I would like some input to a response I plan to send to WW regarding a letter she wrote to me. I have posted her original as well.

I appreciate it.

Eph, please post the letter. I remember it, and went back and looked for it, but it would be faster if you posted it here.

I looked at your letter.

The parts about the clothing looks fine.

The part about shutting you out of her house, however, delivers a totally different message.

If you are in Part A, this message is NOT what you want to send.

I read the underlying message as one where you are taking a shot at WW, then asking her to come home. When she reads it, nothing else in the letter will get through except your anger about being shut out of her house. She will focus only on this paragraph, because it exhibits the crux of your relationship......

the conflicts:

you feeling shut out
the children in between the two of you
her living away from you
your desire for her to return
assumptions regarding how each other feels
secrecy



My advice is to remove this paragraph entirely. If you feel the need to say the things in this paragraph, then you'll need to take the anger out and reword the entire thing, without reference to the fact that she didn't feel that way when you helped her move in, etc. If you want to tell her you wish for her to come home, tell her that - but do it from a point of love, not from a point of hurt/anger. But I wouldn't even put this in there.

I would keep it all business, all the time.

SB

Hmm, OK good points. Thanks a lot.

I would like to respond somehow to the point about the house because of the impact it has had on the kids with them asking questions and such. And you are right about the underlying anger. Let me reword it when I get back from church tonight and I'll post an update.

I really appreciate it.

And I would like to post her original so you could add your insight to that. Maybe I will type it up as well.

OK, updated the response.

Typing up her original message to me now - should be there shortly so you can get the full context.

For context, here is WW's original letter.

It has been brought to my attention that DS6 and DD3 are not brushing their teeth in the mornings at your house. They just shared that with me today (March 7, 2007) when we went to the bathroom to brush their teeth before school. They were very uncooperative, didn’t want to brush their teeth, saying, “We don’t brush our teeth before school at Daddy’s.” I explained to the kids why it is important to brush their teeth at least twice a day: keep our teeth clean, we have fewer cavities, makes our breath smell good, etc. If this is indeed true, I would appreciate it if you would have them brush their teeth in the mornings. Had I known they were not brushing their teeth I could have at least brushed Brianna’s after her arrival in the mornings.

I clean he kid’s ears every so often after baths – every 2-3 day, and last night (March 6, 2007) I cleaned their ears after bath, and again they were uncooperative saying, “We don’t have to clean our ears at Daddy’s house.” The ear wax that came out of Braden’s ears was a bit excessive and I doubt I was able to get all of it. I got what I could. I clean their ears after baths when they are at my house, but by no means is that enough or the only time their ears should be cleaned. I would appreciate your help in this matter as well.

It makes it very hard, as we have discussed over the years, when we are not consistent and on the “same page” with issues regarding the kids. Using the teeth brushing as an example, if they don’t brush every morning then when I have to do it, it becomes an unnecessary battle. A battle in which it seems like Mommy is being “mean” or Mommy is being the “bad guy” when I am only teaching them what is in their best interest – proper hygiene and how to take care of themselves.

DS6’s jeans packed in his suitcase for school this morning were too small. I had an extra pair of pants here that he wore today. Had I not had those we would have had to work out an arrangement that may have inconvenienced everyone to get him some pants that fit. It would be very helpful, as well as, beneficial if you could find some time to go through each child’s drawers and pull out the clothes that are too small (boxing them up) so this does not happen again. I remember mentioning this as DD3 had on panties and jeans that were too small and hurt her groin area.

I also need some spare clothes (church clothes, play clothes, and regular clothes) for each child just in case of accidents. It will also help when I have the kids for the weekends. It will require mush less packing and preparation on your part, and it will be mush easier to bring all their stuff on Friday mornings when DD3 us dropped off as I will only need their medication, blankets, and pillows (anything else special the kids want to bring).

