would'cha?

Pep

Mom,

If we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

God has forgiven you...

It sounds to me as if your DH has forgiven you....

Just one person's forgiveness you still need....

....your own!

Mark

Well Pep,

No I wouldn't...but then again I seem to know all the answers for everyone else but myself.

and Mark, I don't know why it's so hard, maybe because I don't think I could do the same if situations were reversed?
I'm being a great wife, I know I am, DH tells me. I've repented, I'm doing penance in my own way, I guess I'm just not to the point where I feel I deserve to be forgiven.

Maybe deep down, I like the guilt. Maybe there's a payoff in it for me somehow.

Maybe I think too much.

I need a vacation.

Mom

Did you know that forgiveness is a banking term? It means to cancel a debt.

I realize that what we are talking about isn't a debt, but the idea is there.

Have you ever checked out New Life Ministries website? They have a whole bunch of articles on forgiveness. One really helped me in my process with my WH and his choices.

He told me at Christmas that he was afraid to ask me for forgiveness because then he'd have to face the reasons why he has done what he did (attempted EA that cost him his ministry job, leaving us, not being around for me or the kids during my cancer surgery and treatment, wanting to "not be married anymore" etc). I told him "too bad because that's not your choice. It was between God and me, and God has taken me through the process. I've forgiven you." So now it's in his lap.

You aren't where he is. You have faced the "whys" and you have recovered. I think you owe it to your DH, your DD's and yourself to cancel that debt. It no longer needs to be piling up interest.

PS: I understand that "I think too much" stuff. That's me to a "T".

MomAZ

the sooner you get past the past the sooner you can RAWK the present

everyone that you love needs you to be in the present

you did the crime
you did the time

now do the next step
be spectacular!

because that's your authentic self
is it not?

Pep

I think it has become a habit you can decide break ... I don't think you like it ... but it's just become routine

I think you are a really cool woman

Pep

I am constantly amazed at the ability of people to forgive even the most horrendous things. I can't imagine being in your situation and being able to forgive.

I appreciate your comments. I never looked at it that way (as it affecting my family).

I hope everything goes well with your treatment, and that your husband realizes what a special person you are.

As for thinking too much, when they come out with a do-it-yourself lobotomy kit at wally world...well then...problem solved, lol!

Ok, similar to what johnstwin said...I hadn't thought of it that way, but I certainly see your point.


me thinking again...but...there's not really any "time" that's sufficient for having an affair, no sufficient restitution is there? but I understand you're referring to the recovery work...


That does sound nice. Spectacular...I'll take it under advisement...

Thanks, Mom

I think you're pretty cool too.

Thanks, Pep

Mom, I already told you today; "Mom you da Bomb."

[color:"blue"] Hey Mom.....you're cooler than cool....and funnier than fun, too. Thanks for all your insightful comments from a perspective many of us truly need.

Pep, you helped me a ton when I started posting 2 months ago....thanks. (btw, I posted to your sack race comment on the "I love this place and I hate this place + picnic" thread.

Ace[/color]

Chris, Ace...

Now I'm just downright embarassed already...cease and desist immediately would'ya?

But before you do that...

Thanks more than you can imagine.

Mom

I use to be in the same shoes you are walking in right now and they are a tough pair of shoes to accept.

I would venture to say, it's not that you like the guilt, you feel you deserve the guilt, sort of like a form of self-torture. I know I told you this before, but self-forgiveness comes with time and acceptance. It took me over 2 years after I ended the A before I could truly forgive myself.

In early Feb 05 I apologized to FOM's W, at the time she said she was not able to accept my apology. At the end of March 05 I received a note from her in the mail. I had to dig it out of my journal, but here is what it said. (for obvious reasons, I took our names out)

Dear LC,

The past few months have given me time to think, pray and reflect. Though the words and actions of the past caused me sorrow and pain, it is not my desire to ascribe proportionate blame or harbor hurtful attitudes. I wish to extend forgiveness and sincere well wishes for continued healing, growth and happiness for you and your family. May you experience a resurrection of joy this Easter season.

I wasn't sure if I should reply or not and thought about it for a few weeks. I ended up feeling I wanted to send a reply, so I sent the following.

Dear FOM's W,

I received your note offering forgiveness and it was greatly appreciated. I would also like to let you know I am approachable if you ever want to talk. Because of the overwhelming guilt and complete disregard of my core values I am still working on self forgiveness, perhaps with time that will come.

I wish you and FOM continued healing and the best for the future. I deeply regret what we did and am truly sorry for my part in the pain you have felt over this huge mistake I was very selfishly a part of.

