My initial reaction to my WW wanting to move out to "get space" was to let her go, applying the old saying "if you love someone, set them free". I think it's been a good strategy thus far, along w/ Plan A.

I may have gone too far though in offering to help her move with $ and allowing her to take some things from our home. In my despair of not wanting to lose her, I took her reasons for wanting to move out at face value, and like a dope, offered all this help for her to get space and time to think.

I'm now thinking more clearly and suspect she may be involved in another affair, which I certainly don't want to help her continue. Also, I'm now thinking that she's the one who chose to leave, so she shouldn't expect any help from me and go live on her own.

I may have answered my own question, but guess I'm just looking for affirmation here.

Thanks!

I can tell you that I ended up not helping my WW move out. I felt that was enabling her to continue her affair. She even wanted me to cosign on her lease!

Yes, I think you did answer your own question.

SadPunk, that is not Plan A, but the ContributingToYourOwnDemise Plan. When a spouse says they want to move out to "get space" it ALWAYS means: move out to carry on my affair unimpeded. A person can "think" anywhere, and certainly does not need to move to "think."

So when a BS helps their spouse move out, they are contributing their own demise. WE always help folks translate the "need space" ruse and encourage them not to contribute to the ruse financially, legally, emotionally. Doing so is to aide and abet the destruction of the marriage.

I believe it was Pep who once said, "If they ask for space clear out a corner in the garage for them." I advise to sweep out the Black Widows first.

Hi ML,

Not to hijack TS's thread, but you mentioned:

"When a spouse says they want to move out to "get space" it ALWAYS means: move out to carry on my affair unimpeded"

Not sure you know my sitch, but my after exposure my WS left her company where she worked with OW. She went back to stay at her mother's place about 4 hours drive from the city and when she came back she said she wanted to move out cause she wanted to think about whether she wanted the M, she had NC with OW since she left the job, and she was stressed cause I was always talking about the R or M. How possible is it that she has resumed contact with OW in this case?

And to TS, yes if you help her move, or support her financially in her moving out, I think you are just enabling her affair.

I know I have to become stronger to get through this. My weakness is not wanting to get her mad at me. It's so hard to ignore the mean & abusive fog talk that I know I'm going to get when I reneg on my "offers".

With God's help, I MUST get some backbone and not participate in her destruction of our marriage!

I've actually read your story dev. I would say yes, assume your WW is still in contact w/ OW in lieu of hard evidence of NC.

It's helped me tremendously to have the mental attitude that she is never coming back. I only have suspicions now of another ongoing affair w/ no real evidence, but I'm assuming the worst and trying to move on. This is my tip for you dev, as you seem to be affected by your WW the same as me.

I think it was MelodyLane who told me our marriage could survive WW's anger but not her affair.

Let her get angry. My WW got all over me for going back and forth, saying I could not make a decision and stick to it, I wasn't a man, blah, blah, blah. All fog speak.

Hi SadPunk,

Thanks for chipping in your opinions. Yes, deep down I'm assuming (or know) that they have already resumed contact. Sleeping with the phone close to her, clearing text message histories, the fog speak of wanting time to "think"; these are all red flags that would indicate resumed contect. Its easy to tell someone that based on the symptoms described, but its sooo hard to diagnose yourself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

At this point, have you exposed her affair? The others are right -you should not give in to fear of her reaction because that fear only enables her A.

SadPunk, I made the same huge mistake.

Confusing it as part of Plan A.

I not only helped my WW move out, I got her a job, gave her the family car (I use public transport now) and supported her financially all the while.

Did this thinking that her Affair was over and that I was in Plan A 100%

How HORRIBLY wrong I was. They had been contacting each other all the while and having unprotected sex.

This I later discovered by some serious PI snooping.

Now they are supposedly in NC again but only because I exposed to the OMW with the evidence from snooping and he pulled away.

Take these good people advice.

I wish I had read and understood this a few months ago myself. Things would have gone very differently in my sitch.

