Mark,
This is part of what bothers me....can you see how women feel like they are only good for two things, based on this statement? I struggle with this a lot, feeling as though that is all I am to DH....that he could care less if I had feelings, that he doesn't want to have to listen to them, and I end up feeling like less than a whole person to him.
And I sit there thinking, Well gee, DH, you can get those two things ANYWHERE....so what exactly IS so special about me?

NOW

"To me, the single biggest problem in marriages today is the "confusion" about the roles of husbands and wives, because "pride and "individuality" gets in the way of conversation and willingness to meet the spouse's needs, whatever those needs happen to be. What replaces loving submission to the other spouse's needs is a "what's in it for me?" attitude and the emotional differences that we tend to project onto our spouse (if it were ME, I would do it THIS way....)."


FH, thanks for your input!

If I think about this statement, I would have to agree...when I was putting FH's needs above my own, I was ok. And when i started to think more about how MY needs weren't being met, that is when I got into trouble.
And here is where I hit a block with Marriage Builder's principles....ideally, they work....but what about in a situation where one spouse is NOT doing their "share", or to put it another way, not fulfilling their role as husband or wife? What does MB say to do? And what does God say to do? I'm not clear on that.
This is where I am stuck. Do I meet DH's needs without any thought to my own? And if I do that, won't I end up as before, looking elsewhere for them, if he fails to meet them? Or, am I supposed to get to a point where my needs are not important, even to me?

I hope you can understand what I'm asking...it's very hard to articulate!

Thanks for any input!

NOW

Nia, thank you....but that's just it. Spirituality is very important to me, so whenever I have a problem, I always ask, what does the Bible say about it? And that's the thing, I don't know anywhere in the Bible where it says to bring your taker to the table and ask "what's in it for me"...in fact, the Bible says quite the opposite!
So on one hand, I can see the "wisdom" in the MB philosophies, but I can't mesh them with Biblical principles.

I've always thought of "giving in" as putting someone else's needs above your own, and "denying yourself" for the good of someone else....not as dishonesty.
I can see where giving in would not always be in the best interest of the other, though.

maybe you are missing or misinterpretting some things in the Bible.
I love the Bible but it was translated a long time ago.
by men

Surrendering to Your Husband...(1 Peter 3:5-6)

“For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.”

In a courtroom, if you get upset at the proceedings…you don’t like what is going on…and you blurt out…screaming, yelling…in defense of yourself…even if you are right and the person on the other side is wrong, the judge will say “you are out of order.” In fact, if you continue ranting and raving…even if you are right…he will hold you in contempt of court. Because you have dishonored the courtroom.

There are many women today living in contempt of God’s court by their refusal to surrender to God’s divine order. And that order is clear. To respect your husband. The first issue isn’t that your husband is wrong and you are right. Because as we have already discussed respect recognizes his position as head. Even if you disagree with his point.

Hopefully you have learned so far that submission does not mean that you become a doormat, being a punching bag, being disregarded. That is NOT Biblical submission.

The people that hate the word submission hate the definition of the word that is different than they way God defines it. Biblical submission is a willing placing yourself under the authority of another to accomplish a common program. But many women are imprisoned in their rebellion and stubbornness because they refuse the divine order…and God Himself holds them in contempt of court.

So instead of doing it God’s way…they use the dishonor of their tongues to work against God rather than cooperate with God. Only to find themselves still incarcerated in a situation they cannot emotionally break free from.

Peter says however that when a woman does it God’s way, she can change her husband without a word. Now I know that is hard to believe, but that’s what God says. So the issue is whether you are going to let God be true and every man a liar.

Proverbs 25:24 says: ”It is better to live in the corner of the roof then in a house shared with a contentious woman.” Proverbs 27:15 says: ”A constant dripping on a day of steady rain and a contentious woman are all alike.” Drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip…

God says you will never accomplish your goal by nagging. And you ought to know that because you have been doing it for years and it hasn’t worked. Maybe trying it God’s way…

Today the question is very simple as we deal with the last two verses, verses 5 and 6 of 1st Peter 3. Are you going to surrender? Put your hands up? Are you going to say to God “I surrender.” Or are you going to say to God “I’m not doing that.” These two verses calls you to surrender to God’s command to respect your husband.