Last but not least, I am asking you to stay outside and come no further than my porch when dropping off and picking up the kids. I am sorry if you do not understand this request or you feel it is unfair. I am only protecting myself and my environment by not allowing mountains to be made out of mole hills.

Thank you in advance for your help with the above mentioned issues. It is my hope that we will be able to work together when it comes to what is in both DS6’s and DD3’s best interests.

Latest draft of the response:

I appreciate you communicating your concerns with me about the kid’s hygiene and I agree that we need to be consistent and on the “same page.” I hear the same types of stories when I try to do those things myself here at our house; however I still make the effort to brush their teeth in the mornings and night as well as clean their ears. Sometimes we get rushed and we miss it, though. It’s no different than in the past when we were all at home together – sometimes life happens.

I also appreciate the suggestion to box up the clothes that are too small for the kids now. Some of those clothes have been in their drawers for years now so it does make sense to do that. I already had it in mind to do that and your suggestion just reinforced that it does need to be done. Thank you for that.

Regarding the extra clothes you requested, I need all their clothes here at our house since the kids live here right now. You are welcome to purchase the spare clothes you require, and I agree that this would help with the weekend visits to your house and would mean less packing and preparation for the both of us.

Though I do not understand your request to stay out of your home, I will respect it nonetheless. The kids were confused about this so I explained it to them as best I could.

Your statement “It is my hope that we will be able to work together when it comes to what is in both DS6 and DD3's best interests” is a good one. The kids and I would love it if you would come home so we could do that.

Well I like it. Nice reverse babble at the end.

I will touch on this in IC today and will updated anything that comes from that.

Eph,

One thing I would say is this - the clothing belongs to the children. Not to you, nor to her.

Don't fight over it. She draws you in to the fight with this, and you have taken the bait.

You can *happily* facilitate the children by leaving a "change of clothes for an accident" at her house, as she requests, can't you? A "church outfit, a play outfit, and a regular outfit" as she has delineated. In your letter, just note something like, "I agree that they each probably do need a change of clothes - kids are so messy, aren't they! I will be sure to leave something for them next time I drop by. Of course, I can't leave all of their clothes, and I do know how you love getting them such cute things. I'm sure that you'll have a new supply for them at your house in short order anyway. In the meantime, we will just keep sending their things back and forth until you are able to get them a proper setup at your place. We will just leave the emergency change of clothes over there for convenience."


This puts it all in her court, with the assumption that she is responsible, intendending to do it herself anyway, and that you *know* she just loves to dote on her kids like a loving mommy! Remember, come from a place of love, but end up having her do what you want. If you word it like you are going to help, but sandwich in there that you aren't going to give her all your stuff but give her a compliment in the same instance, it can come out being all good

- yes, you will bring an emergency back-up set of clothes see how helpful I can be? - no, you can't have all of their clothes over there and no I'm not paying for it but YOU can buy clothes sweetie and I know they will be sooooo cuuuttteeee - and we can still work together until you can get it done this can be so nicey nice don't you see


The "no" is lost in the sandwich of good stuff.

Give it a try.

Seems to me like she's the one making mountains out of molehills. I think your letter will be great once you add in the stuff SB recommends above ... although I don't know if that opens it up for her to retort that she doesn't have the money to buy them new clothes...is that the case? I just think you need to make the letter as "airtight" as possible so that it doesn't leave anything open for further attacks from her (although I wouldn't be surprised if she finds something anyway).

In IC today we talked about exactly the same things that SB mentioned. I let the anger and hurt I feel for WW get in the way, rather than seeing that I need to look out for the kids here. I have to be the better person here and take the high road, but at the same time expose the truth.

fiatflux - If it is the case that she doesn't have money, why is that my problem? She is spending the money I give her for CS on her single lifestyle. That is what gets me.


Anyway, here is the latest version with input from the counselor:


The kid's hygiene is very important. We are brushing teeth two times a day at our house and doing ears at least every couple of days. There have been occasions when we are rushed and it has not been done. They have used similar tactics on me regarding doing these things at your house. Children under duress because of a separation or divorce will at times try to test one or the other parent to see what they can get away with.