Belly up to the task and snoop if you haven't. That totally opened my eyes and in a strange way, healed my heart. All suspicions are thrown out and you get to face facts.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

If we experience no consequences when we mess up ... there is very little motivation for us to change our wrong behaviors that have become a habit

do the infidel a favor

do not stand inbetween them and their consequences

show respect for the infidel by allowing them to feel whatever their behaviors have earned them

be it
shame
embarrasment
fear

whatever they have earned

let it be

unpleasant consequences are what motivates changing habitual bad behaviors

let it roll

You have 2 kids.
There will be times when your kids are angry at you for enforcing protective boundaries ... the child will use any means possible to get you to change your mind .... You WILL have to learn how to stand up for what you believe is right no matter if you hear:

"BUT YOU PROMISED!"

Nowhere did you promise to assist WW in her efforts to destroy the family.

When WW gets mad, have a simple response at the ready .... repeat/recycle

"I will not assist any choice that breaks up this family."

she says ugly things ~~~> repeat/recycle your pocket response

Pep

I started down this path myself, after my wife's EA. She 'wanted space'. I told her that if she wanted to leave, that was up to her. As long as she wasn't running TO someone, I wasn't going to be upset about it. I helped her look for jobs, do her resume, etc...

It was when she told me that the only way she could move out was if she got a year's lease that it really started to get clear to me. She was ok with a year lease. I thought about it, and told her that if she moved into an apartment with a year lease, I wanted her to go ahead and file for D then. A year seperation was the same thing as a D in my eyes, and I wasn't willing to sit and wait on her to make up her mind for a year.

That was the first break in her fantasy get away. She never did move out, and it was when she realized that I was NOT going to sit around and be her backup plan, be her "friend", that the reality of what she was contemplating started to set in.

We both agreed we need to shield our kids from this as much as possible. We sugar coated it a lot when we told them that mommy was moving out. We told them that sometimes moms & dads end up not wanting to live together & only being "friends". WW told them that when she gets her apt., it'll just be a 2nd home for them, & that they can come visit & stay w/ her anytime, that it'll be great! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Well, the kids in their innocence have been a little excited about going to their mommys new apt. Thankfully, the initial apt. she was going to move into virtually rent free through her job is not working out, and she's bunking at a friend's longer than expected. So that gives me much needed time in preparing to reneg on my offers and fight for my family.

How then do I deal w/ handling my kids & telling them that daddy is no longer helping mommy move into an apt.? In my blindness, we've even gone shopping together as a family for furniture and a TV for their new room! They are way too young to know about mommy's A, but are they too young to see that there is a conflict b/w their parents and that daddy doesn't agree w/ mommy moving out?

So, in effect, you both lied to your children.

This is something that really pushes my buttons. When you tell kids stuff like that, they grow up with the idea that people just naturally drift apart after being married for a while and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

They get the idea that *being together* too much causes couples to get bored and not love each other anymore.

They get the idea that *being separated* is the cure for this and that it's good for married couples to spend lots of time apart.


And you believe this is a healthy idea for them to grow up with? That it's normal and good for married people to live apart?


oh, dear gods . . . I know you meant well, but dear gods . . .


DS11 is not too young to understand


If you believe that, I have some swampland on the moon I'd like to sell you


Well, I'll give you that one - you've shown them that you are very supportive of Mommy moving out and of the children moving out, too, since they will have their own rooms at both places.

I really, really hate it when parents try to normalize adultery and pretend it's got nothing to do with why Mommy or Daddy is moving out or why they suddenly started fighting like cats and dogs.

Kids can get a very, very screwed version of what's right and what's wrong when this is all just glossed over and they are fed some sugar-coated nonsense like "mommy and daddy just stopped getting along and that just happens for no reason sometimes".

Here's what you say to kids in the middle of adultery:

You say, "Daddy has a girlfriend."

You say, "Mommy has a boyfriend."

Now there is no confusion for the kids about what really happened. Every child knows that married people are not supposed to have boyfriends and girlfriends and they will understand perfectly.

This will also instantly make it clear to the kids that the problems have nothing to do with them. Hey, if married people just fall out of love one day for no reason, why shouldn't parents stop loving their children for no reason, too?