He first off says that you are going to need some models of holy behavior. He says “like the holy women of old.” He says to the New Testament crowd…you are going to have trouble finding this kind of woman today. With this Gen X generation…liberated generation…feminism generation. You are not going to find what I am talking about…you are going to have to go back to former women. Women who understood this.

We already saw in the last post that God calls this kind of woman rare. The excellent woman of Proverbs 31 is hard to find. It is hard to find holy women. And he is defining holy in the context of respect for your husband. Your holiness before God is directly related to your reverence for your husband. If you disrespect your husband (remember, that doesn’t mean you have to agree with him)…but if you dishonor his position before God, you are not a holy woman.

Wait a minute…maybe you didn’t hear that. It says the HOLY women…we are talking about the women set apart from God, the ladies who loved God, the women who were close to God…you always knew it because it showed up because of the way they treated their husbands.

So don’t tell me you are close to God and you talk to your husband like a dog. Don’t tell me you are close to God when you put your husband down with your friends or neighbors or even your children. He says the holy women of old didn’t do that.

They may not have agreed with their husbands (and would have registered their disagreements with him). They would have registered their complaints and shared their concerns. But they always honored his positions head.

We set ourselves up for failure in this new generation. You often hear people say, or parents say about their daughters…”I have to find me a strong man for my daughter.” Or, “she will run right over him.” Now, you have already set her up to be a non-submissive woman. Because what you have set her up to look for is the weaknesses in the man that she can run over. You have set her up to find his faults and use those as an excuse to take over.

God said to Adam…I am going to prepare you a helpmate. Now, in order for Adam to be prepared a helpmate, Adam first had to need help. God didn’t provide him a helpmate and he didn’t need help. The boy needed help!! Adam had his limitations.

The problem is that we have misunderstood the word “helpmate.” We define helpmate as “cooking, cleaning, and doing all the other stuff that we can pay to have someone not married to him to do.” You don’t need to be a wife to be a good cook. You don’t need to be a wife to clean up…if you make enough money, you can get a maid to do all of that. The woman in Proverbs 31 had maids…she didn’t have to do all of that cooking and cleaning.

This stuff isn’t the primary way you help your husband. It is a way…but not the primary way. The primary way you help your husband is to help him to become the leader God has appointed him to be. And you cannot help him to become the leader if you are tearing down his leadership role at the same time. So instead of denigrating it, you ought to come alongside and help him be better at it.

You ought to be his chief fan, his chief encourager. His chief support system. Many men would rather go out to eat with someone that is encouraging him, than eat at home with a good cook who has no respect for him. The main way you help him is bolstering him up…lifting him up.

But why aren’t more women doing this? Well, verse 5 says it is because they aren’t hanging out with holy women. You’re hanging out with your unholy girlfriends…you’re watching unholy television…you’re listening to unholy radio…you’re reading unholy books…so you become an unholy wife.

He says if you want to do this right, you need to hang out with the right company. We have mothers raising daughters to disrespect their future husbands and they don’t even know it. Because they are being set up to dishonor, rather than to be the helper to make him a better leader. That’s why Titus 2:3 puts it this way: ”Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, {to be} sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored. Older means women that have already gone through things, already raised their children. You don’t go to someone that has been married five times for advice on how to respect a man. You want the advice from someone that has been in the ups and downs, at least since they have been saved, with one man. And didn’t run away, didn’t quit, didn’t throw in the towel.

Notice the last part of that Scripture…”so that the word of God will not be dishonored.” God’s motivation here isn’t to please society, He isn’t trying to please your feminist friends, He isn’t trying to please what the media is telling you…God says “I’m concerned about My Word. I’m concerned about My name. I’m concerned about My reputation.”