LC

Anyway, my point in sharing this exchange between us is it made me really realize forgiveness had to come from within. I didn't apologize to her to rid myself of guilt, my apology was sincere, but I sure thought it would make me feel better and it didn't. I still didn't like "that" person I became. So here I sat, my H forgave me and also FOM's W forgave me, I wondered why I couldn't forgive myself. It was at that point that I really started to reflect on the person I was prior to my A and also who I was after I ended it. This is where my therapist helped. I was thinking in black and white, she helped show me all the shades of gray in the middle.

It took another 6 months, at least, for me to finally forgive myself. What I had to do was accept the person I was and then forgiveness came on it's own. I didn't want to be the scumbag OW who cheated on my H with someone elses H, but that is who I was in that time frame. What I had to accept about it is just because I WAS that person then it doesn't make me that person for the rest of my life. A few months of acting like a jerk didn't erase the 38 years of doing things the right way.

Every morning for months I had to force myself to see the gray. After a while it became natural and one day the guilt was gone because I finally could really believe I was a good person who made an unfortunate mistake. When I say I had to force myself I actually gave myself a pep talk while looking in the mirror. As time went on it wasn't so hard to look at myself in the mirror and I started to like myself again.

My advice, really look at yourself in the mirror, accept who you were during your A and look hard for the good person you were before you made that huge mistake. That good person is there and it feels good to find her.

[b] [color:"green"] You must not be paying attention to the "torture MelodyLane thread"

we desist when we decide .... hee hee

MomAZ is going to have to endure MORE praise than she wants to ... oh boo-hoo [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well said, LC.

I'm printing this for my H.

Is it correct to assume that as one decreases his/her guilt towards self-forgiveness, they can speak about the A in a matter-of-fact way, including looking for ways to help others avoid making their same mistake?

I see you, LA, LG and other FWS speaking frankly about their betrayals as if it IS in the past. I actually thought Mom was the same until I read Pep's 'thwack' and saw Mom's acknowledgment. (Ya fooled me, Mom, but I'm the gullible type anyhow LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />)

Your grace and classiness is showing, Mom, by the way you slipped, accepted loving reprimands by those who recognized it and cared enough to help you, and pledge to move one.

You're an inspiration and I don't care if you want us to cease and desist.

Not sure where else to go with this, but underneath, I guess I'm wondering if a good litmus test of the "guilt-ometer" might be when one can feel comfortable posting on MB to help others by speaking as if their betrayal WAS in the past?

Just wondeing.

Ace

LC,

Thank you for your post. Today has brought up a new issue, fun, fun fun! Two-parter...

Everyone,

Part I: I tried to talk to DH last night about some feelings I had but he wasn't up for it. It kinda bothered me and he could tell. Twice today he's called me while I was out to "talk" but then hangs up on me! If I say, everything's fine honey, there's no problem, it would be okay, but if I try to actually say how I feel I'm told "lighten up." Then I tell him I feel like he's invalidating my feelings, I need to be able to talk and then he says he's sorry he even called me and hangs up. Not Only That...

THEN...

Part II: In between the two calls I found a new email account that FBH set up yesterday. He used it to post a reply on some forum, I think something with craigslist (yikes!). It was a response to a woman who had been cheated on by her husband. She basically just let him go, no drama, no pleading whatever. I never saw her post, just DH's response. One of the things he said was that he regretted not leaving with some dignity which totally blew me away. He signed it as Dad first, (our location).

I confronted him about it. He denied the email account for one thing. I tried to ask him about him having regrets and he just kept wanting to know where I got that from, so I finally showed him the posting. He "tried" to get me to believe that he meant it as he wished he had handled things with more dignity (no pleading/begging, etc.) but not that he wished he had left. I couldn't understand that because obviously that's not what he said!

I feel like I've worked my butt off for a year for nothing, like he's just putting up with me for the kids. I'm doing all this M recovery (meeting his EN's in a big way) and he's not invested. He says I read here way too much. WTF? He wouldn't be getting was he's getting if I didn't read here!

D**mn it!

Hi Mom, sorry to hear your having a bad night. All I can say to you is hang in there because you seem to be doing all of the right things.
I don't know much about you or your DH, but I feel that he is fortunate to have a FWW who realy seems to care about him and your M and is so remorseful. I wish that my FWW showed as much compassion to read and post here and show how much she wants to help our situation.
I wish I could help you more mom. Keep the faith!
(((MOM)))

I just need to vent. He's out and I don't know where. I'm tired.

He said that I said I was a bored SAHM and that's why I had an A! I never said that...made me feel like POS. I have always told him he could talk to me about anything, anytime.

He's off reading craigslist Bulls*** while I'm here, at MB half the day trying to fix things.

I guess I'm not as forgiven as I thought I was apparently.

Thanks for listening, hope your game went your way.