Periodic discussions to continue to make sure we are on the "same page" regarding the kids are wise.

My plan was to box up the kid's old clothes around the start of spring. We will be doing a lot of spring cleaning around our house then.

I will make sure the kids have a church outfit, an extra play outfit, and and extra regular outfit at your house in the event of accidents. I cannot bring all their clothes, and I know how you always loved to buy new outfits for them that looked so good on them. You will probably have a new supply for them soon anyway. Until then, we can just leave the extra clothes at your house.

I will respect your request and go no further than the porch when I drop off/pick up the kids. They have been confused about this change so I explained it to them.

Your statement “It is my hope that we will be able to work together when it comes to what is in both DS6 and DD3's best interests” is a good one. Because studies continue to prove that it is in the best interests of the kids for parents to stay married and not to come from a broken home, I would love it if you would come home so we could do what is truly in their best interests. I will leave the porch light on for you.

Eph,

I like this letter much better. From my perspective, as you relate you and your WW's conversations and letters to each other I hear.....I'm not sure of the right words....but an agravating and painful communication that goes back and forth that isn't direct but there.

If you each hear some of the same things I hear it must be painful for the both of you just to communicate. My instinct would be to want to stay away.

This revision of the letter cleans up your end as it seems respectful, understandable, and reasonable. I don't hear the subtle digs at her. I understand your comment on the last paragraph, but I still hear some of it in this last paragraph.

Maybe it is the pointing out studies comment or the truly best interests comment.

I would think it might be better to say something like you and I have always believed that it is best if both parents raise there children in a safe, stable, loving home(or whatever key words you both have always agreed on).

Again, just my perspective.

These two statements in the letter:



were added to expose truth to her. By adding the word "truly" for emphasis, maybe that put it over the top.

Just a thought here, I see great qualities in both letters, so how about mixing them together. Something like this:

I appreciate you communicating your concerns with me about the kid’s hygiene and I agree that we need to be consistent and on the “same page.” I hear the same types of stories when I try to do those things myself here at our house; however I still make the effort to brush their teeth in the mornings and night as well as clean their ears. Sometimes we get rushed and we miss it, though.

I also appreciate the suggestion to box up the clothes that are too small for the kids now. Some of those clothes have been in their drawers for years now so it does make sense to do that. I already had it in mind to do that and your suggestion just reinforced that it does need to be done. Thank you for that.

I will make sure the kids have a church outfit, an extra play outfit, and and extra regular outfit at your house in the event of accidents. I cannot bring all their clothes, and I know how you always loved to buy new outfits for them that looked so good on them. You will probably have a new supply for them soon anyway. Until then, we can just leave the extra clothes at your house.

I will respect your request and go no further than the porch when I drop off/pick up the kids. They have been confused about this change so I explained it to them.

Your statement “It is my hope that we will be able to work together when it comes to what is in both DS6 and DD3's best interests” is a good one. The kids and I would love it if you would come home. I truely believe that is what is in both DS6 and DD3's best interests.

Hope this helps some.

MyBad

BS 42 (Me)
FWH 38
2 StepDs 17, 15
DS 9
DD 7

D-Day 3/20/06
In Recovery as of 7/28/06 (and workin’ it)
--------------
Children have never been very good at listening to their elders, but they have never failed to imitate them.

Hey Eph

I've been very busy here in Michigan. I've read your drafts and was too tongue tied myself to come up with the perfect response letter. From a legal point of view...her letter was dripping with posturing for a legal claim to custody. Especially..trying to get you to sing it. Whatever.

Legally...the response you've come up with above is much better than previous drafts.

If you still consider yourself in Plan A...in the sentence including "Periodic discussions..." you could perhaps suggest a time and place. Something to the effect...maybe we should have dinner together as a family once a week, say tuesdays, at the family home where such information can be discussed. Or even go further and suggest the two of you go out alone for dinner, say Friday afterwork...to discuss these things without the kids around. You'll arrange a sitter.