I know its hard living with some men. I know its hard dealing with some men. I know its hard following a parked car. I know its difficult trying to get somewhere when the man is not where he is supposed to be. So what you need are some older women who aren’t telling you “Well, girl…I’d leave him if I were you.” Who aren’t telling you “Well, I wouldn’t take that from him.” Unless it is of course violating a higher Biblical principle. God is not telling you to stay there and be beat up on or that kind of thing.

But because he isn’t all that he should be, or he isn’t what you thought he would be…you need older women who are giving you holy information. You need to hang out with God’s Ring of Honor. He says that the holy women were women who loved God and it showed up by how they reverenced their husbands.

You see Satan got Eve to disregard Adam. I don’t know if you knew that or not. Now it is Adam’s fault…the Bible holds Adam responsible for what happened in the Garden. And every man will be held accountable for his home before God. God will not ask about your wife, regardless of her personality or her flaws. He is going to ask every man. But it was set up by the Devil. And the way it was set up by the Devil was that Satan went to Eve and got her to disregard Adam. Her every move never included reverencing her head. He got her to pay no attention to Adam. Adam at this point is passive. He has become the non-leader…because he was standing right there when the snake was talking to his wife. You see, some people think Adam was a long way off. Nope. He was standing right there.

Now, we have a failed man…a passive man, not taking the leadership role. But instead of her passing it off to him in order to force him to take the leadership role, she took it herself. And when she did this, she reversed the roles in the Garden. Her attitude was “Since you aren’t going to be the leader, then I am going to be the leader.”

When she reversed the roles, the snake had her. She listened to the snake. And too many women are listening to the snakes in their lives, who mean no good giving you advice to disregard the Word of God. Because Satan got Eve to disregard the Word of God.

So, then there was a curse. “Your desire shall be unto your husband, and he shall rule over you.” That was the curse. The curse that came because of Adam and Eve’s sin was the Battle of the Sexes. The man is going to want to rule because he is made to rule (even though he is a bad ruler), and the woman is going to not want to be ruled. You are going to rebel against that.

That’s the curse. The battle we are having in our homes comes from this curse. But once you accept Christ, you are redeemed from the curse. Satan doesn’t want you to know that you are redeemed from the curse. That you don’t have to fight anymore for that position of head. But you need holy women to tell you this. Women who love God and reverence their husband. They may torrently disagree with their husband…but they always honor him.

Now, what motivated these holy women to do this? Well, verse 5 says that the holy women also hoped in God. This is the key to the whole thing here. They hoped in God.

Ladies…God wants to know “do you trust Him?” God wants to know “do you believe Him?” Here it is…if you believe your husband makes the final decisions, you are going to rebel against that. If you believe God makes the final decisions, then you wont. This is the major flaw in most homes when it comes to the wife. The wife doesn’t believe God overrules her husband. She believes “he’s the head…therefore he makes the final decision.” No way!! The Bible says for you to submit to your husband as to something bigger than your husband.

God says you go do your part, but you hope in God. You trust in the Lord. Now its one thing to trust in the Lord when you don’t have any problems. It’s one thing to trust in the Lord when he is the perfect leader and lover. But if he is that good, you may not see your need for the Lord. Your need comes from the Lord when your husband isn’t up to snuff. When his limitations show.

Do you believe God has the final word? The holy women of old kept their eyes on God…not their husbands. The holy women of old said “Okay, I don’t feel good about it, I don’t like it, I don’t prefer it, I think you ought to do it another way…but I am going to trust God. I am going to believe God is big enough and powerful enough to overrule this decision if it is wrong.”

Now that is going to take a little faith. So, the question is what do you think about God…not what you think about your husband.

One day a teenager lost one of his contacts on the carport as he was shooting baskets. He searched and searched for an hour for that contact. Not being able to find it, he went in and asked his mother to help. Well, his mom went out and in all of about 2 minutes, she found the contact lens. Stunned, the sons asked “Mom, how did you do that? I looked for almost an hour…and you find it in two minutes. How is that possible?” She replied “Simple, son. We weren’t looking for the same thing. You were looking for a piece of plastic…I was looking for $75.” In other words, it is all in your perspective.