Yes, the truth is ugly, but it ain't half as ugly as a sugar-coated lie.
Mulan

yep

Wow Mulan, some much needed reality I needed to read. I know, I know, I guess I was in some sort of fog too in my initial behavior about this whole thing. I do realize how foolishly I've handled this so far.

I still hesitate to tell my boys about mommy's BF/A, but I think I will no longer "go along to get along". The kids will have to see that the best thing would be for mommy and daddy to stay together and work things out, not just give up and separate. You're right, the example we're setting is terrible for them to learn from.

SP, if you want to know Dr. Harley's advice on exposure, here's a link to a thread where a MB member recounts the information he got directly from Dr. Harley.


[color:"red"]Dr. Harley's Advice On Who To Expose To[/color]

Sadpunk:

Make sure you get a credit card for your WW to charge her dinners with OM on.

Make it one from Victoria's Secret, so that she can accumulate points for later purchases as well.




SO GET SOME.

My son was 12, and not all the knowing in the world when my W turned to him and said "your Dad has a girlfriend"

Yeah, that was a proud day in my life.

STOP IT.

Tell your son, who can understand what is going on and you can phrase it in such a way that it makes sense for him.

He knows kids at school whose "Mommies and Daddies live apart" and he understands some of what that means. And one day some other kid is going to give him some grief and/or bad information about what may be going on, and he will not be able to handle the truth.... NOR feel comfortable talking about it with you. Because he will be scared and not know what to do, because his "friend" at school has given him much disinformation.

So, MAN UP.

Let her move her stuff. Cancel any joint credit cards, protect yourself financially and never, ever set foot in her new place, until either the Divorce is final or you have moved in. Let her OM help here move in. Nothing from your house either!

MAN UP.

As I see it, Plan A does not include helping your WS destroy the marriage or subsidizing its destruction.
Legally, you are not bound to make it possible for her to get into an apartment to facilitate her affair. Morally, you have a right to change your mind about this promise to help her move out.

You made a bad decision but it isn't too late to rectify it. You are still standing for your marriage. You are still fighting to restore your marriage and save your family. You thought it over, and decided it was a bad offer.

Something I remember from a group I belonged to. We composed a human being's bill of rights. Parts of it read:

I have the right to say NO.
I have the right to change my mind.
I have the right not to take responsibility for another's decisions.

All of those rights belong to you.

Biblically, there is a provision in the Hebrew Bible that allows for one who has made a vow to do something, and then repented or regretted making the vow, to state that he has decided to forgive himself that debt. I don't remember the details, but suppose you make a stupid promise that could cause harm. Like, suppose you are a general in a war, and you promise the Creator that if you win, the first being you see upon returning home will be sacrificed to Him in thanks. And when you reach home, your child comes running out to greet you. This is the kind of vow you can renounce.

We don't always realize the full impact of a promise. Sometimes we don't understand that keeping the promise is wrong. We have the right to say "I know I said X, but now I see that it is wrong, and I am not going to follow through on it."

Ultimately, your marriage and your family hang in the balance. Plan A is about taking care of yourself, working to repair your marriage, and make home a welcoming place for the wayward to return to. Helping to set up an affair shack isn't part of Plan A.

I told the WW this weekend that I changed my mind. She got angry of course and said "well, the law says I'm entitled to 1/2 of everything, and I paid for 1/2 of the stuff here", in a veiled threat to file for D. I told her she can do what she wants, if she really thinks it's worth doing something over material stuff. I then told her that all the stuff in the house we bought together as a married couple, and that it belongs here.

She was planning to help me w/ some yard work, but after that, just promptly packed the rest of her things to move into her new apt., which she did end up getting. Surprisingly, she didn't stay mad that long, or at least is putting on a front that she isn't. I'm very leary of this though, and am watching my back.

I later explained to her that one of the reasons I changed my mind is that I no longer trust her. I know now how good of a liar she is, and that it will take me a long time to trust her again, and to respect my decision to no longer help her move out. She said that she can understand why I'm doing it, and will just deal with it.

I feel good about myself now, thank you all!