She likely won't acknowledge the "invite". If she does...great. Otherwise...it still looks good for your custody claims that you reached out to her "in the best interests of the kids". She will also likely be infuriated that her attempt to gain advantage with her little "best interests of the kids" letter was double trumped with your exquisite response and invite. Don't drip it with "lets meet to discuss reconciliation". It's let's meet to discuss the kids because I'm a great co-parent.

Mr. Wondering

btw, a long ways back I suggested taking the kids somewhere on a day or two off from work (your weekend trip to ggm was great but over the weekend). It would be a good demonstration of your abilities as custodial parent to take them somewhere when your WW is otherwise available to babysit for you. Maybe use up your vacation time for a trip (with another dad from your support group). It also paints the picture that her "custody" during the day is merely as a day care provider and not "custody" time. Remember...this battle is likely to continue FOR YEARS. Someday the kids will be old enough to choose between the two of you (and they often will use this as a way to choose the most lenient parent as teenagers)...bonding with them is very important and demonstrating that THEY are your utmost priority at all times is vital starting NOW. "Allowing" her to day care the kids all the time only sets you up for the argument that they should just stay there all the time anyway instead of just sleeping at your house and spending there awake hours with mom. Extra time with them over the coming months during the day and not just weekends will behoove you if and when you get to a court argument. Maybe even just getting them and going to lunch with them. You may also want to demonstrate that YOU set their schedule, not mom.

p.p.s. - Sorry about the work review. Your extra work earlier in the year was likely overshadowed by the difficulties of the last few months. Sounds like a "what have you done for me lately" scenario. Keep plugging along.

lol

I meant...sign it, not sing it.

Paints a funny picture if she asked you to sing the letter though.

Mr. W

Eph,

I like the new letter, except for the last paragraph. It is still angry. Couched in citations of research, but anger nonetheless.

If you want to state your truth, then just state it.

"I agree with you that we should be doing what is in the best interests of our children. I'm still ready to do what the experts say is best, and what my heart still says is best, which is with both of us together at home raising them in a loving marriage. I'm still open to that option, just so that you know."

Come from love. It might be really hard right now, but come from love. For one more paragraph.

SB

OK, I'll reword that last paragraph. Next update coming up soon.

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for your assistance with this. I appreciate it so much.



I agree that the kid's hygiene is very important. We are brushing teeth two times a day at our house and doing ears at least every couple of days. We will also start flossing as well. I've also learned that it is best to not stick a Q-tip into the ear canal as this could cause damage, so I only clean the outside and behind their ears. There have been occasions when we are rushed and it has not been done. They have used similar tactics on me regarding doing these things at your house. Children under duress because of a separation or divorce will at times try to test one or the other parent to see what they can get away with.

Periodic discussions to continue to make sure we are on the "same page" regarding the kids are wise. In order to do that I would like to have you over for dinner at our house every two weeks, maybe on Thursdays, so we can have such discussions.

My plan was to box up the kid's old clothes around the start of spring. We will be doing a lot of spring cleaning around our house then. I will make sure the kids have a church outfit, an extra play outfit, and and extra regular outfit at your house in the event of accidents. I cannot bring all their clothes, and I know how you always loved to buy new outfits for them that looked so good on them. You will probably have a new supply for them soon anyway. Until then, we can just leave the extra clothes at your house.

I will respect your request and go no further than the porch when I drop off/pick up the kids. They have been confused about this change so I explained it to them.

Your statement “It is my hope that we will be able to work together when it comes to what is in both DS6 and DD3's best interests” is a good one. I agree with you that we should be doing what is in the best interests of our children. I'm still ready to do what the experts say is best, and what my heart still says is best, which is both of us being together at home raising them in a loving marriage. I'm still open to that option, just so you know. I will leave the porch light on for you.