When you look at your husband through the eyes of God, things will become clearer. When you look at him through your eyes, you will never find what you are looking for. You have been looking for him to change, nagging him to change…you have done all of this and nothing has happened. He wont change. You cant find a solution. Well, you aren’t looking with the right eyes.

They hoped in God and things became clear. Look at Mary…the virgin Mary. Mary is just minding her business and an angel comes and tells her “You’re going to have a baby.” She says “But I have never been with a man.” Angel replies “You’re still going to have a baby…God says so.” Now, if I’m going to get pregnant and I’m not married, this is going to create a few problems in my life. That could be a pretty embarrassing situation.

Do you know what Mary said? “May it be unto me as You have said.” You talk about something that doesn’t make sense. I am sure she found it difficult to wrap her mind around this and to get on board. But she still said “may it be unto me as you have said.” In other words…”I’ll take my risk with you, Lord.” Because faith involves risk. There is no way around that.

The question is “are you willing to bank on God?”

When you got married, you surrendered some things. The first thing you surrendered was your name. You gave up the name of your daddy. Another thing you surrendered was your independence. In fact, you surrendered your destiny. His job transferred…and you had to go. You even surrendered your will.

You have spent all of your married life trying to get all of that back. You’ve been trying to get your name back, your independence back, your destiny back, your will back. And rather than getting on the onramp to merge into where God is trying to take you…you are spending all of your time looking for an off ramp. You thought you married the ideal…discovered it has become a raw deal…and now you want a new deal. Many women want to do their own remodeling…and they create a mess.

Let me tell you what the holy women of old thought. They thought “Okay, I’m going to respect my husband even though I may not like what he is doing. I am going to honor his position, and then I’m going to duck so God can hit him upside his head.” But if you don’t believe God is going to get him if you get out of the way…then you are going to stay in the way and God wont touch Him. Read the story of Nabal and Abigail in the Bible (1st Samuel 25)…about how she honored her husband who was a fool. And how God came to her aid…and how her life worked out.

God can deal with your husband…you get out of the way!!! If you will just get out of the way, God can deal with that man, be he a fool or not. And the way you get out of the way is not by disappearing, but by relating to him with respect and honor.

But then Peter comes to verse six, where he selects one particular holy woman in describing the manner of your surrender. You’ve been fighting for a long time…God is saying “stick ‘em up.” And surrender to your Biblical role.

“Thus Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord.” I know this stuff is ticking you ladies off right now, isn’t it? She showed respect in her actions (she obeyed Abraham), and it was verbal (she called him lord). Your respect should be visible and verbal. You’re not to talk to him decent but treat him bad. Nor are you to treat him decent but talk to him like a dog.

It said that she called Abraham “lord.” If you look back at their story, you can realize that Abraham didn’t deserve her calling him lord. Go back and read their story. Abraham had failed Sarah on many occasions. Because of one of the issues and the fact that Sarah had obeyed with faith, God allowed Sarah to get pregnant. So what, you say? Well, when she got pregnant, Sarah was 90 years old.

God told Sarah in Genesis 18 that she was going to get pregnant. When she first heard this, it says that she laughed. She was laughing for two reasons. First because she was 90 years old. You don’t get pregnant when you are 90 years old. That is a biological impossibility.

She was laughing for a second reason. The Bible says that she says “shall I have pleasure of my lord?” In other words, she is saying we have two problems here. We have problem number one that I cant get pregnant, and problem number two…which is Viagra super-sized cannot help that man.

In other words, she was saying that what you are talking about is an impossibility. This could never happen. It is impossible. And I know some of you women are living with men where you are saying it is impossible…he wont change. This wont work. You are dealing with an impossibility as far as you can see.

In Genesis 18, God spoke to her in her laughter and said “What are you laughing at?” His point was…are you laughing at God? We aren’t given her response in Genesis 18, but we do get her response in Hebrews 11:11-12:


Quote:
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” By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised. Therefore there was born even of one man, and him as good as dead at that, {as many descendants} AS THE STARS OF HEAVEN IN NUMBER, AND INNUMERABLE AS THE SAND WHICH IS BY THE SEASHORE.”


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She respected her husband. Abraham had failures. He had weaknesses and spiritual limitations. But she decided “I’m going to stop laughing and start trusting.”

I know a lot of you ladies are laughing at this series of posts. I can hear you now: “No way. I’m not doing that. Aint gonna do it.” And you are laughing and God wants to know “Who are you laughing at?”

If you will position yourself as a woman of faith…if you can call him lord. “My lord…my master…my head. My leader. You may be a bad leader, but you’re my leader. I am going to honor that position as my head. I am going to stop fighting God.” God turned her laughter into faith.

Now I know what you are thinking. You’re thinking “I’m scared. At least when I am in rebellion, I can feel good about it because I am in control, I am protecting myself.” Well, please read the end of verse six, it says ”if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.” God is saying “there is nothing to be afraid of…I’ve got your back.” God says “I have your back. Don’t be afraid that he is going to take advantage of you.”

Now you are saying “Once I tell my husband he’s the leader, he isn’t going to keep it within the bounds of this post. He’s going to be all over the place ‘I’m the leader!! Come here, woman…doesn’t the Bible say I’m the leader?’ He is going to abuse this.” Well, God is saying “don’t be scared, I’ve got your back!!” Because just like he is telling you he is your leader, I’m going to find a way to tell him that I’m his leader.

Sarah, even though Abraham was weak and made mistakes…she wasn’t afraid. She built him up. And what came of that? Well, a miracle. Look, if your husband is 100 and you’re 90 and you get pregnant…we are talking a bona fide miracle.

Isn’t that what you need…a miracle? Wouldn’t it be miraculous that God changed your husband so that he would love you more, that he becomes a savior, a sanctifier and a satisfier? That’s going to take a miracle. And you have tried for 5 years and ten years and 20 years to change him. But you have never honored his position the way you should…you have blocked your miracle.

“But I’m scared.” Scared of who…God? God says He has your back. 1st Corinthians 11 says that if you dishonor your head, the angels will not help you. When you stop cussing him out, stop trying to change him…but instead you send smoke signals up to Him…He will come over, find out where you are…and be your deliverer.

So, it’s time to see what God can do because you are cooperating…because you have surrendered.

This kind of thinking leads to all kinds of problems for both of you. If you always wonder if he only wants you for SF and food, it will drive you nuts trying to make it be about something "deeper." But for him, the SF and food and the fact that those have been taken care of in his mind allow him to delve deeper and look for other things. You have your ENs in your order and he has his in his order. It doesn't make either right or wrong; it only makes them different.

I think Mimi expresses it very well. The word "simple" doesnt do this justice. Women see men not wanting to discuss emotions like...well, like women do...and think that we are "simple."

It is just that our way of expression, what we need...is simple. It requires less "emoting."

Mimi talks about a meal and sex. She has it right. My wife can talk about all day how much she loves me, etc. But what hits me the most is when she does something that shows me this. Like the meal. Like sex. It is "emoting" in a different way.

pep?
where are you? you can explain this better than i can.

Wow....thank you so much for posting this.

I can see now, I lost my faith in God where my marriage and husband were concerned.
I can see myself very clearly in Eve's shoes, too.

THe only thing I would disagree with in that excerpt is where it says a "curse" was put on men and woman. I think it was that God was pointing out what the consequences were going to be, not because He doled them out, but that was the natural consequence of their sin, and it was more a "heads up", what to watch out for kind of statement.

Aside from that, it was very helpful indeed. I already feel "softer" towards my husband....he's doing the best he can, and I am to be his Helper, not his God.

NOW

Gen 3:16 To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."

I think Mimi expresses it very well. The word "simple" doesnt do this justice. Women see men not wanting to discuss emotions like...well, like women do...and think that we are "simple."

It is just that our way of expression, what we need...is simple. It requires less "emoting."

Mimi talks about a meal and sex. She has it right. My wife can talk about all day how much she loves me, etc. But what hits me the most is when she does something that shows me this. Like the meal. Like sex. It is "emoting" in a different way.